Sanguinius Returning, or Sanguinor Ascended Daemon of the Emperor

[jaxom]

Everyone seems to have taken it as gospel that the Lion is coming back, and now the vultures circle about Sanguinius. Will he return as well?

[Gamiel]

I don't think the Lion will be returning, at least not until some notable time has passed after Angron's realise.

 

Sanguinius will not return. Can se the Sanguinor getting a new sculpt but don't know if he will get a power up with it.

[Orange Knight]

I think that the Lion is indeed returning, and that the loyalist Primarch after that will be Leman Russ.

 

The Blood Angels have the Sanguinor, who can fill the gap of Primarch-level character that inspires on the tabletop whilst cleaving his way through enemies.

The Sanguinor's story and identity can be expanded to be the "Avatar of Sanguinius" without any ambiguity. The Primarch has now made an appearance in two very current 40k novels - both times appearing before notable Blood Angels as their souls were fading into, or traversing the warp.

The Sanguinor can have all the same rules and auras as a Primarch on the tabletop, but would still be an ethereal presence that only appears rarely in the lore, as an example.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Sanguinius is going to return to the universe in some major way, and it seems ignorant to deny it at this point, as he’s already been present or active in novels.

[lansalt]

We've only seen Sanguinius in visions like at the end of Devastation of Baal. Unlike Guilliman or the Lion who were always alive all this time (just in stasis/sleeping), Sanguinius death is a cornerstone of the setting and the Imperium. It not just about being dead, it's also about him becoming alive again is thematically End of Times stuff, orders of magnitude above all the other primarchs except Horus, and we know how endedthat particular attempt at bringing back a 30k character over his thematic 40k equivalent.

 

40k BA have also already their own story arc as seen in the Mephiston books. Sanguinius cannot be part of that, except as a lost father figure that appears sometimes in visions. The BA have more than enough with Dante, Mephiston and the Sanguinor.

 

38 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I think that the Lion is indeed returning, and that the loyalist Primarch after that will be Leman Russ.

 

The Wolftime novel was basically GW telling us that Leman Russ is not ready to come back yet. There are other possible candidates, even Clonegrim if Fulgrim is released along an EC refresh in the future (he's pretty much the only guaranteed primarch to get a mini, IMO)

Edited February 2, 2023 by lansalt

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

Everyone seems to have taken it as gospel that the Lion is coming back, and now the vultures circle about Sanguinius. Will he return as well?

I think all of the Big 3 will get their Primarch (or equivalent, aka Sanguinor as a stand in for Sanguinius.). Together with Bobby G that'll make 4 that will counter balance the 4 deamon primarchs with models (noone's seriously doubting that Fulgrim will be coming eventually, right?)

 

The order of the Loyalists will be Lion, Sanguinor, Russ, which means the latter is still years off. It's been over half a decade already since Roboute came back to put into perspective.

[Madao]

And what about Dorn sitting on the Emperor's lap in the Imperial Palace, wearing the centurion armour?  Joking aside, I think he is quite probable loyalist primarch to be released

[Brother Captain Arkley]

In that book where Mephiston is having fun times with Two "Angels", its made clear its not Sanguinius but maybe some amalgam of his spirit.

 

I am for him returning but I think it has to be as a Greater Daemon of the Emperor.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I think possibly as an Avatar of the black rage.. but more golden

[Gamiel]

I rather see the return of Ferrus Manus

 

As the leader of the Legion of the Damned :

Pic by the way of https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryWarhammer/comments/lfz06h/ferrus_manus_legion_of_the_damned_in_40k_by_me/

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Gamiel

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Brother Captain Arkley said:

In that book where Mephiston is having fun times with Two "Angels", its made clear its not Sanguinius but maybe some amalgam of his spirit.

 

I am for him returning but I think it has to be as a Greater Daemon of the Emperor.

 

When he is in the Warp he interacts with what appears to be a decrepit old man, but it later transpires that it's actually Sanguinius in disguise, who goes on to have some significant interaction with Mephiston. 

[MARK0SIAN]

I kind of hope he doesn’t come back. As Iansalt says, his death is such an integral part of the lore of the imperium and the nature of the Blood Angels that bringing him back would feel like they took ‘and they woke up and it was all a dream’ to a new level!

[Brother Captain Arkley]

12 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

When he is in the Warp he interacts with what appears to be a decrepit old man, but it later transpires that it's actually Sanguinius in disguise, who goes on to have some significant interaction with Mephiston. 

Maybe its Dante I am thinking about then... I know one had interaction with something.

[Toxichobbit]

I'm with those who don't want him to come back. Let the dead rest. Sanquinius' sacrifice would be pretty meaningless if he just came back. As would the Black Rage, as I can't see the BA still getting visions of his death when he's alive again. Both of these are so important to who the Blood Angels (and their Successors) are, that I'd go so far as to say his return would ruin the faction.

 

Sanquinor getting a power boost and new model to make him more like an Avatar or Daemon, that I could get behind.

[jaxom]

I like a trinitarian perspective, where Warp-Sanguinius, Sanguinor, and Mephiston (the Incarnate Black Rage) are all the same being a la Thomas Aquinas.

[The Unseen]

The Sanguinor getting a new model and Primarchish tier rules would be the only acceptable way of having a "Sanguinius" in 40k. The recent novels have made it clear that the Sanguinor is incredibly powerful, and far removed from his mortal origins. (If you go with the implied theory that he's the Herald of Sanguinius from the Ruinstorm novels)
Sanguinius is dead, and should stay that way.

[Sugarlessllama]

I think if the Angel was going to come back, then he would have come back during the Devastation of Baal. If that event couldn't bring him back to aid his sons, then nothing will.

[Triszin]

He dead.

 

 

[Brother Captain Arkley]

14 minutes ago, Triszin said:

He dead.

 

 

Couldn't resist.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I kind of hope he doesn’t come back. As Iansalt says, his death is such an integral part of the lore of the imperium and the nature of the Blood Angels that bringing him back would feel like they took ‘and they woke up and it was all a dream’ to a new level!

Except bringing them back does nothing to change any of that old lore.

 

it doesn’t end the black rage. It in no way undermines the sacrifice unless he also had a vision that he’d be resurrected. That’s the only way GW can detract from his sacrifice 

 

14 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

I'm with those who don't want him to come back. Let the dead rest. Sanquinius' sacrifice would be pretty meaningless if he just came back. As would the Black Rage, as I can't see the BA still getting visions of his death when he's alive again. Both of these are so important to who the Blood Angels (and their Successors) are, that I'd go so far as to say his return would ruin the faction.

 

Sanquinor getting a power boost and new model to make him more like an Avatar or Daemon, that I could get behind.

Why would his death be meaningless?

he saw a vision of his death at horus’ hands. That happened, and bringing him back doesn’t effect that sacrifice unless they wrote that he knew he’d be coming back at some point and there’s no reason to believe the black rage would go away. The psychic trauma of his death wouldn’t be erased. It might even mean that sanguinius returns with the black rage.

9 hours ago, Triszin said:

He dead.

 

 

 

[Lord_Ikka]

3 hours ago, The Unseen said:

The Sanguinor getting a new model and Primarchish tier rules would be the only acceptable way of having a "Sanguinius" in 40k. The recent novels have made it clear that the Sanguinor is incredibly powerful, and far removed from his mortal origins. (If you go with the implied theory that he's the Herald of Sanguinius from the Ruinstorm novels)
Sanguinius is dead, and should stay that way.

Agreed. With the Sanguinor, appropriately upsized and given better rules, there isn't a need for Sanguinius himself and there is no real fluff need for him to come back. Having the Sanguinor as an "Imperial Daemon" gives the BA both another good character/centerpiece and a unique unit in terms of what he is.

[Scribe]

Please Khorne, let the SoT series end before Sanguinius returns so I never have to bear witness such a horrible mutilation of a once great setting...

[Special Officer Doofy]

Let the dead primarchs stay dead. What's the point of story telling at all if it's just going to be retconned down the road.

[The Unseen]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Why would his death be meaningless?

he saw a vision of his death at horus’ hands. That happened, and bringing him back doesn’t effect that sacrifice unless they wrote that he knew he’d be coming back at some point and there’s no reason to believe the black rage would go away. The psychic trauma of his death wouldn’t be erased. It might even mean that sanguinius returns with the black rage.

 

So let me get this straight, you don't find it narratively bankrupt to have the father figure who's death literally caused psychic PTSD to his sons for 10,000 years to just... Pop back up? And not even at the literal once in 10,000 year event where almost every Blood Angel and Successor were gathered AT his homeworld, fighting just above his body stored in stasis, when they were a hairs breadth from being eradicated completely by Hive Fleet Leviathan, but only *after* said event. I am reminded that as bad as some of the writing and decisions coming out of GW/BL it could be so very much worse.

 

It'd be like in Christian Mythology; Jesus just sorta comes back, not to bring about the apocolypse or whatever, just randomly is discovered in the middle east as a carpenter again, with all the miracles but none of the narrative weight. Also, how the hell would Sanguinius have the Black Rage? That makes 0 sense.

 

"My father's death at the hands of Horus has haunted my chapter for 10 millenia, his life and sacrifice gave us an example to forever strive for. In moments of great stress we relive his last days and go insane." "What are you talking about dude, Sanguinius is right over there."

[Vermintide]

If Sanguinius does return, then I mean, what the hell, may as well have Big E get up and start owning noobs too. Yeah yeah astronomicon, eye of terror, whatever. C'mon, we've had 25 years of that boring old corpse emperor shtick, it couldn't hurt to change things up, right? The narrative need to advance.