How does loss of FOC effect your plans?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just curious how people plan on building their 10th edition lists based on the limited information we have available.

[Lord_Ikka]

It will most likely not effect much- right now with AoO you can already get almost any sort of army you want without having any sort of "tax". The only real thing you might see is armies that are overabundant with what are now known as Fast Attack/Elite/Heavy Support choices will be able to take more than six distinct datasheets. 

 

Without any sort of idea how the OC trait works, what missions/secondaries look like, and without a basic look into what we would consider "standard" profiles like Guardsmen squads, SM squads, various tanks/monsters to figure out characteristic stats, there really isn't much point in speculating towards list-building or theory-crafting. Much more information is needed before anything other than wild speculation is going to happen. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[sairence]

10th isn't go to be here until July/August, I'll be having dozens of games in person and online and probably a few events as well.

 

So I don't see much point wracking my brain about a system I know barely anything about yet.

 

[SteveAntilles]

I have 12 Infantry squads in my Tanith army. I'm going to have to swap 6 of them to be "Shock Troops." Hopefully I have enough special weapons for all this.

[Warhead01]

I think it depends. There is talk of detachments and we haven't seen that play out just yet. If it's a free for all...Um. well, I am working on 40-ish more infantrymen right now which brings me up to 10 full squads and if conscripts do not make a return then I'll have an additional 12 to 15 squads and I would like to fields them all if it's possible.  I'll be happy to play games large enough to field them all and then some.  250 to 300 warm-ish bodies in a list huzzah! 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Warhead01

[Karhedron]

We really don't have enough information to plan yet. We know that the classic FOC is going away but we don't really know what will be replacing it. GW have indicated there will be detachments of some form but all we know so far is 1 HQ and build from there. One rumour is that Troops, Heavy Elite etc are going away to be replaced by a system more like AoS where you have to have a certain amount of Battleline units. Exactly what counts as Battleline will vary depending on your detachment. For example, Infantry squads will probably be Battleline in a standard IG list but it might be possible to build an Armoured Company detachment where Leman Russes are Battleline (just an imaginary example, not an informed comment).

[Focslain]

Given on the limited information it's hard to say. If they are in fact using the AoS list building rules then it's a good chance the Obsec units will be the battlelines. @Karhedron gives a good example. 

 

So much like the last four editions it will have little effect on my list building.  This might end my wolves streak though, depends on the HQ limits. 

[dees]

I tend to think 10th Edition list building will be close to what is happening in AoO now.  I often run mixed infantry and tank lists which has been common for AM back to the days it was IG.  Where AoO factored in as a positive was I could now have all the troops I wanted/needed and still not need an extra CP costing detachment to get my heavy support on the board.  In most editions GW has found ways to let most faction break the main FoC, so I think that remains a strong possibility coming up.   

[Emperor Ming]

Battleline units being limited to 6 will effect some lists

 

Suppose you could do 6 cadian, 6 infantry squads

 

Sucks if you want to run all Krieg I guess

[Karhedron]

10 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Battleline units being limited to 6 will effect some lists

 

Do we have a source for Battleline units being limited to 6? In Age of Sigmar there is a minimum number based on the points value of the game but no maximum. Here is how it looks in AoS.

 

[Emperor Ming]

Yes its mentioned in one of the new 40k articles

[Karhedron]

14 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Yes its mentioned in one of the new 40k articles

 

Quote

* Units with the Battleline keyword can be taken up to six times, so your dream of a full Space Marine Battle Company army can still be fulfilled…

 

Ah, OK. No more than six of a particular type of unit. I though you meant no more than 6 Battleline units in total. My guess is that there will be some sort of work-around for Guard as most of the Troop choices are regiment-specific and not everyone wants to play soup.

 

Then again, how many people want to play with more than 60 basic guardsmen? One of the aims of the new edition is to streamline play so possibly spamming swarms is not the best way to do this. Also, I think that Battleline units will include more than just entries currently in the Troops section. I think things like Heavy Weapons Squads, Scions and Kasrkin are all potential candidates for the Battleline keyword.

[Focslain]

4 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Then again, how many people want to play with more than 60 basic guardsmen? One of the aims of the new edition is to streamline play so possibly spamming swarms is not the best way to do this. Also, I think that Battleline units will include more than just entries currently in the Troops section. I think things like Heavy Weapons Squads, Scions and Kasrkin are all potential candidates for the Battleline keyword.

 

Well personally I run about 40ish per 1K

 

My basic army building is a 35 man 'platoon' with a HWS support and a small squad of tanks per 1K

 

The Platoon is a command squad and 3 infantry units, though recently I've ran an standard infantry squad, a squad of cadians and a DkoK squad cause I convereted the models and wanted to use them. Also swapped the HWS for a FOB cause they look amazing. 

 

In 2K it would be 2 platoon units so just over 70 models considering the HWTs pairing guardsmen up. But that is given that I'll have 5-6 tanks in the force as well. Someone doing a mostly infantry force could easily double my numbers. 

 

Another army that would have the same issue is a fire warrior heavy Tau force as their infantry is about the same cost as guards (PL wise, FW are 4 per 10 while guard is 3-4 per 10) and unlike say Orks, Tyranids and even GSC, who's cheap troops can at least go to the 20-30s per slot. 

 

Hopefully we do get the old platoon system back in a ways or a raise in the battleline cap.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

 

Ah, OK. No more than six of a particular type of unit. I though you meant no more than 6 Battleline units in total. My guess is that there will be some sort of work-around for Guard as most of the Troop choices are regiment-specific and not everyone wants to play soup.

 

Then again, how many people want to play with more than 60 basic guardsmen? One of the aims of the new edition is to streamline play so possibly spamming swarms is not the best way to do this. Also, I think that Battleline units will include more than just entries currently in the Troops section. I think things like Heavy Weapons Squads, Scions and Kasrkin are all potential candidates for the Battleline keyword.

Luckily infantry squads are regiment agnostic, so which ever regiment you’re trying to represent you can use the IS to supplement them after the 6th regimental squad.

[The Pounder]

What do you gents think the chances that Krieg will get a sub faction sheet?
 

I know they already announced that all Forgeworld kits will get rules day 1 but I’d love to see Krieg specific units (like the Marshal and Deathriders) get their own rules set.

 

Am I deluded in hope or do you think they’ll allow the Krieg some flavour?

[TCC]

2 hours ago, Jud Cottrell said:

What do you gents think the chances that Krieg will get a sub faction sheet?
 

I know they already announced that all Forgeworld kits will get rules day 1 but I’d love to see Krieg specific units (like the Marshal and Deathriders) get their own rules set.

 

Am I deluded in hope or do you think they’ll allow the Krieg some flavour?

There was the leak ages ago from simply warhammer that they would get their own rules for 10th - fingers crossed

[Warhead01]

It's starting to sound like I wont be able to field my 300 Imperial Guardsmen as an army in 10th. So what would be the max number of squads we could actually field?  
 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

32 minutes ago, Warhead01 said:

It's starting to sound like I wont be able to field my 300 Imperial Guardsmen as an army in 10th. So what would be the max number of squads we could actually field?  
 

They said 6 of a single battleline unit (or something like that) and then rule of 3 for everything else.

 

so far that’s all we know, so theoretically you could still run 300(ish) guard infantry without any problem if I’m understanding it correctly.

 

6 CST squads

6 infantry squads

6 DKOK squads

6 Catachan squads

240 infantry.

command squad 245 infantry.

3 Kasrkin squads

3 scion squads

305 infantry models on the board assuming points allow.

[Warhead01]

I'm not sure what to think about that.  I hate being forced to draw from so many regiments, hopefully they will all be the same points costs so it won't matter but I find this incredibly dumb on GW's part. They did say legends will still be a thing so maybe there's a little hope there.
Hope the Orks shake out better than the AM or it'll just be Primaris for me in 10th.  If I can't build an Am list I will be happy with I won't even bother bringing them out.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Have you considered that 6 Battleline will be the hard limit? Not 6 of each datasheet, but 6 in total from Battleline choices?

 

I just hope there are ways to take less battleline and more of something else. My favourite thing about 8th/9th was that Troops weren't mandatory and I could run a full army of literally anything else.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

27 minutes ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

Have you considered that 6 Battleline will be the hard limit? Not 6 of each datasheet, but 6 in total from Battleline choices?

 

I just hope there are ways to take less battleline and more of something else. My favourite thing about 8th/9th was that Troops weren't mandatory and I could run a full army of literally anything else.

I mean it’s possible but that would be extremely limiting to nids, guard, and orks just off the top of my head.

 

a total of 9 units plus 1-3 HQs would probably kill those armies

Edited March 29, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Arikel]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

Have you considered that 6 Battleline will be the hard limit? Not 6 of each datasheet, but 6 in total from Battleline choices?

Eh possible bit doesn’t seem to fit the wording. They state rule of 3 per datasheet, with battline units having an exception to take 6 of the same sheet.

[Karhedron]

5 hours ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

Have you considered that 6 Battleline will be the hard limit? Not 6 of each datasheet, but 6 in total from Battleline choices?

 

It is possible but that is not what they said in the leak. They said a maximum of 3 of any particular unit or 6 of a particular unit if it is Battleline. If they go with AoS system then there is no upper limit on the number of Battleline units you can take.

  

5 hours ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

I just hope there are ways to take less battleline and more of something else. My favourite thing about 8th/9th was that Troops weren't mandatory and I could run a full army of literally anything else.

 

If they follow the AoS model then this is where Detachments may come in. For example Infantry squads will probably be Battleline in a standard IG army. However if you choose to run an armoured company then Infantry will lose Battleline but Leman Russes will gain it. This is what they mean by "one in, one out". For Attilans we might see Rough Riders gain battleline at the expense of Infantry.

 

So you will always need Battleline units but which units count as Battleline will depend on what Detachment you are running.

[Cpt_Reaper]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

It is possible but that is not what they said in the leak. They said a maximum of 3 of any particular unit or 6 of a particular unit if it is Battleline. If they go with AoS system then there is no upper limit on the number of Battleline units you can take.

  

If they follow the AoS model then this is where Detachments may come in. For example Infantry squads will probably be Battleline in a standard IG army. However if you choose to run an armoured company then Infantry will lose Battleline but Leman Russes will gain it. This is what they mean by "one in, one out". For Attilans we might see Rough Riders gain battleline at the expense of Infantry.

 

So you will always need Battleline units but which units count as Battleline will depend on what Detachment you are running.

 

You just made my day!

[BluejayJunior]

If the limit is 6 max battleline units, there's also the possibility that Guard would be able to field a Platoon of 3 infantry squads as a single battleline unit or something similar. That way you could still field a mass infantry army. Who knows how things will shake out with list building at this point.