KiltedMarine Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 My biggest questions all have to do with lore implications. Will Cypher become a Loyalist? Will the Deathwing keep the bone color scheme, or go black in honor of the Primarch? How many of the Fallen will rejoin the Lion, and how many have fallen completely to the Ruinous Powers? Just how hard will Asmodai bluescreen when the Lion tells him to do penance for his psychotic sadism? So. Many. Questions. Azoriel 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 And GW in for the troll. With Inner Circle now gimped, that's pages of our discussions completely worthless now That's certainly a way to end it. Azoriel, phandaal, Emperor Ming and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I really hope this a classic case of it's the darkest just before the dawn. Honestly having people not playing Dark Angels that are cheering for our nerfs without playing the faction is bad enough. phandaal, HolyPestilience and Sea Creature 2 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I suppose we had our moment in the sun for awhile, and like the iron hands before the truly dedicated will continue on regardless of the meta phandaal 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanis Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Maybe in a small group of thinking, but I'm happy to see Inner Circle nerfed. I joined 40k when the DA codex was a thin little "magazine" of a codex, black & white entries, long before all the armies had to have insane rules to matter. My group played armies for the look and fluff, so I hope this weeds out the meta-chasers, and for myself, I missed this era of rules thanks to health reasons, so I won't even miss it, ha ha! Are powerful rules nice? No doubt, but some of my best games were with a sub-optimal book, with "vanilla" Deathwing rules, greenwing, and a prayer to the Emperor. I never, ever thought I'd see the day a Primarch came back, let alone the Lion himself after decades of GW teasing it in some little paragraph. I'm just happy to see the setting move forward, the Lion being active again means more than his TT rules. Maybe a waste of a post, so apologies brothers and feel free to ignore, but I feel the focus on rules in current 40k has eclipsed narrative, fun, or playing for the sake. Some don't have a choice, game-shop players bring net-lists, etc, but I am looking forward to 10th and the major changes coming. For better or worse, the Dark Angels are the First, For the Lion! Skywrath, crimsondave, Sarvis and 9 others 1 4 6 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostrael Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 At least they released this change before the preorder goes live. Imagine the outcry if they would have done it two weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lostrael said: At least they released this change before the preorder goes live. Imagine the outcry if they would have done it two weeks later. I can't wait till you get your paws on the Lion :D. WrathOfTheLion and Lostrael 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostrael Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Brother Captain Arkley said: I can't wait till you get your paws on the Lion :D. me neither, but I have to finish Azrael first. WrathOfTheLion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 39 minutes ago, Lostrael said: me neither, but I have to finish Azrael first. :D. crimsondave, Kanis and WrathOfTheLion 1 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 We've got a new edition ahead in only two months, with our Primarch coming back with an awesome miniature. The current rules don't matter that much. phandaal 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 We shouldn't worry to much. Our Ravenwing are still able to drop the flying elbow. Remember to look at the bright side of grimdark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) SPOILERS AHEAD, CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK!! LORE SUMMARY FOR ARKS OF OMEN: THE LION. Edited April 14, 2023 by Skywrath Azoriel 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 This just cements my intention of converting and painting up some original legion coloured Bladeguard for my Lion’s guard Spoiler They’ll be Redeemed Fallen post-Rubicon! Azoriel, WrathOfTheLion, Skywrath and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 (edited) Things I like from the above leak: Spoiler It is clarified that the "Redeemed" as they are called are indeed fighting for the Imperium. I was a bit concerned the Lion would need to be making nice with Fallen still spouting that secessionist anti-Imperial nonsense. The Redeemed Sons also sounds like it would be a nice chapter name to me. A thing I don't like from the above leak: Spoiler How does Azrael know that Borz is one of the Fallen on sight? Does the Lion somehow find the time to inform everyone that his bodyguard are all former Fallen during the fight? I remember in the Ravenwing novel that the Dark Angels didn't even know Cypher was Cypher until he announces himself, and this is despite him wearing black power armor sans Ravenwing markings. I guess this is supposed to hint at future tensions though, which would only make sense given the 10K years of animosity. Edited April 14, 2023 by Azoriel grammatical error KiltedMarine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiltedMarine Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, UtariOnzo said: This just cements my intention of converting and painting up some original legion coloured Bladeguard for my Lion’s guard Hide contents They’ll be Redeemed Fallen post-Rubicon! Same. 100% agreed. I want to see the Lion's return create a window for the Chapter to move away from the paranoia a little and toward chivalry. Might be an unpopular take, but it would make me happy. 38 minutes ago, Azoriel said: Things I like from the above leak: Hide contents It is clarified that the "Redeemed" as they are called are indeed fighting for the Imperium. I was a bit concerned the Lion would need to be making nice with Fallen still spouting that secessionist anti-Imperial nonsense. The Redeemed Sons also sounds like it would be a nice chapter name to me. A thing I don't like from the above leak: Reveal hidden contents How does Azrael know that Borz is one of the Fallen on sight? Does the Lion somehow find the time to inform everyone that his bodyguard are all former Fallen during the fight? I remember in the Ravenwing novel that the Dark Angels didn't even know Cypher was Cypher until he announces himself, and this is despite him wearing black power armor sans Ravenwing markings. I guess this is supposed to hint at future tensions though, which would only make sense given the 10K years of animosity. That Chapter might just be my about-to-be started DA successor army. But I love the original Unforgiven, too. Decisions, decisions... Azoriel and Skywrath 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Arkley Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Skywrath said: SPOILERS AHEAD, CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK!! LORE SUMMARY FOR ARKS OF OMEN: THE LION. Got a summary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 9 hours ago, Brother Captain Arkley said: Got a summary? Here you go: Spoiler The Lion is with a Blood Angels fleet with Dante, training and dueling among his Redeemed Sons/redeemed fallen, how he got with them isn’t explained. the Unforgiven have amassed in legion strength of old to assault Vashtor and Abaddon, winning the first void engagement but then realising that the planet they’re attacking is Caliban. Or rather, a new planet called Wormwood that’s made up of recovered fragments of Caliban. The Unforgiven assault the planet, with Azrael leading a force into a large central temple where they believe Vashtor is. Abaddon’s trap is sprung at this time, as massed chaos reinforcements hidden in the system reveal themselves and attack. Azrael discovers a World Eater’s altar, which explodes as Angron is summoned into realspace and attacks. Vashtor was hiding in orbit all this time, and secretly heads to the Rock whipe everyone is distracted by the fighting. Dante and his mixed fleet of Blood Angels, Imperial Navy etc of Imperium Nihilus arrives around this time to the surprise of all, revealing he is with the Lion to the disbelief of the Unforgiven. He assaults the palace to take on Angron alongside Azrael. Angron does Angron things, smashing Blood and Dark Angels about, nearly killing Dante when the Lion arrives to the shock of his sons. The Lion fights Angron, with plenty of emperor powered shield bashing to the head, while his Redeemed Sons assist the combined Dark Angels and Blood Angels force in extracting. Wormwood at this point is breaking up, as the Tuchulcha Engine in the Rock was the last artefact Vashtor needed, starting his ritual. Lion manages to defeat Angron, but knows he’ll be back in time, and extracts with the Imperial forces, heading back to the Rock. With all the artefacts together and the ritual complete, Vashtor has made Wormwood the Key itself, a webway portal of the Old Ones Very rough summary, and tried to condense it down as best I can without missing any of the important points Kanis, Azoriel, Interrogator Stobz and 2 others 2 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 Hoping someone can help me out here. There is a lot of negativity surrounding the Lion's datasheet, specifically his 4++, going around the internet. When I ask for specifics on why they always point to the Hammerhead, Vanquisher, and Angron. And sure the Vanquisher has a 54% chance to deal damage, the Hammerhead is only 42%, and Angron is only 35%. But if there are 3 reivers or one land speeder next to the Lion, the 2 tanks can't shoot him. Most weapons in the game are going to fail to get damage past his T and Save over 80% of the time even if they have a successful hit. Are people just really bad at math? Or is it something else that that causes them to complain. Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 They’re comparing him in a vacuum is the issue, which is very common in Horus Heresy with Primarch vs Primarch ‘mathhammer’. All it does is give you a spread of average probabilities which are taken for gospel truth on ‘power levels’. That’s fine for highly competitive gaming, where individual probability differences can make a difference if both players are playing a tight game and making optimal choices, but is kind of mostly irrelevant I find for weekly match ups with your pals at the LGS. Unless you’re planning to enter tournaments, I honestly wouldn’t pay too much mind to mathhammer summaries unless a model is found to be objectively bad in almost every way. Interrogator Stobz, Kanis and Sea Creature 1 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostrael Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 I guess I'll have to wait for the Lion a few month more... Didn't get anything when the website crashed. This ruined my day... need to find some chocolate cookies and tea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevulf Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 (edited) I feel your pain! I got ltd AoO: Lion Book, ltd son of the forest book and Lion himself in my cart and when I started to checkout all crushed and I couldn't do anything for 35 minutes! All sold out now. I am sooooo frustrated. Thank you for nothing GW ! Edited April 15, 2023 by bevulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintuhadoken Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 Yep, in crashed took an hour to recover and sold out.... I'm having flashbacks to the 9th launch box. I do wonder why that GW hasn't reinforced the store servers by now, they know when the big launches would be, so why is it that they go down every time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGXH Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 3 hours ago, ValourousHeart said: Hoping someone can help me out here. There is a lot of negativity surrounding the Lion's datasheet, specifically his 4++, going around the internet. When I ask for specifics on why they always point to the Hammerhead, Vanquisher, and Angron. And sure the Vanquisher has a 54% chance to deal damage, the Hammerhead is only 42%, and Angron is only 35%. But if there are 3 reivers or one land speeder next to the Lion, the 2 tanks can't shoot him. Most weapons in the game are going to fail to get damage past his T and Save over 80% of the time even if they have a successful hit. Are people just really bad at math? Or is it something else that that causes them to complain. I don't think you are wrong assessing his datasheet on the whole- I expected it to be about what it is, though had hoped for more- Inner Cricle mattering (though that didn't last till he was out anyway), Ravenwing/Deathwing keywords, multiple tier warlord trait ala Magnus/Mortarion... so much could have been done and wasn't. But I think 9/10 Imperial players, or even those involved in the lore, would expect The Emperor's Shield (tm) to at least be substantially better than your average Storm Shield, defensively- never mind the 'mass-produced' Relic such as The Shield Eternal. Imagine if The Emperor's Sword was worse than a Power Sword? That's the level of negativity surrounding the Shield, because that is the perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 (edited) Were people in earnest expecting a 3++ from the Emperor's Shield, just because Guilliman has it from his 8E datasheet? They spent a lot of time scrubbing 3++ from the game, there's no way this would be an exception. That's one of those things that raw math comparisons between them might bring up, but with some basic sense you know would never happen. Edited April 15, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaal Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 4 hours ago, ValourousHeart said: Are people just really bad at math? Or is it something else that that causes them to complain. Who are you arguing with though? People have moved on to other topics. There is a new edition in 2 months. The Lion's current rules are irrelevant. More power to you if you can even get a copy of the Lion in time to have it ready for any significant number of games in what is left of 9th edition. Kanis and Skywrath 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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