Unit of the week Unit of the week: Helbrute

[Cpt.Danjou]

+++Unit of the week+++

 

Helbrute

This thread is only for tactics for Helbrute, not for pictures, there are other places for that.

How to best use the Helbrute?

• Legion?
• Which stratagems are worth throwing out?
• Any solid unit combos?

[Cpt.Danjou]

I am a sucker for all kind of dreadnoughts, but my problem with the Helbrute is the slowness of it, A dakka dread has an underwhelming fire power, if it lascannons were as good as they are on the pred or the Land Raider its shooting might be ok. If it reaches close combat it could be good, but the movement of 6" is a bit to slow for me. For me it sadly competes with Maulerfiends and Venomcrawlers. 

I think I need to try out a dakka version, but have a Lord standing close to it, then it might be a threat. 

 

Cpt.Danjou

[Karhedron]

I think MM and Fist is a solid combo for stomping up and contesting the midfield. It is not a powerhouse but it is decent for the points, does not degrade and the -1 Damage ruel helps keep it alive.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I’ve struggled to get any meaningful results out of my hellbrutes, which is a shame as I’m also a sucker for dreadnoughts of all kinds.

 

they sit in such a strange niche at the moment as if you keep them cheap they are out shone by the venom crawler and if you do buy the las cannon and / or a mark  then it’s getting into the same price bracket as havocs or a vindicator both of which i value more for anti tank.

 

tactics wise I play iron warriors and the hellbrutes are far to slow to keep up with rhinos, possessed or vindicators and I’ve had bad luck with explosions when I’ve had them follow my terminator brick and characters into the mid board while they didn’t do much for supporting them.

 

so unfortunately mine have spent my recent games in the box, and I don’t know what would fix them, at there points cost they just compete with so many better units. Perhaps if the helbrute did have some build base bonuses I’d consider them again I.e all shooting made the twin las and missile launcher became a soul shatter lascannon and a better missile launcher or taking 2 melee arms made it movement +3 or gave it advance and charge. 
 

until then unless I’m playing a narrative game I don’t see them getting much use, which is a shame.

 

[dice4thedicegod]

I’ve been playing creations of bile and I’m tempted by the idea of a plasma /scourge brute.  Cheap and a lot of strength 8 attacks in shooting and melee .

 

(also bile gives extra movement and an advance & charge strat for core)

[Cpt.Danjou]

I was thinking of giving a cc Helbrute, mark of slaanesh so the DA can give it "Blissful devotion", making it a bit faster. I always forget that they can be marked as they are core.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

It’s an interesting idea especially, if your dreadnought has double melee. My DA spends most of each game supporting my terminators with illusionary supplication to the point I haven’t used the blissful devotion on the terminators as they’re normally in charge range without an advance by the time they have to intervene and the trans hitman is much more useful.

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, Helbrutes are a bit of a mixed bag in this codex. The loss of 8-inch movement really hurt them. But the Fire Frenzy strat got better, the Mark of Tzeench really improves their survivability, and the -1 damage rule was desperately needed.

 

I've included Helbrutes in many of my games since the codex came out this summer and they are a decent unit. Not the stars of the show like my Possessed or Chosen. But they do solid work as midfield units that can contribute in the assault phase with their fists and they can participate in the shooting phase with their mult-meltas.

 

In the old 2017 Codex I used Helbrutes to escort assault units up the board. Now that they are so much slower I use them as a slow, prodding second- or third-wave assault unit.

 

I've found 2 Helbrutes to be far more effective than 1 though. One is a target but 2 is a threat.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Tallarn Commander said:

I've found 2 Helbrutes to be far more effective than 1 though. One is a target but 2 is a threat.

 

That is solid advice (although it is true of many units).

[WatchCaptainNavar]

One weapon I am curious about is helbrute plasma when you’re trying to save the last 5 points in a list blast D3 S8 AP-3 and damage 3. There’s the mortal wound gets hot but that could be useful once for the rerolls being wounded unlocks.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I love chaos dreadnoughts helbrutes!

The -1 damage and lack of degrading profile is great and that's layered in with armour of contempt. I think to make the most of their capabilities it's best to go with a heavy weapon and a close combat weapon.

I haven't listened to my own advice and built my newest one with double fist and double heavy flamer but that might be okay. 2D6+4 heavy flamer shots is cute and he gets an extra attack for the double fists, which is decent. I love @Cpt.Danjou 's suggestion to give it Blissful Devotion (I'm Emperor's Children) so that yet another reason for me to convert a Dark Apostle. It might also be useful to play Honour the Prince on the helbrute to help get him into combat. It's an expensive build though so the more competitive among you won't go for it. I'd argue however that it does make a good distraction carnifex.

I don't think the twin lascannon and missile launcher has enough output to be worth it. You might as well take havocs or a vindicator. 

[Zeruel]

I just picked up a helbrute to add to my Word Bearers and I'm trying to figure out how to equip it. The army is very melee centric as you'd expect so I'm looking for a bit more ranged support, or at the very least, a bit more of a mid range brawler. I'm going back and forth between the lascannons or multi-melta. Also does anyone think there is any reason to take the scourge or hammer over the fist?

[Verbal Underbelly]

The hammer is poor in my opinion. -1 to hit and the swingy damage just isn't worth the extra pip of AP. 

 

A good mid range brawler for you would be fist, heavy flamer and multi melta plus a mark of chaos.  Maybe Tzeentch to ignore damage? Dunno. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Verbal Underbelly

[Dr_Ruminahui]

One note, the -2 to Movement with the new codex really hurts pure melee hellbrutes, so in terms of models who you want stuck in early the venomcrawler is probably a better bet.  That said, the difference between the D2 weapons on the crawler and the D3 fists of a brute can be huge - in my last game I had a crawler stuck in melee with an ork truck all game, as trucks have a rule that reduces the D by one for weapons that are Str 7 or less - which all of the crawler's weapons are and being dumped from D2 to D1 is huge.

 

I guess it depends on the matchup which is better - the crawler is faster, has an invulnerable save, regenerates and benefits from all the strategems buffing demon engines, while the brute has damage reduction and is far punchier if given fists.

[Verbal Underbelly]

Has anyone tried a trio of helbrutes recently?