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The End and the Death: Volume I discussion thread

Ubiquitous1984

By Ubiquitous1984
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Nagashsnee Battle-Brother

Nagashsnee

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

"most", I see.

To be fair to him, you can skip all the novella's without issue . Maybe even a whole book or two if i am being completely honest to myself. I dont think i will ever not skip the train ride segments of The first wall on re read. 

 

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System Sound Battle-Brother

System Sound

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12 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

 

If you've kept track I've read most of the Siege Novels!

The cliff notes you mean?

 

2 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

To be fair to him, you can skip all the novella's without issue . Maybe even a whole book or two if i am being completely honest to myself. I dont think i will ever not skip the train ride segments of The first wall on re read. 

 

Sad, how true that is. The only important novels are 2nd and 3rd are so forgettable... Although I quite enjoyed McNeil's novellas.

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Nagashsnee Battle-Brother

Nagashsnee

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10 minutes ago, System Sound said:

Sad, how true that is. The only important novels are 2nd and 3rd are so forgettable... Although I quite enjoyed McNeil's novellas.

For real tho, if someone read solar war, and then went straight to Saturnine which opened with a text saying' the first wall and outer defences have fallen, X space port now lies in traitor hands, Rogal Dorn prepares a ploy that could shape the conflict and the galaxy....' there really would not be much of book 1 or 2 he would need to just go from Saturnine on. 

 

Its been playing in my my mind since I read Moonreapers post.  Then again with Mortis, if you read Saturnine and then go to Warhack with a 'The legio mortis at long last was deployed and the Ultimate wall lies breached'. Ok you miss out on all the personal drama and tales. But from a purely siege of terra as an actual SIEGE pov? Book 2 and 3 are...not the most crucial of reads. Tho i have a massive soft spot for Lost and the Damned myself. 

 

 

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Tolmeus Battle-Brother

Tolmeus

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Concerning the Siege in total you are right  but then again so far you could summarize each book that way. The whole point behind these books is the personal drama and tales. 

 

Nevertheless, I agree that book 2 and 3 had me feeling most immersed in the Siege experience. Although each book (not novella [looking at you Garro]) had given me this feeling of being right there.

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Nagashsnee Battle-Brother

Nagashsnee

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Years ago while listening to some you tube video i heard that some actor ( i wanna say topher grace but i wont swear by it) had taken the star wars prequel films and cut a single film out of them that was simply fantastic. So out of say 5-6 hour of film we end up with one 3 hour film. I found a cut that claimed to be the that cut ( tho again i wont swear it was the topher grace cut) and to get to my point it installed in me the lesson that sometimes the parts can be better then the whole. 

 

I feel the siege is very similar. Book 2 and 3 together contain one FANTASTIC book ( all this for my personal tastes of course). And things like the train ride dont need to be cut totally from the setting, just relegated to a short story or 'tales of the siege' anthology where ( for me) they belong. 

 

 

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Moonreaper666 Battle-Brother

Moonreaper666

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8 hours ago, Tolmeus said:

May I ask why not 'The Lost and Damned' and 'The First Wall'? Especially, since these, as already mentioned, are most involved regarding the logistics/ descriptions of the siege

 

Probably some reviews mentioning those two not being as good as Solar War and the mentioning of the authors's styles of writing not suitable for the Siege

 

7 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

They also happen to feature some big traitor losses in terms of manpower. His oft-cited Lost and the Damned get used as meatshields and fodder to bring some wall positions down, and die by the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS to Loyalist fire. Even the Dark Mech showed up for a bit.

 

Yet only a small fraction of the Lost and Damned present there fought and actually died in Book 2

 

Book 1 had Samus kill countless Loyalist and nearly killing the Praetorian

 

Book 3 had only hundreds of thousands of Traitor Guardsmen/Cultists dying to take Lion Gate Spaceport. As stated in Mortis, one hour allows the Traitors to land Millions of troops and tons of heavy equipment so the losses are actually neglible. Daemons have infinite lives so every Loyalist they kill is a bonus!

 

Book 4 started with the Traitors and Daemons massacring the running Loyalists. Angron tanked more damage than a Distraction Carnifex allowing the World Eaters to slaughter everyone at the Saturnine Spaceport

 

Book 5 technically had more Loyalist losses (or at least higher quality units lost) than Traitor as the Undead Titans performed very well. Traitor Titan casualties were very light. Same with the Dark Mechanicum/Traitor Knights's losses. More Daemons have arrived leading to much more Loyalists being killed by the Neverborn. Legio Mortis and the Warmaster Titans are still at full-strength

 

Millions of Traitors dead? The Loyalists had BILLIONS of Conscripts on Terra as stated in Solar War yet they are VASTLY OUTNUMBERED by the endless numbers in comparison Lost and Damned!

 

Aside from the ones guarding LGSPRT the Lost and the Damned weren't present during Warhawk. Daemons and Nurgle Cultists inflicted heavy casualties on the 1st Terran Tanks! White Scars unfortunate enough to fight Daemons without their Librarians pretty much died!!!

 

Despite fighting only a portion of the Death Guard, the White Scars lost as many Marines as they have killed during Warhawk. Khan got most of the remaning Loyalist tanks destroyed retaking the spaceport

 

The Traitors still have plenty of tanks, artillery, Daemons and manpower to throw at Bhab Bastion, Lion Gate Spaceport, Astronomican AND the Throne Room simutaneously!

 

The Death Guard are free to commit all their forces at the Gate since their archenemies are stuck guarding the Spaceport against Daemons, Warp Activity, Lost and Damned, Traitor Artillery and are exposed to the Traitor Fleets bombarding them!

 

(If they can hit the Traitor ships they can hit back)

 

Keep in mind MOST of the One-hundred-thousand defenders in Echoes have DIED at the end of that Book!

 

The Sons of Horus have only lost a few Companies in Saturnine and in Warhawk. Over 100k Marines lead by an angry Abaddon

 

The Custodes and Sisters of Silence ARE THE LAST WALL. They can't fight the Death Guard for more than just a few hours! Let alone THREE Traitor Legions!

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aa.logan Venerable Brother

aa.logan

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Since I missed the LE and we all know how it ends, I’m not even sure if I’m going to bother reading this.

 

might be sour grapes, might be a coping mechanism, might just be series fatigue, but I’m in no rush for it…

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Fire Golem Venerable Brother

Fire Golem

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2 minutes ago, aa.logan said:

Since I missed the LE and we all know how it ends, I’m not even sure if I’m going to bother reading this.

 

might be sour grapes, might be a coping mechanism, might just be series fatigue, but I’m in no rush for it…


Im still gonna read it, I’ve ordered the normal hardback, but I’m not particularly excited at this point. 

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Tolmeus Battle-Brother

Tolmeus

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Thats just the frustration. I am still really excited, especially since I read the Dramatis Personae. And I am eager to know how Abnett read this thing after all this theorizing and discussions

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Aeternus Venerable Brother

Aeternus

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

I don't know what those are lol. 

 

Like is it a leaked version or just an early sale? Because if it's the latter I'll happily buy it.

 

Looks like a full leak of the epub on one of the telegram channels, not an early sale 

Edited by Aeternus
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