Unit of the week Unit of the week: Chaos Vindicator

[Cpt.Danjou]

+++Unit of the week+++

 

Chaos Vindicator

This thread is only for tactics for Chaos Vindicator, not for pictures, there are other places for that.

How to best use the Chaos Vindicator?

• Legion?
• Which stratagems are worth throwing out?
• Any solid unit combos?

[Cpt.Danjou]

I have one, ut I never use it, I find the gun lackluster. Even if it is S10 gun, but still it is only 24", and with every unit and their grandmother can reduce the damage by one to a minimum of one, the D6 damage does not cut it. My meta is more or less LoV and mortal wound spamming armies so the increased toughness we got is not really that interesting. Sure I can use it to screen other units, but then again so can the Rhino for less points.  

[techsoldaten]

I have 5 of the models, acquired through trades over the years. Fond of how they look, but have not used one since 6th edition.

 

The S10 24" gun is like a short range las cannon. This means the vehicle must get into mid-range to fire, which exposes it to shooting. The d6 damage it's capable of dishing does not make up for the risk (in an edition where anything can wound anything.)

 

It's hard to get past that. Feels like the Codex offers better options.

 

Another Chaos player at my FLGS has had success with Vindicators and I've watched a few of his recent games. He tends to put them on objectives, forcing opponents to come towards him. He also makes a lot of use of cover with his Vindicators, creating opportunities for cross fire using multiple vehicles. This appears to be an effective strategy for character sniping and damaging units with high toughness.

 

He has also allied 3 Vindicators with Chaos Knights. I don't exactly understand the strategy, but running around with a Despoiler, a couple War Dogs and some Vindicators on the board is certainly interesting.

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

The Vindicator looks quite promising to me. The change from Heavy D6 to Heavy 3+D3 has made them a lot more consistent. Also the (mandatory) Siege Shield gives a 2+ save which combos nicely with AoC.

 

More importantly, the increasing number of T9 targets on the battlefield (Land Raiders, Rogal Dorn, Baneblade and variants) means that the S10 gun has a distinct role that it was lacking before. Trying to get through T9 with melta or power fists is pretty unreliable and the Demolisher Cannon is one of the few weapons in the arsenal that still cuts the mustard.

[Freakshow668]

I love my vindicator. I have been, it must be said, outrageously lucky with saving throws for it, but it can soak up a lot of punishment, especially if there is a warpsmith nearby.

The iron Warriors strat Methodical Annihilation is also very good.

[Xenith]

22 hours ago, techsoldaten said:

The S10 24" gun is like a short range las cannon.

 

If you think of it like that, which is accurate-ish, you get average 5 short range S10 lascannons for 140 points while with a Predator you're paying 170 for 4 lascannons with +2 damage on 2 lascannons and 48" range. As above, the shield is an excellent addition, making it essentially Sv1+ meaning it ignores 50% of all lascannon hits itself. 

 

22 hours ago, techsoldaten said:

He has also allied 3 Vindicators with Chaos Knights. I don't exactly understand the strategy,

 

I'd imagine that it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type threat overload. If you target the vindis, they're more durable than you expect and you leave the real threats untouched. If you go after the knights, 15 lascannon equivalents will put a dent in anything. 

[Maggotlord]

I love my indicator and I'm about to paint a second one. Though I only play 50 powerlevel Crusade games, which means that T9, 2+ save with AoC is really hard to shift. 

 

I think someone above spoke the magic words: target saturation. A mixed bag of everything will be killed by your opponent because he can get the best benefit for each of his weapons. 

But if you spam units, their life span will increase. 

 

An other rule of mine is: if you really love a unit, field two of them! That way at least one of them will do what you like to see it doing. 

[Galron]

Amazing tank. I use two or three in my Iron Warriors list. Fairly durable prior to IG coming out, put out a decent amount of high powered and high AP shots. I use mine as a mobile firing line with a Warpsmith in the middle giving buffs and healing the damage that make it through. My opponents have learned they have to kill them because even bracketed they are dangerous with the shooting buffs of the warpsmith and him healing at least one 3 points. 

 

It will be interesting to see how the new IG and Voltrons do against them and chaos in general though. That Shadowsword is the scariest thing I have seen on the field in years. Saw a video yesterday where an unbuffed one did 48 damage in one shot to a Brass scorpion and that was after it made an invul save.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Galron

[Snazzy]

I love my Black Legion Vindicators.  2s to hit and exploding 6s on turn 1 is just mean.  The gun is flexible enough that in most cases, i'm ok with whatever the closest target is.  However, i do think the best use of the Vindicator is still smashing high end infantry, like Death Guard, Custodes and Gravis units.  Vehicles and Monsters are a secondary consideration.  I'm all for pairing it with a Havoc Launcher, too.  Combi-Flamer is maybe better, once Let The Galaxy Burn is factored.

 

Stratagems?  Meh.  So few to choose from.  Vehicles not getting Core or Marks of Chaos is a huge disadvantage.  Smoke Launchers are ok, but perhaps not worth it?  I've never found those -1 to hit strats to be worth the CP.  Maybe Confluence of Traitors to get the Emperor's Children or Iron Warriors Legion Traits?  Better used on other units.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I've used a vindicator in almost every game since 4th edition. This codex is probably the best version of it yet. So many quality of life improvements for what is essentially a fairly cheap model in terms of points. Excellent damage potential and can take punishment in return. 

 

Question: I'm currently running Emperor's Children. Does that mean they get Mark of Slaanesh by default? 

[Kaiju Soze]

1 hour ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

Question: I'm currently running Emperor's Children. Does that mean they get Mark of Slaanesh by default? 

No, because the Vindicator can't have a mark. It just gets the Slaanesh keyword, iirc.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Kaiju Soze

[Verbal Underbelly]

Ah that's what I was thinking of. Cheers. 

[dice4thedicegod]

The keyword is enough to let them use the stratagem to change a dice roll to a six though, right?   That’s all they need.

Edited November 16, 2022 by dice4thedicegod

[Verbal Underbelly]

What's the most damage you've done with a vindicator? I once did 21 points of damage to Biorn the Fellhanded (17 after the damage reduction). It was a right shot. 

[Toldavf]

I run 2 in my base list the guns have always preformed solidly and they draw fire from my advance nicely.  

[MasterDeath]

10 hours ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

What's the most damage you've done with a vindicator? I once did 21 points of damage to Biorn the Fellhanded (17 after the damage reduction). It was a right shot. 

My defiler (Last Codex) was one-shotted by a space Wolf vindicator

[strawberry fist]

On 11/15/2022 at 11:20 AM, Maggotlord said:

I love my indicator and I'm about to paint a second one. Though I only play 50 powerlevel Crusade games, which means that T9, 2+ save with AoC is really hard to shift. 

 

I think someone above spoke the magic words: target saturation. A mixed bag of everything will be killed by your opponent because he can get the best benefit for each of his weapons. 

But if you spam units, their life span will increase. 

 

An other rule of mine is: if you really love a unit, field two of them! That way at least one of them will do what you like to see it doing. 

I’ve just started a 1000 point force of Black Legion and got 150 points going spare and was wondering what to put in it. I think a vindicator could go well, another anti-tank unit to complement the lascannon havocs and it’s cheaper than a lascannon predator and has a chance of having a couple more shots than it too! 

[Verbal Underbelly]

It'd make a great centre piece to a small force and at that game size they're hard to ignore. They'll soak up a lot of 'attention' and demolisher cannon has a wider array of favourable targets e.g. heavy infantry. Would love to see how you go sbout painting it; do you have a WIP thread for your black legion?

[strawberry fist]

23 hours ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

It'd make a great centre piece to a small force and at that game size they're hard to ignore. They'll soak up a lot of 'attention' and demolisher cannon has a wider array of favourable targets e.g. heavy infantry. Would love to see how you go sbout painting it; do you have a WIP thread for your black legion?

I don’t have one set up I’m afraid, though they are on a YouTube channel Scrolls of Barbarus.

 

I’ve decided to make my own warband up, the Void Dragons and run them as what I like. I’ve just been expanding from the combat patrol and playing around trying to get to 1000 points and found these weekly reviews really useful. 

[Galron]

After playing a series of games using Havoks and then replacing them with vindies, I found overall I preferred the vindies. I tried both lascannon varieties and chaincannon dudes. In small points, the havoks did pretty decent but as points increase I find they have a hard time surviving long enough to make a real contribution. For anti-infantry, the terminator block did pretty decent and for anti-tank the Vindies did far better getting almost always more shots with better BS. They were multiple times more survivable as well, especially with a cheapish Warpsmith healing and buffing them, easily one shotting leman russ tanks(who can also one shot them in return so bring several Vindies).

[Verbal Underbelly]

Why is it better BS? Because of the Warpsmith?

[Galron]

Yes. Warpsmiths get their buff and if you give them an IW warlord trait, it allows a second buff to something else. I keep my three as a tight moving gunline who he then repairs 3 damage a turn.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I’ve been running 2 vindicators for my iron warriors in my recent games and have found them to be much better than havocs or obliterators, who I’ve struggled to make work. Normally now my gun line is 2 vindicators plus a triple plasma forgefiend supported by a warpsmith with the mechadendrite relic and they’ve proved themselves over and over even if I can never roll more than a one for four shots from them. They hit hard, are tough and survivable as well as having decent mobility so give an opponent a targeting quandary when there’s also possessed, buffed terminators and close combat legionnaires in a rhino.