WH40k game Vashtorr new rules

[Blight1]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/08/vashtorrs-rules-revealed-join-the-cult-of-the-arkifane-with-a-free-army-of-renown/

 

So we have his rules and his army of renown.   I'm... underwhelmed. 

Also a bit disappointed that he has no interaction with daemons.

Seems like the army of renown gives up a lot more than it gets in return. 

[Mr. Oddity]

It kind of makes sense to me that his buffs are focused on daemon engines and not regular daemons since his whole thing is making pacts to reforge them for power. His debuff auras will have some play in the midfield too, although I feel like he'll still be in the line of fire of whatever he cuts the range on. Combat capability is fine I think, although I admittedly don't have the best grasp of daemon character combat stats. He'll still pair well with engine-heavy builds of all stripes.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Mr. Oddity

[Lagrath]

Vashtorr's rules make him one of the worst models for the points GW has ever released, which is saying something. Every year I wish more and more GW would replace whoever on their staff writes the rules for Chaos models and armies. What a disappointment for such a beautiful and hyped model.

 

The AoR is awful too outside some very niche things. 

 

[tzeentch9]

Some nice ideas there, obviously you have to build the army to be just vashtorr and the daemon engines, but you can do that in arks of omen pretty easily. 3 maulerfiends, 3 forgefiend, venomthropes, helldrakes and lord discordants to fill the points.

[Closet Skeleton]

They don't want a repeat of 7th ed Ynnari which was unplayable against or early 9th Skitari Veteran cohort which was close to "now buy a supplement for you already powerful codex's real rules".

 

The army of renown is garbage if you aren't running most of your points in daemon engines. If you do run things that way I'm sure its fine since a pure daemon engine list has a ton of heavy weapons that would be screwed over by the first turn limit on Wanton Destruction.

 

Talisman of the Forge is great on a Lord of War. Spite Iron-Goad is bad due to the command phase nonsense. Helm of Cyberphage is very good for a relic when it works.

 

Advance and Charge stratagem is always good. Reroll hit aura is very good even if its weird as a stratagem. Forge Surge is good on a triple plasma forgefiend and that's what it'll be used on.

[Petitioner's City]

 

Now what is this lovely? 

[Blight1]

Oh yeah that thing interested me too.

 

So we may see this AoR just for triple decimators with double soul burners.

1 gets max shots and hit on 2+ but they all get full re-rolls and exploding 6s.  Sounds horrible.  Vashtorr is the tax you pay.

[Ammonius]

I haven't played the current edition, but I'm curious. What does "and the attack sequence ends" mean on the Hammer attack? Do you get all 7 swings, or if you get the 5+ for 4 Mortal wounds, you go no further?

[Kaiju Soze]

5 minutes ago, Ammonius said:

I haven't played the current edition, but I'm curious. What does "and the attack sequence ends" mean on the Hammer attack? Do you get all 7 swings, or if you get the 5+ for 4 Mortal wounds, you go no further?

It means that, for that dice, you stop rolling.  So, for the hammer, on a 5+ to wound versus vehicles, you deal 4 mortals but not regular damage and no save required.  Any dice that come up less than that, you keep going as normal.

[Blight1]

Also a bit frustrated that this isn't really an army you can run.  Really feels like he's supposed to be a mixed daemon and CSM force.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The AoR rules look pretty good to me.

[Prot]

I don't know what to say. I'm actually shocked how bad he is. The positive is.... there's a new army of renown to play. Would it be better as Iron Warriors? Quite possibly. But it's something different to try.

 

The model, and story of this guy is so amazing.

 

Actually I think there's more to be excited about in that box for Azrael/Dark Angel players... wow did I have this box backwards.

 

As much as I had this model/date marked on the calendar, I have to rethink ordering this now.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Prot

[gitface]

Each attach is a separate action which you roll one at a time, so in Vashtorr case you declare were each of his 7 attacks are going and then resolve each one.  Being lazy games though we tend to take the approach of fast rolling so, so if all 7 attacks were against the same target you'd roll 7 dice for attack and then the appropriate to wound, etc.

 

So in this case "and the attack sequence ends" just means 1 attack roll, so for example:

 

Rolls to hit:  1, 3, 5, 5, 3, 2, 6  = 6 hits so you roll your 6 wound rolls

 

To wound 1:  3  --  compare Strength / Toughness to see if wound / roll save / do 3 damage

To wound 2:  4  --  compare Strength / Toughness to see if wound / roll save / do 3 damage

To wound 3:  1  --  no wound

To wound 4:  2  --  compare Strength / Toughness to see if wound / roll save / do 3 damage

To wound 5:  5  --  don't compare  Strength / Toughness just do 4 mortal wounds

To wound 6:  4  --  compare Strength / Toughness to see if wound / roll save / do 3 damage

 

Hope that helps

 

[INKS]

Iron Warriors came to mind as well., I wonder why he's so bad?

[Mr. Oddity]

3 minutes ago, INKS said:

Iron Warriors came to mind as well., I wonder why he's so bad?

The meme answer is so that we have justification as to why he inevitably loses to the Dark Angles despite the hype since we all know the status quo reigns supreme 

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Wow a degrading profile on a unit that can't look out sir..... again. At least give him a passive that let's his movement stay the same regardless of damage. 

 

The flamer is also stupid underwhelming. 

[Nephaston]

Ah, another graduate of the Haarken Worldclaimer School of ignoring visible melee weapons.

 

This time with a flamer that has one elaborate claw as decoration.

[Jscarlos18]

Don't play Chaos but I wouldn't worry too much about Vashtorr''s current profile, since if 10th edition is coming GW will update it to be better then(maybe?). The only thing I find a little bit dissapointing is that his weapons have such boring names but maybe they will change them later.

[Jukkiz]

39 minutes ago, Jscarlos18 said:

Don't play Chaos but I wouldn't worry too much about Vashtorr''s current profile, since if 10th edition is coming GW will update it to be better then(maybe?). The only thing I find a little bit dissapointing is that his weapons have such boring names but maybe they will change them later.

you mean something like this? 

Good times

[Lagrath]

At least GW is pretty consistent with several decades of giving Chaos garbage gameplay rules at every opportunity.

[Jscarlos18]

1 hour ago, Jukkiz said:

you mean something like this? 

Good times

XD

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Lagrath said:

At least GW is pretty consistent with several decades of giving Chaos garbage gameplay rules at every opportunity.

 

Some weird life as art thing going on, where CSM fans are just meant to continue to suffer for eternity.

[Closet Skeleton]

3 hours ago, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

Wow a degrading profile on a unit that can't look out sir..... again. At least give him a passive that let's his movement stay the same regardless of damage. 

 

The flamer is also stupid underwhelming. 

 

Vashtor doesn't need a look out sir or care about his movement degrading because he has the ultimate form of defence, not being the most pressing threat on the board.

 

Strip 50 points off and he's fine in his intended environment of leading a bunch of daemon engines. Its a good thing that he's not just going to be another beat-stick that never gets used as part of a flavour accurate force because they're powerful enough to just slot into any army of whatever is currently hot.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Closet Skeleton

[Dark Shepherd]

I can see him being much better in 10th (hopefully as hes such a cool model), or whenever Dark Mech come out

 

Probably Chaos Marines but wonder what codex(es) he'll be in in 10th?

 

Theyre possibly hedging his rules a little as hes agent of chaos

[Orange Knight]

I have a feeling that Vashtor will return with a Vengeance in 10th edition as the head of an entire new faction!

 

Fantastic model, imo.