10th Edition Codex unit Wishlist!

[Tacitus]

Less a unit wish and more of a army building one:

 

I'd like each faction to have at least two distinctly different viable build options - for example the 50 base statline Demi Company or the 30ish tougher statline model list filled with Terminators/Gravis.  Iyanden doing Pirates of the Guardians, or Guardians of the Wraithbone.  Big Bugs, Little Bugs, Big AND Little Bugs. 

 

I'd like each subfaction to have at least one AOR in their codex/supplement that breaks the FOC.  DA- Double Wing, BA Assault Marines as troops with more Jump Packers and Termies/Dreads/Speeders.  UM Spear of Macragge.  Wild Riders of Saim-hann.  

 

Maybe make a DIY AOR based on your DIY Chapter/Craftworld choices.  If you picked Trait A and Trait G you get these AOR rules - this could also offset good/bad traits with good/bad AOR DIY.

 

It would have a number of benefits. 

 

• Reward a fluffy AOR by giving a UM "Codex Coordination" AOR with 3 Tacticals, 1 Assault, and 1 Devastator the "Combined Arms" special rule that makes each of the three better because you have the other two or something - they should be minor but worthwhile benefits.
• Help with army construction for new to game/faction players
• Encourage variety
• Smooth out rigidity of the BRB FOC

[Tacitus]

Some other things I've been kicking around:

 

Change BLAST and create an offset for units bigger than 5 - The Deslotators look like they're headed that direction - borrowing from the Damage changes of X+DY.  They get X plus DX shots.

 

Part of that offset should be some sort of boost for larger units - extra armor save, extra shots, extra accuracy, extra Obsec whatever.

 

Part of that offset should also push Marines into take the full 10.  Make the 5 to 10 units into 5 or 10 units.  Make 3 and only 3 units, 5 and only 5.  Make the 3-6 units either always 5, or 5 or 10 (depending on the unit) - only allow Sgt Upgrades until you're at 10.  Stuff like that.

 

Bring back the "Veteran" who can lead the other combat squad - or benefit from the Weight of Numbers offset as a second hidden powerfist/etc.  Give them the same Upgrade path as a Sergeant.

 

Right now everything pushes MSU.  BLAST, (only one) free Sgt, Upgrade path, Morale phase, and so on.   

 

At 2,000 points I'd like to see a Full Company being a viable list:  1 Cap, 1 Chap, 2 LT's, 60 Intercessor/Tactical/Infiltrators, 20 AssaultSquad/Reivers/AssaultIntercessors/Incursors 20 Devs/Aggressros/Erads/Hellblasters/Desolators

[Djangomatic82]

I'd like it if they changed Multi-Melta's. Having them be Heavy 2 and 24" makes them a little too good, creating a chilling effect on the rest of the Anti Armour weapons we have.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the damage output, i think that is okay for what they are supposed to be, but their range is too long and they have too many shots.

Change them to Heavy 1, 12" and D6+6/D6+10 in half range and i think they slot right back into where they are supposed to be, extremely brutal in close range, but that is a real point of consideration getting them within 12" or 6" reliably.

[Tacitus]

That's too much damage.  And they went up in shots because of Lascannon.  24" to syergize with the Bolter Marines in a Tac Squad is also nice.  You also have to balance their shorter range with the Lascannon longer range.  Multi Meltas are pretty close to the right spot compared to everything else.  There are a few other things that probably are lagging behind MM that makes MM seem off.   The new Desloators may even contribute with their SuperKrak.   D3+3 vs D6+2 Sometimes feels like a slight edge to the SuperKrak. 

 

One of the problems with MM is that

A) It was the FOTM of the last edition

B) It's the "best" choice for Primaris INFANTRY - Eliminators (3 and only 3) are too small of a unit for Lasfusil making a difference, Hellblasters need to OC for more than D1, Desolators aren't out yet, and will probably be too expensive on a PPM basis. Make Eliminators 5-10 (and 23-25 or so PPM) and/or Desolators 25PPM with Hellblasters hanging out around 23 - This should be similar to Devs being 5 points higher than Tacs, so the Primaris 5 higher than Intercessor/Infiltrator body they're based off. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Find as time goes on that what tops any wishlist i could have is something as inane as a primaris scout kit/kill team. Cant finish my current army without one. Heck just a single primaris scout character would increase the number of poses i can work with by 50%....

Edited February 28, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[XeonDragon]

Re: Multi-meltas and balance with other AT weapons, I'd like to see:

1. MM go to 18" range, stays as is in terms of damage.
2. Plasma weapons all to go up by 1 damage (i.e. base is 2 +1 if overcharged) and to do mortal wounds on 1s, not auto-kill infantry models with them.
3. Las cannons to go to D3+3 damage.
4. Krak missiles to either go to D3+3 damage (unlikely given the new "super krak" missiles) or roll 2d6, take the highest. 
5. Grav cannons to maybe do mortal wounds on 6s to wound against targets with >3+ save as well as current D2 vs such targets.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why nerf MM ?

[WrathOfTheLion]

There's a good chance both Dark Angels and Blood Angels will have a decent range release next edition I think. I'd suspect a bike captain will be at least a DA specific kit for the Ravenwing, although that doesn't preclude it from coming to all chapters. I just think in particular they'll do a bike HQ for any DA range release, that probably covers a good bit of ground.

 

For characters, if not talking big chapters like DA/BA/UM/SW, I'd really like to see Gabriel Seth redone.

 

Updated with current rumors, Terminator HQs sounds pretty likely, and the Sternguard like unit on your list I think has gone up to 'good'.

Edited March 2, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[XeonDragon]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:31 AM, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Why nerf MM ?

 

I think reducing the range might help balance it against plasma and grav, assuming of course the reduced table size adopted in 9th remains for 10th. It would be lethal, but you'd need to get proper close, moreso than now. It might make plasma, grav and missile a little more viable. It would still be the king of damage output :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’d be fairly useless at that range. It is a heavy weapon after all.

[XeonDragon]

Maybe on infantry, but on land speeders and other fast units, I'm not sure much would change. 

[Guest Triszin]

I'll say it again.

 

Reivers:

 

A.
 move to troop slot.

 

Or

B.

Give them better rules, power weapons, rad grenades, and a upgrade sprue with volkite equipment

 

[XeonDragon]

On 2/7/2023 at 8:49 PM, Captain Idaho said:

• biggest controversy... bring in new Firstborn. If you're not dropping them, bring in new models for them. If you want a new aesthetic, make it Errant armour. The Deathwatch Marines looked great and I actually used some of them for basis of kitbashes for characters and they look amazing.

 ^ THIS :D

[XeonDragon]

7 hours ago, Triszin said:

I'll say it again.

 

Reivers:

 

A.
 move to troop slot.

 

Or

B.

Give them better rules, power weapons, rad grenades, and a upgrade sprue with volkite equipment

 

Both. Both is good ;) And... while we're at it, let the Riever Lt take a grav chute like the rest of his troops! 

Edited March 6, 2023 by XeonDragon

[Tacitus]

12 hours ago, Triszin said:

I'll say it again.

 

Reivers:

 

A.
 move to troop slot.

 

Or

B.

Give them better rules, power weapons, rad grenades, and a upgrade sprue with volkite equipment

 

Give them a Special Rule that duplicates the Eviscerator for a Heavy Target, and make it so if they have Grapnels and GravChutes they're jump marines - 12", Fly etc. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

On 3/6/2023 at 7:43 AM, Triszin said:

I'll say it again.

 

Reivers:

 

A.
 move to troop slot.

 

Or

B.

Give them better rules, power weapons, rad grenades, and a upgrade sprue with volkite equipment

 

 

I'm highly against A, but mainly because I don't want to see a third Troop choice and the removal of the only current Elite choice for Phobos squads. I agree they definitely need some kind of help to justify NOT just making them Troops, though. Unfortunately, GW post-Chapterhouse doesn't seem likely to give them access to weapons from other kits, so the only likely wargear expansion for them is via the dedicated upgrade sprue you mentioned. And if THAT doesn't happen, then the only way to keep them out of the Troop slot is with a thorough do-over of their rules. I still think they need "Concealed Positions" just as a starting point, with additional improvements on top of that.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

I will preface this by saying I have been in the hobby since 4th and have a large Firstborn Blood Angels army.

 

I kind of want them to rip the plaster (band-aid) off with Primaris / First Born. The Marine 'Dex is an unweildy tome and frankly, at this point, I'd rather they just legends redundant firstborn units (tacticals, bikers, captains etc). I know that's not a popular opinion that many will not share but it's just my personal wish list. Even from a lore perspective, are there any battle line firstborn units left in-universe? Are they not now veterans, whether they like it or not? 

 

Further to my culling of the SM codex, I would - and have - do/done what many of you have already mentioned. Datasheet consolodation I think is somehitng so vital to Primaris armies I think at this point it should be taken out of GW's hands. To that end I've actually started a Primaris codex homebrew project. It opens wargear options up (captains can take jump packs and thunder hammers for example) and consolodates silly datasheet splits (infiltrators and incursors - omni-scrambler or Multi-spectrum Array is a wargear choice (they can also take camo cloaks)). 

 

I've basically gone by role and armour variation. 

• Battleline Tacticus
• Battleline Phobos
• Battleline Gravis
• Neophyte Squad
• Close Support Tacticus
• Close Support Phobos
• Close Support Gravis
• Fire Support Tacticus
• Fire Support Phobos
• Fire Support Gravis
• Elite Tacticus
• Elite Phobos
• Primaris Terminators (which I see as "special Gravis"; Deep strike, +2 save and an invuln)

I'm happy to share more if anyone is interested.

[Captain Idaho]

40K used to be a sandbox to explore the universe of the game we love so much. The problem with Primaris is they can only be used to explore a pushing forward narrative. Great for some, terrible for others. 

 

I'd love to have a campaign of the Tyrannic Wars, for example. The Badab War, 2nd War for Armageddon... these things are exciting and part of the history of the game.

 

Without Firstborn, they can't be reenacted with any form of balance or support.

 

People still like to play balanced games and to use a Calgar example, the inferior Artificer Armour version is cheaper in points and uses outdated rules compared to the Terminator version. Legends needs support it is all but useless to many players.

[Orange Knight]

The Badab War has very interesting lore, but I really don't think people were re-enacting these events in great numbers. Forgeworld themselves cut support for the Badab characters because people weren't interested, ultimately.

 

I have never seen a Mantis Warrior chapter on the tabletop, for example. These existing campaigns are also very limiting by the nature of their lore - Very specific factions and chapters are involved.  I actually own some of the Minotaur and Red Scorpions models, myself, and I've ever encountered anyone who wants to re-enact the events.

 

I think if people want to re-enact specific narrative campaigns or historic events, nothing can stand in the way of that. You don't need GW to update the rules for an old model in order to use them in a narrative event - you can homebrew the rules. And this is the crux of the issue - This desire for old narrative play shouldn't come at the expense of streamlining a codex or moving on with a new range. 

[Kallas]

My wishlist is for GW to take some action on their word that Primaris are not a replacement and release an actual Firstborn unit instead of more Primaris. It's not even about reenacting lore events, I just don't want more Primaris stuff.

 

Never going to happen, but still.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I want the new terminators to be a proper replacement. Look like a redesigned version of Indomitus, like MK VI was for Horus Heresy. If done right, it should just outright replace the current kit and datasheet.

 

Lorewise, I'd like Primaris to be able to use the existing venerable armor, as they should be able to do. If they nail it, a Terminator should be either Primaris or Firstborn, dependong on your fluff. The model of course would be scaled like a Primaris marine.

Edited March 9, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Kallas]

10 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Lorewise, I'd like Primaris to be able to use the existing venerable armor, as they should be able to do. If they nail it, a Terminator should be either Primaris or Firstborn, dependong on your fluff. The model of course would be scaled like a Primaris marine.

 

There isn't much reason a Primaris couldn't use Mk 7 or earlier armour either, nor why a Firstborn couldn't use Mk X. It's all a meaningless distinction created to force a division which will let them phase out of Firstborn into purely Primaris (ie, a business decision).

 

I'd just like to see actual fresh Firstborn since they're totally not being replaced (even though we literally see it happening with things like Calgar and Azrael). New Terminators that are clearly Firstborn Terminators (and not fully Primarisified into Gravis+) would be a big step in that direction - but like I said, very unlikely.

[Orange Knight]

I have no issue with Primaris using the Terminator plate.

 

As for the older marks, they are simply inferior to MkX, and MkX is plentiful.

You could make an argument on a case by case basis for a particular, sacred artificer suit however. 

[Blindhamster]

I think, we'll see the lines between "firstborn" (I actually hate the term tbh) and primaris be blurred, we've already seen that from recent character updates and the black templar refresh. Next iteration of stuff like tacticals will start to see parts resembling mk8 and earlier appear and basically as you say Kallas, both firstborn and primaris as concepts will be nixed, it'll just be marines with various roles. I don't think either firstborn or primaris UNITS are safe though when that time comes, they'll pick things based on the direction they want the overall game design of the army to go.

[Blindhamster]

2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I have no issue with Primaris using the Terminator plate.

 

As for the older marks, they are simply inferior to MkX, and MkX is plentiful.

You could make an argument on a case by case basis for a particular, sacred artificer suit however. 

mkX is superior in the same way mk7 was superior (I say mk7 specifically because it was almost the best armour, though actually mk8 is better just less plentiful, same is true of mk4 compared to mk1, mk2, mk3. mk5 and mk6). The level of superiority is small enough that all variations remain valid, and many suits are storied, so continue to see service. I REALLY liked how the deathwatch RPG handled that, older mks tended to have more special abilities because the suits machine spirit had been around longer, but they also tended to have slightly worse protective benefits (by tiny amounts).