jpwyrm Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Can't use Lord of Deceit on Invictors or Scout bike, only Phobos units. You can use Strategic Redeployment Stratagem though, but you won't be able to put the scout bikers in reserves. Also, don't forget scouts get Outflank which means you can come from the enemy deployement zone. This is especially nice fro BEL secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) nuts. i hadnt picked up the phobos thing, ill have to rely on that strat any ideas on warlord trait in the absence of Lod? edit: if only reivers had fists/special weapons LoD would be amazing Edited February 7, 2023 by greatcrusade08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 What's the role of your Captain by plan? I think Lord of Deceit is a reasonable standard, or Shoot and Fade. I feel like he's quite slow moving so LoD is likely the most useful choice for him as he won't be accompanying the Scouts or Scout bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 LoD is only used after deployment, has no value beyond aiding an alpha strike/redeploy. I was aiming to use him as a sniper boosting the elims/snipers with his RR 1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Shoot and Fade could help those units out in a tight spot. Or go for Masterful Marksman, since he's likely sniping himself. greatcrusade08 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Yeah that seems the wisest option. the alternative is to add a reiver lt with imperium sword and soldiers blade and give him ten reivers as back up and alpha strike along side the invictors and scout bikes. captain can use lod then, but looks cp heavy if I am honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) I just can't get on with Reivers. They have an additional attack over Incursors, but the latter have -1 AP and Troops. And they keep their ranged attack whilst doing it. Go with 10 of them over Reivers and save points since they're compulsory Troops. Just my position eh. Take it with a pinch of salt. Edited February 7, 2023 by Captain Idaho jpwyrm and greatcrusade08 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Yeah don't bother with Reavers, Incursors are straight up better. The Reaver Lt is okay, but doesn't have Concealed Position so can't keep up with a Phobos alpha strike. At best you can try a beta strike in round 2 and up, but 9" charges are unreliable. A Phobos librarian would do a better job of spearheading an alpha strike in my opinion. If you want to use the Reaver Lt, use it as buffer/debuffer. Give him Rites of War, Vox Esperitum and use the Obsec deny stratagem when needed to capture and objective an be a pain in the ass for your opponent. He'll never be a good beatstick so might be better to lean into his utility instead. I just saw that you can't combat squad scout bikers since they're capped at 9 models, that's lame. So if you want to go for Outflank you will have to do it with regular scouts. Don't be tied up with your initial setup plan - you can deploy the snipers in the LSS and Outflank the aggressive combat squads. Just disembark turn 1 to get into position and then plink away at characters while the other combat squads are out doing special ops stuff. greatcrusade08 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 yeah i think your right, incursors are the better choice. Man GW got so much wrong with phobos units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 2:56 PM, Captain Idaho said: I just can't get on with Reivers. They have an additional attack over Incursors, but the latter have -1 AP and Troops. And they keep their ranged attack whilst doing it. Go with 10 of them over Reivers and save points since they're compulsory Troops. Just my position eh. Take it with a pinch of salt. I realize we're talking 10th company - but when I think of Reivers, I look at Assault Marines and that's the point I figured out I can't like Reivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 I think we all agree Reivers are not very good. I was considering them in a themed list, but as pointed out, other options are better even with that limitation. Personally if i were redesigning them for the next iteration of the codex, i would give them special weapon options and sergeant melee weapons. With DS/outflank if they can be made on par with assault marines they may be worth taking again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I would give them Effectively Jump Packs if they have both the Grapnels and the Grav Chutes. They use the Grapnel to launch them, then float on the Chutes. That'll go a long way if they then end up with basically ~12" move and Fly. Give them a 1 per 5 heavy hitter Eviscerator style upgrade and they're in good shape. greatcrusade08 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 the first iteration of the scout army is almost complete, just 5 more scouts to assemble and waiting the arrival of the last couple of bikers. I must confess it doesnt feel as big as i thought it would, and the units i do have look flimsy, but thats the challenge right? The scouts are temporary holdovers, i want to convert up some new ones eventually, but allows me to playtest some games. ArielRSA and mel_danes 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 If anyone wants to follow my painting log, it can be found here: Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) Hi guys So in theory my army is weakest against massed armour, i knew this going in, it does have several flaws in taking a theme. Well i had my first game, arranged a pick up game with a chap ive not met before at one of my local clubs. (nice guy) didnt reveal army choices until the day, turned up and he had Knights!!!! bugger! One of the things i noticed is the table had naff all terrain and that was an issue for me, i didnt press it at the time, but soon wished i did. i set up for a fist turn alpha strike, but didnt get first turn so put scout bikes and all storm teams in reserve, hid my hammerstrikes and redeployed the warsuits behind cover. In his firs tturn i lost half of my las fusils and a couple units of infiltrators. I had to sacrifice one unit to stop him moving too far out of his DZ, found the helix gauntlet to be great though. He outflanked one small knight which killed a hammerstrike outright. In my turn one, i was down half of my anti tank ability and no reserves turn one. i killed one small knight and didnt do much else. My remaining hammerstrike broke cover, all of his shots bounced off the 5+ inv saves and only one melta shot went through causing 4 wounds Knight turn two, i was pretty much wiped out, ti had one unit each of eliminators and infiltrators, with single models left in two scout sniper sqauds (MLs) I was pretty much resigned to being tabled at this point, and we stopped recording obejctives as he had taken all but one from me. My turn two my reserves came on. firstly storms having to deploy 6" from table edge sucks, they really are not suited to outflank imo, although 9" away means the melta gets to shoot and if they get shot down in the following turn, say someone throws a sponge at it. the scouts can disembark and get a second shot. The scout bikes were amazing though, 32 bolter shots and 16 shotgun shots coming from reserve was great, i gave the unit tactical doctrine and they took down a knight single almost single handedly (took combat to finish it tbf) My turn 2 i actually killed 4 more small knights taking the tally to 5 before being tabled. so what did i learn. 1: i need terrain to survive 2: Elminators will be shot if the opponent gets the opportunity 3: hammerstrikes are very soft, they hit hard but die easy. 4: Storms dont belong in outflank imo 5: Bikes are awesome i want more 6: Had i got first turn things would have been much different. I could have taken out maybe 3 or 4 knights and held my opponent in his DZ whilst taking all the objectives. 7: Using master artisans really helped my MSU style with single heavy weapons, ML, combi melta etc. bolter fussilade helped the bikes. 8: May need to rethink the HQ choice Edited February 26, 2023 by greatcrusade08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) That can be a problem with thematic lists if the theme itself doesn't allow a lot of TAC choices. 1st Company lists are all too often likely to be outnumbered and susceptible to being overwhelmed. Your problem is exacerbated by one of the reasons I don't particularly like Eliminators. The hard cap of 3 models bothers me both on a visceral and rules level. 100 doesn't divide by 3, and 3 isn't really enough to "do" anything. The Deathwatch Kill Team (the units, not the boxed game) rules actually provide an interesting solution there. Take 5 Infiltrators, and you can take 5 Eliminators as the second half of the "squad" which can then Combat Squad - you have to give up the Sgt/Carbine thing, but meh. Especially if you're going Lasfusil. Another option I've considered in this sort of theme is something similar to a Khe Sahn scenario (on the theory that even the 10th Company has somewhere they Infiltrate FROM). Put a bunch of Firestrikes and Thunderfire in your Deployment zone as the KSCB, then the Space Marines are the Hilltops and Sweep Patrols. I ended up with something like this: Spoiler ++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [118 PL, 5CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selector**: Ultramarines Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Heavy Support Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen + HQ + Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: Soldier's Blade, Stratagem: Relic, Warlord Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 90pts] Sergeant Telion [3 PL, 50pts] + Troops + Incursor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Haywire Mine . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant Incursor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Haywire Mine . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine . Infiltrator Sergeant Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 100pts]: Helix gauntlet . 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine . Infiltrator Sergeant + Elites + Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 140pts]: Twin ironhail autocannon Scout Squad [8 PL, 120pts]: 10x Camo cloak . Scout Sergeant: Power fist, Sniper rifle . Scout w/Heavy weapon: Missile launcher . 8x Scout w/Scout sniper rifle: 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades, 8x Scout sniper rifle Scout Squad [8 PL, 120pts]: 10x Camo cloak . Scout Sergeant: Power fist, Sniper rifle . Scout w/Heavy weapon: Missile launcher . 8x Scout w/Scout sniper rifle: 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades, 8x Scout sniper rifle + Fast Attack + Scout Bike Squad [9 PL, 150pts] . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Power fist, Twin boltgun . 2x Scout Biker w/Grenade Launcher: 2x Astartes grenade launcher, 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades Scout Bike Squad [9 PL, 150pts] . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Power fist, Twin boltgun . 2x Scout Biker w/Grenade Launcher: 2x Astartes grenade launcher, 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades + Heavy Support + Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 75pts]: Las Fusil . Eliminator Sergeant: Las Fusil . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 75pts]: Las Fusil . Eliminator Sergeant: Las Fusil . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades Firestrike Servo-Turrets [12 PL, 160pts] . Firestrike Servo-Turret: Twin las-talon . Firestrike Servo-Turret: Twin las-talon Thunderfire Cannon [6 PL, 120pts] Thunderfire Cannon [6 PL, 120pts] + Flyer + Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 165pts]: Skyhammer missile launcher ++ Total: [118 PL, 5CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Pair up each Infiltrator with Sniper Scouts, and an Eliminator on two of the deep Objectives for a "Hill Top", The Incursors and Scout Bikes are are your sweep patrols, the Warsuit and speeder is your Rapid Response force, the Gunship if your Forward Observer to "call down" the Artillery (TF Cannon and Servo Turrets) in your "Firebase". Edited February 27, 2023 by Tacitus Typos greatcrusade08 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 i like the idea, its something i used to do back in the good old days, with thunderfire cannons. I also like the idea of stormtalons as a way to up the AT. I think though thats probably the worst matchup i could face, i need to give it more time and games before making sweeping changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I ended up changing it up a couple times so the Firestrike/Thunderfire ration isn't what I thought - But one of the things I like is the TF Techmarine can repair the Firestrikes too when you co-locate them. Knights are bad, but I'm betting Armored Company Guard is probably the worst matchup. Knights can end up running out of shots before their opponent starts running out of bodies (at 500 points going all Gretchin and a Warboss you can actually ignore a 500 point knight and just sit on Objectives all day and the 1 model knight can't outscore you and can't shoot you off the board) - GW tends to give out fewer shots per point the bigger things get. Look at a Gladiator Reaper vs 5 Boltstorm Aggressors for example. Or some Eradicators vs a Gladiator Valiant. greatcrusade08 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 There is definitely something cool about left field lists. i ran all grots at Leicester GT after lock down. all grot tanks and artillery, won a couple games too. Ill take a look at the firestrikes, might be worth investing. experimentation is always fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 So where do you stand with theoreticals here, GC? Obviously 10th edition round the corner will bring changes, but theme is everything! I remember you used to use a pair of converted Biker Thunderfire Cannons - be cool to see what you might do with a Firestrike turret! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 5, 2023 Author Share Posted April 5, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 12:19 AM, Captain Idaho said: So where do you stand with theoreticals here, GC? Obviously 10th edition round the corner will bring changes, but theme is everything! I remember you used to use a pair of converted Biker Thunderfire Cannons - be cool to see what you might do with a Firestrike turret! Im generally holding fire until i know how 10th affects the list and playstyle. im hoping once the first games start being played i can hit the ground running. The new way to build armies is interesting, but still limiting under the rule of three (is this still a thing?) In terms of HQ choice, im not sold on a one shot captain, I think i need a combat character of some kind, something to keep up with the speed of my glass hammer units. Maybe i should try the librarian, or perhaps look at other options like a jump pack or bike riding hammer wielding nutter. I am thinking that the aegis defence line was purpose built for my sniper units, maybe an aegis line and firestrike combo is on the cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Yeah waiting until 10th will be important. Especially where we need to see where our dangerous guns and opponents are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 The changes to vehicles makes my lack of heavy weapons a serious handicap, be interesting to see what else changes in 10th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) Yeah it's an old problem you used to have with Scouts back to the fore eh. Melta appearing to be wouding heavier tanks and vehicles on a 5+, with apparent changes to combi-weapons too, might make the whole prospect seriously undermined. Edited April 25, 2023 by Captain Idaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 seems to be the armour edition. just hope scouts become battleline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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