10th co thread

[Captain Idaho]

I'd inclined to put combi-melta on the Scout Bikers too.

 

Basically everyone who can have one!

[greatcrusade08]

11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I'd inclined to put combi-melta on the Scout Bikers too.

 

Basically everyone who can have one!

True I was tossing up between that and fist as he can only have either/or. Regular scouts have both 

[Jolemai]

Everyone is missing the big question here: are we going to see more of your hybrid Scout Marines? 

[greatcrusade08]

39 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

Everyone is missing the big question here: are we going to see more of your hybrid Scout Marines? 

 

not right away, as i sold all my previous collection, im just going to buy a load of bits straight away, but knowing me youll see something eventually

[Captain Idaho]

51 minutes ago, greatcrusade08 said:

True I was tossing up between that and fist as he can only have either/or. Regular scouts have both 

 

Good point. You do need some melee after all and the unit is designed for that with all its anti-infantry firepower alongside a charge.

 

1 melta won't change the game often but the unit of Scouts have a role that will be commonly performed.

 

Yeah go with melee weapon. Good call.

[greatcrusade08]

Going back a little i was commenting how the reivers could prevent overwatch, however ive just noticed land speeder storms benefit from the same strat.

In an alpha charge situation if i can bring a storm within 6" the shock and awe strat could really help carry it through.

[BrainFireBob]

This is something I've long wanted to make work.

 

I think you need to plan on losing slowly. Things like multiple distraction Carnifex Invictors that will die on the way in. 

 

Some ponderables:

 

Is the Chapter Master upgrade worth it on the Phobos captain? A unit of Eliminators or even sniper scouts would benefit.

 

Helix gauntlet or comms array? 

 

Scouts, Land Speeder storm, heavy bolter, powerfist, combimelta, camo cloaks- you can get three of this for cheap.

 

If you're willing to go successors, Bolter Fusillades, Stealthy, and Long Range Marksmen might be in play.

 

Follow up with us and let us know how it goes!

 

Edit: This might be a good use of combat squads- for 170 points, you get a sarge with powerfist and combi melta, a heavy bolter or missile launcher, a land speeder storm, three armed to taste, and 5 snipers. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BrainFireBob
Followup comment

[greatcrusade08]

Hi Bob

since im using MSU chapter master has limited use, eliminators have BS2 and get the captin RR of 1s anyway.

 

im thinking bolter fusillades and master artificer, removes the need for comms array and lets me take helix to ignore wounds. Also allows more utility from single shots weapon in every unit, combi-melta ML etc.

 

I have planned for 3 storm teams in my list, but am thinking of putting the ML in with snipers and having an extra bolter in the storms. My thinking here was each combat sqaud gets the master artificer reroll, so combi melta on sergeant and ML on the sniper sqaud.

 

[greatcrusade08]

Hey guys, im hoping to have a playable army within a month or so, in the mean time i am still thoery crafting.

Today ive been thinking about secondary objectives. After all this army is something that is fast MSU, units will die, i wont hold objectives long term, but can nip around scoring in other ways.

 

(shadow ops) raise banners, requires you to hold objectives long term? hard pass.
(shadow ops) retrieve battlefield data: easy 12VP for table quarter actions, LSS with assault transport rule, makes this very easy.
(supremacy) behind enemy lines: 3VP for unit in enemy DZ, 4VP for two. Possible.
(supremacy) engage on all fronts: will score well early but run out of units. unlikely to get max points.

(Warpcraft) unlikely to take. although abhor the witch possible, 3VP for char, 2vp for units.

(purge) Assassination: 3VP per char, +1 for warlord. 4+ chars worth taking

 

Arks secondaries:
(purge) codex warfare: 2VP for each unit destroyed by heavy weapons with dev doctrine, 1 for assault/tactical
(supremacy) Shock tactics: 4VP for taking an objective from opponent.
(no mercy) oaths of moment: 1VP for each unit, need to be in center, hard to hold ground.

 

Ultramarines
(shadow ops) 4VP, but hold for a turn.. big nope

[Tacitus]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:15 PM, BrainFireBob said:

This is something I've long wanted to make work.

 

 

Is the Chapter Master upgrade worth it on the Phobos captain? A unit of Eliminators or even sniper scouts would benefit.

 

Isn't there a Rules/FAQ issue here?  That the Chapter Master Upgrade doesn't work Or was that a previous edition?

 

Eliminators aren't worth it on the rerolls.  3 shots is pretty meh.   Part of it is I have a pretty hefty eye twitch at the 3 sized units.  100 does not divide by 3.  20 does not divide by 3.   They should be 5 or 5-10.  I'd make them size 5, give them two shot sniper rifles, Maybe allow mix-match 1 Heavy 2 Las Fusil per 5 models, or all Las Fusil price them a little more than scouts, and move them to Elites. 

[Tacitus]

11 hours ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Hey guys, im hoping to have a playable army within a month or so, in the mean time i am still thoery crafting.

Today ive been thinking about secondary objectives. After all this army is something that is fast MSU, units will die, i wont hold objectives long term, but can nip around scoring in other ways.

 

(shadow ops) raise banners, requires you to hold objectives long term? hard pass.
(shadow ops) retrieve battlefield data: easy 12VP for table quarter actions, LSS with assault transport rule, makes this very easy.
(supremacy) behind enemy lines: 3VP for unit in enemy DZ, 4VP for two. Possible.
(supremacy) engage on all fronts: will score well early but run out of units. unlikely to get max points.

(Warpcraft) unlikely to take. although abhor the witch possible, 3VP for char, 2vp for units.

(purge) Assassination: 3VP per char, +1 for warlord. 4+ chars worth taking

 

Arks secondaries:
(purge) codex warfare: 2VP for each unit destroyed by heavy weapons with dev doctrine, 1 for assault/tactical
(supremacy) Shock tactics: 4VP for taking an objective from opponent.
(no mercy) oaths of moment: 1VP for each unit, need to be in center, hard to hold ground.

 

Ultramarines
(shadow ops) 4VP, but hold for a turn.. big nope

What makes long term holding un-possible?  You have sticky capping with Incursors/Infiltrators.   Even getting shot off the objective doesn't cost you the objective, they have to go out there and get it too. 

[greatcrusade08]

It’s not impossible, but previous experience tells me that scout forces prefer “way of the water” style combat. If I try to hard to hold real estate I can get bogged down. I’m better off relocating to a different area to take an objective from a flank than meet an opponent head on. 
That sounds all very generic I know, but essentially I will need to hold storms back hidden behind cover until they are needed to take objectives or use reserves.

I also have a potent alpha strike which if used correctly can pin an opponent in thier dz for a turn, but only if I go first.

lots of ifs, and I’m only theorycrafting til I hit the table.

I really like the value of shock tactics, although iirc scouts don’t have obsec so I am reliant on killing units, my concern is that I’m relying on the storm teams to do too much and if I take this secondary I shouldn’t then take battlefield data snd maybe rely on engage all fronts instead

[greatcrusade08]

Quick question for today.

Generally speaking models must be modelled on the bases they are supplied with for tournament use etc

However if i were to convert the scouts from the land speeder storms, could i technically put them on larger bases to make them more thematic (climbing down walls etc).

Given that they were not supplied on bases..

 

OR because scouts come with 25s would i be forced to use them on 25s?

[Captain Idaho]

Technically they need the original bases but no tournament in all the land would be against an email before hand to ask if it's ok and "here's my pics".

[greatcrusade08]

20 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Technically they need the original bases but no tournament in all the land would be against an email before hand to ask if it's ok and "here's my pics".

 

yeah i couldnt see it being an issue a squad of 5 scouts is hardly going to be accused of modelling for advantage

[Captain Idaho]

Just a courtesy email to any events and you're away.

 

To be honest, most people wouldn't even notice I imagine. When I look at a cool conversion the last thing I think is "ooo that's the not the right base size."

Edited January 31, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[greatcrusade08]

These storm speeders are beautiful. It certainly looks like Phobos armour, it has the same Michelin man abs as Phobos armour at any rate.

I only need one more unit of eliminators and 8 scout bikes to finish the army and then I can start getting games in. 
scout bikes are expensive though.
hopefully should have barreps in the next couple weeks

[Tacitus]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:40 PM, greatcrusade08 said:

iirc scouts don’t have obsec 

Scouts don't have ObSec, and are not troops so they don't get Sticky Cap either.  I'd be doing that with Phobosy units.  They do get Camo cloaks for free now.  4+ +2 to the roll. 

[greatcrusade08]

Yeah Phobos units would be best however the storm mounted scouts have longer reach. Just means I need to wipe out any units in objectives, which is not always easy

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, greatcrusade08 said:

Yeah Phobos units would be best however the storm mounted scouts have longer reach. Just means I need to wipe out any units in objectives, which is not always easy

Oh, I mean take both, and use them differently.  Far field objectives are for the phobos, backfield could be some outflanking scouts.  The phobos can stick cap and run all over the board, the Scouts have to wait for outflanking anyway, and you'll want the bulk of your army to occupy his away from the Phobos, and try and clear/draw up the Backfielders.  If you're lucky your opponent fell into the No Troops Trap of the AOO Det. 

[greatcrusade08]

yeah im really trhinking a lot of people will do that to begin with, will be interesting

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah just think Scouts on a 'Speeder will be really useful. Another combi-melta and a unit to take objectives further afield. The fast movement late will really help scoring.

[greatcrusade08]

I think i need some practice games now, theory can only go so far. My worry about needing storm teams late game will be multifactorial.

• Balancing the need for them early on against needing them later
• Keeping them alive long enough.
• Knowing when to use reserves. The 6" deployment limit from outflank is only so useful if the objective is 12" from board edge.

 

I am assuming when storm sets up on reinforcements step of movement phase, i can disembark the scouts 3" (disembark happens after reinforcements) and have a 9" reach

Edited February 7, 2023 by greatcrusade08

[Captain Idaho]

Target saturation is the best friend of Storms and squads inside, early game. What sort of list would you take a first game?

[greatcrusade08]

I have built a standard 2k list to start with, i can tinker with it later if needed.

 

Phobos captain

4 x 5 infiltrators

2 invictor warsuits

3 x 10 scouts, divides into 3 x 5 snipers with ML and 3 x 5 bolters with combi-melta fist sergeant.

2 storm speeder hammerstrikes

8 scout bikes with fist.

3 x 3 eliminators with las fusil.

3 land speeder storms

 

I figured MSU allows me to outdrop most people, i will go for alpha with 2 invictors and scout bikes in one area/flank. if i dont get first turn use lord of deceit to outflank bikes and put invictors at the rear where they can operate as anti MEQ gunboats. 

I will stick with dev doctrine for as long as possible.

hammerstrikes and storms hide behind terrain and use high movement to go where needed. phobos units moving around on objectives and blocking enemy movement. 

 

I like strats where i can send phobos units into reserves during movement phase, handy if surrounded.

Edited February 7, 2023 by greatcrusade08