The End and the Death: Volume I discussion thread

[Bestkeptsecret]

Sad to see that neither Fulgrim nor any member of his Emperors Children Legion is appearing in this novel. I was debating in my mind whether to pre-order this book when it becomes available but I had to know if Fulgrim or even one of the major characters of the EC's was mentioned. Sadly, I have to skip the physical copy of this one.

[Moonreaper666]

1 hour ago, Bestkeptsecret said:

Sad to see that neither Fulgrim nor any member of his Emperors Children Legion is appearing in this novel. I was debating in my mind whether to pre-order this book when it becomes available but I had to know if Fulgrim or even one of the major characters of the EC's was mentioned. Sadly, I have to skip the physical copy of this one.

 

Elements of all Traitor Legions did participate in Echoes so a few ECs should be here

[System Sound]

Some of you should remember that this is book 1 out of ???, So some character MIGHT appear at a latter point.

 

Even though as a Thousand Sons fan, I've given up hope already.

[OpossumStrong]

10 minutes ago, System Sound said:

Some of you should remember that this is book 1 out of ???, So some character MIGHT appear at a latter point.

 

Even though as a Thousand Sons fan, I've given up hope already.

After the Vol.1 announce i was sure there will be only 1 and 2, so 2 primarch art for each book, but then i thought, what if there is a 3rd book, and the art could contain lets say Emperor and Malcador, or maybe Emperor and Corrupted Horus.

 

So anyway, there is still plenty room to finish every single plot, in the worst(or best for some of us) scenario, they can always do more novellas.

[Corinthus]

At this point, I believe a third book is comming. There’s no way the saga ends without a Horus vs the Emperor cover.

[Nagashsnee]

Wow the preview alone drops some bombs. 

 

Spoiler

It contains some POV segments from malcadors thoughts, he does NOT know the Emperors name/true face, he ponders if he has ever even seen the real Emperor . Any and all myths of the heresy was planned kinda get crushed here. He thinks on how they hoped the primarchs would one day be able to live beside the Emperor in peace, how they expected to lose some to war over the centuries/millennia, how they really did hope they would just finish the crusade post Ullanor.  Like the book leans really heavy into the theme that the Emperor had a long term plan, and non of it involved the heresy.

 

Like he is not talking to anyone, he is not writting a book for the future there is 0 reason not to take his inner thoughts to himself at face value. This confirms that things like 'the board is set' are all plans made AFTER the heresy started. Nothing was planned, nothing was staged. Chaos just flipped from fighting the plan in the warp to getting the primarchs to wage war in the material for them and it work way way way better then Malcador at least ever saw coming. 

 

Also Horus claims that the Emperor was Alexander the great and cried when he got to India cause he had nothing left to conquer. Which is just silly for all sorts of historical/warhammer reasons. 

 

Shaping up to be juicy tho, 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[Tolmeus]

Gonna ignore all spoilers till the book releases to get the full experience. Nevertheless, thank you for providing these information and marking them as spoiler 

[Nagashsnee]

21 minutes ago, Tolmeus said:

Gonna ignore all spoilers till the book releases to get the full experience. Nevertheless, thank you for providing these information and marking them as spoiler 

 

For sure, nothing worse then getting something you did not want spoiled, spoiled. 

[grailkeeper]

14 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Wow the preview alone drops some bombs. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It contains some POV segments from malcadors thoughts, he does NOT know the Emperors name/true face, he ponders if he has ever even seen the real Emperor . Any and all myths of the heresy was planned kinda get crushed here. He thinks on how they hoped the primarchs would one day be able to live beside the Emperor in peace, how they expected to lose some to war over the centuries/millennia, how they really did hope they would just finish the crusade post Ullanor.  Like the book leans really heavy into the theme that the Emperor had a long term plan, and non of it involved the heresy.

 

Like he is not talking to anyone, he is not writting a book for the future there is 0 reason not to take his inner thoughts to himself at face value. This confirms that things like 'the board is set' are all plans made AFTER the heresy started. Nothing was planned, nothing was staged. Chaos just flipped from fighting the plan in the warp to getting the primarchs to wage war in the material for them and it work way way way better then Malcador at least ever saw coming. 

 

Also Horus claims that the Emperor was Alexander the great and cried when he got to India cause he had nothing left to conquer. Which is just silly for all sorts of historical/warhammer reasons. 

 

Shaping up to be juicy tho, 

 

Where did you get the preview?

[DarkChaplain]

https://www.fnac.com/livre-numerique/a17739010/Dan-Abnett-The-End-And-The-Death-Volume-1#omnsearchpos=1

 

Feuilleter-Button below the cover opens up the previewer. Also features the Dramatis Personae.

[SkimaskMohawk]

18 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Wow the preview alone drops some bombs. 

 

  Hide contents

It contains some POV segments from malcadors thoughts, he does NOT know the Emperors name/true face, he ponders if he has ever even seen the real Emperor . Any and all myths of the heresy was planned kinda get crushed here. He thinks on how they hoped the primarchs would one day be able to live beside the Emperor in peace, how they expected to lose some to war over the centuries/millennia, how they really did hope they would just finish the crusade post Ullanor.  Like the book leans really heavy into the theme that the Emperor had a long term plan, and non of it involved the heresy.

 

Like he is not talking to anyone, he is not writting a book for the future there is 0 reason not to take his inner thoughts to himself at face value. This confirms that things like 'the board is set' are all plans made AFTER the heresy started. Nothing was planned, nothing was staged. Chaos just flipped from fighting the plan in the warp to getting the primarchs to wage war in the material for them and it work way way way better then Malcador at least ever saw coming. 

 

Also Horus claims that the Emperor was Alexander the great and cried when he got to India cause he had nothing left to conquer. Which is just silly for all sorts of historical/warhammer reasons. 

 

Shaping up to be juicy tho, 

 

 

Good, the Board is Set lead to such a dumb premise and line of thought. What a frustrating experience created by Laurie Golding.

[Moonreaper666]

In Fantasy, the Empire (their equivalent of the Imperium) relies on Faith, Steel and Gunpowder. The Emperor needs three people to do those things to weaken Horus

 

Ollianius Pius is the Steel as his Determined Will and Perpetual Toughness allows him to take a few hits from Horus before Truly Dying. He can use Enuncia much longer than John Grammaticus to weaken Horus mostly by weakening his connecting to the Chaos Gods

 

Eurphati Keeler provides Faith. Her powers not only weaken Horus but temporarily blind/distract him while inspiring the Emperor

 

Basilio Fo represents Gunpowder. His dangerous Bioweapon would weaken Horus even further by physically debilatating him

 

With Mind, Body and Spirit weakened Horus is weak enough that a Dying Emperor, stripped of his immortality, can beat him

 

Enuncia should have a permanent cost to the Emperor, his ability to regenerate forever removed

 

Spoiler

So Kargos has been revived. I wonder who else

 

Abaddon is going to attack the Gate alongside Typhus and Sol Targon

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I don't believe for a second that you know anything about Warhammer Fantasy lore, and that post does nothing to convince me otherwise. The empire's religion is way less prominent and way more nuanced than that of 40ks, with multiple state sanctioned religions. They also had a very important series of magical colleges, which were originally created with help from the elves, which brings us the empire's real tool for survival; diplomacy.

 

The emperor manages all the different elector counts and their resources. The empire itself maintains relations with the high elves and dwarfs (magic and technology), and the other human factions like Kislev, brettonia, and the border princes. 

 

Just stop posting theories and read some actual books

Edited February 10, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[lansalt]

I've read the preview linked above, and I must say that I disagree with...

Spoiler

..."Nothing was planned, nothing was staged". Malcador's internal PoV only proves that he's sincere, but it's perfectly possible for the Emperor to also have manipulated him. There are too many hints across several stories like The Board is Set, Valdor: Birth of the Imperium, Fury of Magnus, Echoes of Eternity, the Alpha Legion behaviour in 30k and 40k, etc.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by lansalt

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

The Board is Set

 

I have to disagree. The Board Is Set was an excellent premise so long as you didn't take it as a perfectly accurate vision of the future. What made it compelling was that the Emperor was throwing everything possible at the wall, gaming every possibility, trying to backstop all of his plans - and it had still come down to the Siege. It continued the regicide motif we'd seen through books like Outcast Dead with the Emperor as a player of games and possibilities. It was great foreshadowing for his (ongoing) ascent to the Great(est) Game.

 

It was a good way to show the kind of abstract struggle the Emperor was involved in. 

[Bobss]

All of those Custodes remind me of the giant list of World Eaters in Saturnine, with 99% of them being dispatched by Krole at the Eternity Wall Spaceport. So... is something killing all of those chaps? Has Abnett lifted one of Warmaster Moonreaper's trademark ideas from this very site? Countless demons? Billions of Army traitors? Possessed Titans? 

[Moonreaper666]

2 hours ago, Bobss said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

All of those Custodes remind me of the giant list of World Eaters in Saturnine, with 99% of them being dispatched by Krole at the Eternity Wall Spaceport. So... is something killing all of those chaps? Has Abnett lifted one of Warmaster Moonreaper's trademark ideas from this very site? Countless demons? Billions of Army traitors? Possessed Titans? 

 

 

Keep in mind that by the end of Echoes most of the 100k defenders are dead. The Custodes and Sisters of Silence are frankly the largest group of Sanctum defenders still alive at this point.

 

Corswain, Shiban and Dorn can't help since Daemons and Traitors are hitting their positions in full force

 

Should the Dark Angels fail to hold the Astronomican Guilliman doesn't arrive and Horus wins

 

Should the White Scars fail to hold the Lion Gate Spaceport then the Traitors can land more troops and heavy equipment like Traitor Titans/Ordinatus. Fresh reinforcements allow them to break open the Gate and kill the Throne/Emperor/Malcador. Horus wins

 

Bhab Bastion will fall, forcing Dorn to retreat to the Sanctum. But his retreat means more Traitors/Daemons invading the Throne

 

Abaddon is going to kill a few of the Golden Boys. Same with Typhus, Sol Targon, Erebus, Vorx, etc

 

The World Eaters didn't lose that many Marines until Angron was banished. If they did lose a lot then the Traitors simply pushed them aside and pour into the Gate while Legio Audax kept it open

 

The Traitors kept landing countless troops in the Saturnine Spaceport and all over Terra until the end of Echoes. 

 

ADB did state in Echoes's afteword that Trillions of people were on Terra. Billions of Loyalists and Traitors were moving all over the planet

 

 

[Vazzy]

Do we know when the preorder date is yet? I’ve heard the 18th or the 25th. 

[OpossumStrong]

32 minutes ago, Vazzy said:

Do we know when the preorder date is yet? I’ve heard the 18th or the 25th. 

Feb 18, BL celebration, gonna be a mess, as usual, but if you take in count the multiply SE releases at the same day, expect it to be worse...im mentally ready to miss the SE book, I cant trust their webstore, it let me down more than once.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:31 PM, System Sound said:

Good job! Im stuck on mobile, so formating and translating was out of the question.

 

As for the dramatis:

  Hide contents

BARTHUSA NAREK! Yesssssss!

 

Yeh.  I gotta agree 100% here.  

 

GARVIEL LOKEN – The Lonely Wolf

I want to see a full blown Luna Wolf, Librarian.  Fire balls and Prescience.  Mourn-it-all also needs to be sorted out.  I think its a deamon blade.  Maybe BÖDVAR BJARKI can slap some Runes on it to keep it in check??

SHIBAN – Khan, named "Tachseer"

I had lost hope for the Tachseer to loose his brothers and link up with the Dred Biters.  At the end of Warhawk it seemed like he was going to be stuck as the de facto leader.

ABIDEMI – Draaksward, XVIII Legion, the Salamanders 

I guess Igen Gargo dose not make it to the end.  Is he the last to know Vulkan Lives?

BÖDVAR BJARKI – VI Legion, the Space Wolves

I hope this Rune Priest can spare some time to teach Loken a thing or too about being being Wyrd.  He would have some experience working with Lonely wolfs

ACASTIA – Bondswoman, pilot of Knight Armiger Elatus

Now that I play Knights I cant hope but root for this guy.  His POV during Titan Death was great and unexpected.  I wish there were much more from the Knight perspective.  

BARTHUSA NAREK

I once had this Vigalator pegged for a Grey Knight.   Though wrong,  I sure hope his fate links up with the Dred Biters, Abidemi, Bjarki and Loken.  If he remains loyal he would have a Very target rich environment during the Siege. 

 

I too am missing SAMUS.  I agree that there is still time to get him in though with the extra books.  He needs a choke slam or three before the end.

 

Also, no Sigismund?

[Ubiquitous1984]

Has the book leaked out yet?  I need to read it ASAP when it comes out so I don’t stumble across spoilers!  

[Guest Triszin]

Preorder up next weekend.

 

Godspeed everyone, may gw website get hugged to death.

[DarkChaplain]

4 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

Has the book leaked out yet?  I need to read it ASAP when it comes out so I don’t stumble across spoilers!  

 

Nothing so far on physical leaks, and the ebook won't be out til Saturday, after preorders open.

 

It'll suck having to wait a week for the audiobooks of The End and the Death Vol.1 and The Iron Kingdom...

[Preliminary Bombardment]

What time again? 9am UK time? 

 

 

[System Sound]

22 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

Has the book leaked out yet?  I need to read it ASAP when it comes out so I don’t stumble across spoilers!  

Not yet. It will be next Saturday, since some retailers start selling it a week early.