The Lion - Son of the Forest by Mike Brooks

[Allart01]

5 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

I haven't had the pleasure of reading a Brooks book before, and I enjoy experimenting with style as much as anyone, but I don't think this was really it.

 

  Hide contents

Possibly the most milquetoast portrayal of the Lion possible. I've written here at length about what I wanted to see in terms of his portrayal, and I don't think this is going to satisfy anybody. This doesn't feel like the Lion. It's Guilliman with a beard and no bite. 

 

 

I'm halfway through the book, and as a 15+ years DA fan/player/collector I find Old Man Lion quite endearing.

He references all of the old plotlines, mistakes and decisions he made during the Heresy and the Scouring, and is forced by the entirely new context he finds himself in to question and adapt his ways of thinking.

The scenes where he struggles with the entire concept of actually aging were really fascinating to me.

 

I do agree that he comes across as if he has softened a little too much a times, but I get what Brooks was going for and find it a plausible and even interesting character development.

He could not remain the Lion from the days of Heresy, with the entire First Legion at his back.

Times have changed, and the Lion has to change too.

I suspect it would have been easy and unsatisfying to just have the exact same character, fixated in stone forever and ever.

 

This is basically a new character, yes, but it builds on what has come before, and I'm willing to see where they go with it.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kelborn

[theSpirea]

Finished it and wouldn't give it more than 5/10. It's definitely not as bad as other Brooks's books but it still reads like poorly written fanfiction.

The opening was the worst. I understand what the author was trying to achieve there but he isn't good enough to pull it off. He's not capable of subtlety. The dialog is still the worst part and it seems Brooks really can only write Orks. All characters sound exactly the same, there are no differences between Lion, magos, Fallen, etc.

 

Everything happens so conveniently. "Ha, a sword, perfect for me. Ha, someone left a gun here that just fits me. Ha, a shield". The same with Fallen. They all get together so conveniently. The whole Zabriel and Lion conversation at the beginning lacks finesse. It basically reads "you traitor, no you traitor. But I didn't know. Hm, I didn't know either. We good? Yeah we good". This could have been much more. This is not a topic/type of book Brooks can deliver. Not just to s* on the writer. I give him credit for some of the fight scenes, those weren't that bad.

 

I'm aware I will be in a minority. I simply don't understand how anyone can consider Brooks writing as decent/readable. I only read it because there are already memes popping out, such as "Corax is dead" and I wanted to know what's that about. To finish it on a positive note. This is my last Mike's book. I gave him more chances than I should and I won't be ranting about him here anymore. I'm glad people are enjoying it as this is a big event in the setting.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kelborn

[BitsHammer]

3 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

I haven't had the pleasure of reading a Brooks book before, and I enjoy experimenting with style as much as anyone, but I don't think this was really it.

 

  Hide contents

Possibly the most milquetoast portrayal of the Lion possible. I've written here at length about what I wanted to see in terms of his portrayal, and I don't think this is going to satisfy anybody. This doesn't feel like the Lion. It's Guilliman with a beard and no bite. 

 

I have only read a few books with the Lion and am only now starting to dive into more, but I disagree.

 

Spoiler

To me this is the Lion with the benefit of the wisdom that comes from experience. He recognizes that he was fooled by Horus, the by Perturabo, and how he failed the Imperium in the past. This gave him the mindset that makes it possible for him to forgive those who were tricked by Luther in a similar fashion.

 

Guilliman and the Lion don't 1:1 match their 30k selves but they also don't match each other in this story. 

 

For example Guilliman caused problems by voicing his position on religion while the Lion kept his own council and avoided the church as much as possible.

 

Guilliman sought to control and steer the Imperium's government back towards the age of enlightenment he knew, the Lion seems to ride out and slay the beasts that stalk the Imperium in the same way he helped free Caliban from their predations.

 

I think the only similarities between them are that they are both horrified by what they see now. Guilliman by the Imperium's backslide, while the Lion is more focused on the enemies the Imperium now has.

 

Is this a softer Lion? Not really. He is tempered more to be less mercurial and he is feeling his age, but these things only sharpen him in other ways. Frankly I like this Lion. He feels like an old Knight who is riding out in defense of his liege and that fits him very well.

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

I really try not to use 'poorly written fanfiction' as a critique, being a creator of poorly written fanfiction myself, but I think that's spot-on. The end of the book had me legitimately wondering if I'd been fooled somehow, that the copy wasn't genuine. 'Subtlety' is probably the best word to describe what's missing from this book. There's a difference between layering on Arthurian fable and winking at myth and the actual grist of the narrative mill. A lot of flash attempting to disguise a serious lack of substance. In all fairness to Brooks, I wonder if he was under some serious editorial constraints. I don't think even Dark Imperium played it quite so safe - at least there we have Matieu and Colquan.

[BitsHammer]

I think Mike likely had a list of things he had to do like get the Lion equipped, change his armour, get him to Dante.

And he definitely hits those even if we don't get deeper answers at this time to how the sword and shield are where he finds them. This feels more like setting up new plot threads around the forest to be explored more later 

 

I don't agree with the poorly written fanfiction claim. I listened to the book via text-to-speech reader in Adobe at work which was probably the worst way to listen but I feel like the characters remained unique enough in how they spoke and acted to stand out. 

 

As for the Fallen just getting back together with him, I think it's because they know the Lion never lies and that he asks them to help him rather than orders. He also goes out of his way to try to not harm his sons which helps give him more sincerity in their eyes.

 

The Fallen his interacts with aren't the Chaos worshipping renegades but rather individuals who are trying to survive. They have reason to take the offer he gives because it frees them from a life of being hunted and let's them have some of their honour back. That isn't to say the Lion blindly trusts them, and they aren't blindly trusting him either but they are trying anyways because both sides recognize that this is their best path forward.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kelborn

[Kelborn]

I've added some spoiler tags here and there and remind you about what I've asked earlier.

 

Even the slightest descriptions or even sarcastic comments can have an impact on others reading experiences and expectations.

 

So again, keep that in mind when writing about this novel.

I'd wager that only 5% of this community has the chance to read it themself. 

 

[Scribe]

Seems like its not that great.

[BitsHammer]

56 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Seems like its not that great.

I'd argue that comes down to what you go into expecting. If you wanted the 30k Lion who would punch Guilliman in the face you'll be disappointed. If you wanted a Lion who grew from that and is trying to learn from his mistakes, then you'll probably enjoy it more.

[wecanhaveallthree]

You know what meme where the kids are like, 'We want the Lion! We want the Lion!', and the Emperor turns around and is like, 'No, we've got the Lion at home'?

 

That's Son of the Forest. 

 

It's like... when Guilliman came back, he was still largely the same guy he was during the Great Crusade. The Primarchs are pretty hard to turn from their intended tracks, largely by design. It's 30K sensibility banging into 40K reality, and Guilliman curses it, hates it, then gets on with the business of fixing it because that's who he is as a character. He made mistakes, sure, and he admits at least some of them - e.g. the Codex - but his stubbornness, his resistance to change or compromise even as The Flexible And Compromising Guy, is what made his transition to 40K so successful. Guilliman is not at all comfortable with the future he finds himself in. He's tired. He's under incredible pressure. He's had a lot of the foundations of his belief ripped away. But the soul of the character is still there, it's grappling with this new state of affairs and trying to find a grounding while staying true to itself.
 

Spoiler

Son of the Forest has very, very little to say about the Lion, one of the most notoriously inflexible people around. The Guy Who Was Always Right (and you better not question that, or you'll get your head punched off). The guy who shanked Russ in the Imperial Palace, then went off to blow up his home planet. The Lion's character is one of rigidness, of singular self-belief, who needs nothing and nobody. 'Loyalty is its own reward' describes the Lion perfectly. He doesn't give a damn about anybody else.

 

There is no suggestion he's learned or changed, no hint of what may have given him new perspective. There are no jagged edges, no fundamental breakage or conflict between Old and New. As a frater says above, this feels like a new character. As a commentator on Reddit said, you could have written this book about a new DA character seamlessly in the Lion's place and have it read just as well. Our new Lion doesn't really question anything. This is the guy who was utterly paranoid and untrusting of anything, and he just shrugs his shoulders and accepts everything that's going on. Yep, it's all good. This is just how things are now. This is New Coke Lion, the old knight who totally cares about people now, and totally wants to, like, save humanity (even though pretty much the last thing we saw him do was 'lmao i am going to kill literally every person in the galaxy rather than let Horus have even one subject to rule'. That's not the Lion. That's... that's Luther, I think? Luther was the guy with all the chivalry and knightly orders and care for the common man and strange magicks and independence. Maybe Brooks just got confused? They do both start with 'L'?

 

TL;DR Somehow, Lion El'Jonson returned.

[Scribe]

Yeah thats for sure going to be a pass from me.

[Arkangilos]

8 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

they meet the Lion freaks out at Dantes death mask

Can you quote how that goes? That’s basically all I care about

[theSpirea]

6 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Can you quote how that goes? That’s basically all I care about

Spoiler

Then a new group of ten Space Marines emerge from the central gunship, and between them comes a warrior in incredibly ornate golden plate, with a jump pack rising from his back, and his face masked.

The Lion’s eyes fall upon that mask, and rage fills him.

‘Who are you?’ he demands, striding forward. The assembled Blood Angels, who had their weapons held neutrally in parade form, bring them up to ready positions as one, although they do not yet aim them. The Lion does not care. ‘Who are you,’ he repeats, louder and more angry, ‘to wear my brother’s face?’

They are Sanguinius’ features, cast in gold, and drawn in an expression of rage and grief that reaches out and tears at the Lion’s heart all over again.

‘Stand down, brothers,’ the masked warrior orders, and the Blood Angels lower their weapons once more. Then the gold-armoured commander reaches up and removes his helm, revealing the face beneath.

The Lion can see the distant echo of the Angel there, but greatly distilled by time. The warrior’s long hair which spills loose is jet black, but threaded with silver, and his pale skin is drawn tight over high cheekbones, with faint blue veins visible beneath it. For all the power and command this Space Marine radiates, the Lion can tell that he is ancient.

‘I am Dante, commander of the Blood Angels,’ the golden-armoured warrior says. ‘I greet you, Lion El’Jonson, lord of the Dark Angels and son of the Emperor.’

The Blood Angels drop to one knee, just as smoothly as their Thunderhawks landed. The Lion frowns, abruptly feeling as though he has been wrong-footed.

‘You are satisfied with my identity?’

‘If you will forgive me, lord, you are… older than I expected,’ Dante says, still on one knee. ‘But to have so readily and unprompted recognised the face of our gene-father says much. Besides, I have served the Emperor for over a thousand years, and I have yet to meet a being with the same bearing as a primarch, save for another primarch.’

The Lion blinks. Over a thousand years? Dante was ancient indeed! And–

‘Wait,’ he says, his mouth dry. ‘Another primarch? Get up, all of you,’ he adds, ‘just tell me – one of my brothers yet lives?’

‘My apologies, my lord Lion,’ Dante says, rising back to his feet along with his warriors. ‘I assumed word had arrived ahead of us. Lord Guilliman of Ultramar was revived and healed from the stasis in which he had been locked for millennia, and has launched the Indomitus Crusade to take back the Imperium from its enemies. He fought his way through the Great Rift and came to the rescue of my Chapter and our blood-brothers, and brought reinforcements with him in the shape of the Primaris Marines, a new breed of warrior developed over ten thousand years.’

The Lion’s thoughts are whirling. The Imperium still exists. He is not being denounced as an imposter, and plunged into an ugly civil war against his brother’s sons. There are other bastions of humanity out there in the galaxy, with which he can link up and fight back the darkness. However, one thought rises to the surface above all others.

Roboute.

I am not alone.

It's the last page of the book, make sure you want to see it.

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

You know what meme where the kids are like, 'We want the Lion! We want the Lion!', and the Emperor turns around and is like, 'No, we've got the Lion at home'?

 

That's Son of the Forest. 

 

It's like... when Guilliman came back, he was still largely the same guy he was during the Great Crusade. The Primarchs are pretty hard to turn from their intended tracks, largely by design. It's 30K sensibility banging into 40K reality, and Guilliman curses it, hates it, then gets on with the business of fixing it because that's who he is as a character. He made mistakes, sure, and he admits at least some of them - e.g. the Codex - but his stubbornness, his resistance to change or compromise even as The Flexible And Compromising Guy, is what made his transition to 40K so successful. Guilliman is not at all comfortable with the future he finds himself in. He's tired. He's under incredible pressure. He's had a lot of the foundations of his belief ripped away. But the soul of the character is still there, it's grappling with this new state of affairs and trying to find a grounding while staying true to itself.
 

  Hide contents

Son of the Forest has very, very little to say about the Lion, one of the most notoriously inflexible people around. The Guy Who Was Always Right (and you better not question that, or you'll get your head punched off). The guy who shanked Russ in the Imperial Palace, then went off to blow up his home planet. The Lion's character is one of rigidness, of singular self-belief, who needs nothing and nobody. 'Loyalty is its own reward' describes the Lion perfectly. He doesn't give a damn about anybody else.

 

There is no suggestion he's learned or changed, no hint of what may have given him new perspective. There are no jagged edges, no fundamental breakage or conflict between Old and New. As a frater says above, this feels like a new character. As a commentator on Reddit said, you could have written this book about a new DA character seamlessly in the Lion's place and have it read just as well. Our new Lion doesn't really question anything. This is the guy who was utterly paranoid and untrusting of anything, and he just shrugs his shoulders and accepts everything that's going on. Yep, it's all good. This is just how things are now. This is New Coke Lion, the old knight who totally cares about people now, and totally wants to, like, save humanity (even though pretty much the last thing we saw him do was 'lmao i am going to kill literally every person in the galaxy rather than let Horus have even one subject to rule'. That's not the Lion. That's... that's Luther, I think? Luther was the guy with all the chivalry and knightly orders and care for the common man and strange magicks and independence. Maybe Brooks just got confused? They do both start with 'L'?

 

TL;DR Somehow, Lion El'Jonson returned.

I'm going to quote the Lion from First Legion:

Quote

"That I was ever, and only, thus," he says, tasting the raw, frigid air of another Caliban dawn. "The hunter. The slayer of beasts."

I think his nature on the book matches that. His stated goals match that. Heck, I'd argue his choices reflect that. He sees beasts and that is his highest priority. Arguable during the Heresy he had lost a bit of that in the frustration and anger he felt. 

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

Can you quote how that goes? That’s basically all I care about

It's literally the end of the book and sets up the Lion and Dante working together at the start of the Arks of Omen book:

Quote

Spoiler

Then a new group of ten Space Marines emerge from the central gunship, and between them comes a warrior in incredibly ornate golden plate, with a jump pack rising from his back, and his face masked.

The Lion’s eyes fall upon that mask, and rage fills him.

‘Who are you?’ he demands, striding forward. The assembled Blood Angels, who had their weapons held neutrally in parade form, bring them up to ready positions as one, although they do not yet aim them. The Lion does not care. ‘Who are you,’ he repeats, louder and more angry, ‘to wear my brother’s face?’

 

They are Sanguinius’ features, cast in gold, and drawn in an expression of rage and grief that reaches out and tears at the Lion’s heart all over again. 

‘Stand down, brothers,’ the masked warrior orders, and the Blood Angels lower their weapons once more. Then the gold-armoured commander reaches up and removes his helm, revealing the face beneath.

The Lion can see the distant echo of the Angel there, but greatly distilled by time. The warrior’s long hair which spills loose is jet black, but threaded with silver, and his pale skin is drawn tight over high cheekbones, with faint blue veins visible beneath it. For all the power and command this Space Marine radiates, the Lion can tell that he is ancient.

‘I am Dante, commander of the Blood Angels,’ the golden-armoured warrior says. ‘I greet you, Lion El’Jonson, lord of the Dark Angels and son of the Emperor.’

The Blood Angels drop to one knee, just as smoothly as their Thunderhawks landed. The Lion frowns, abruptly feeling as though he has been wrong-footed.

‘You are satisfied with my identity?’

‘If you will forgive me, lord, you are… older than I expected,’ Dante says, still on one knee. ‘But to have so readily and unprompted recognised the face of our gene-father says much. Besides, I have served the Emperor for over a thousand years, and I have yet to meet a being with the same bearing as a primarch, save for another primarch.’

The Lion blinks. Over a thousand years? Dante was ancient indeed! And– ‘Wait,’ he says, his mouth dry. ‘Another primarch? Get up, all of you,’ he adds, ‘just tell me – one of my brothers yet lives?’

‘My apologies, my lord Lion,’ Dante says, rising back to his feet along with his warriors. ‘I assumed word had arrived ahead of us. Lord Guilliman of Ultramar was revived and healed from the stasis in which he had been locked for millennia, and has launched the Indomitus Crusade to take back the Imperium from its enemies. He fought his way through the Great Rift and came to the rescue of my Chapter and our blood-brothers, and brought reinforcements with him in the shape of the Primaris Marines, a new breed of warrior developed over ten thousand years.’

The Lion’s thoughts are whirling. The Imperium still exists. He is not being denounced as an imposter, and plunged into an ugly civil war against his brother’s sons. There are other bastions of humanity out there in the galaxy, with which he can link up and fight back the darkness. However, one thought rises to the surface above all others.
 

Roboute.

I am not alone.

 

Related to the ending and what Dante says:

Spoiler

The Lion knew that Guilliman was trying to improve the Emperor's work, so I don't think the Primaris are going to wrong foot him all that much. It's a small detail in his dialog early in the story when he meets his first Fallen son.

 

[Scribe]

So, in short its going to be happy bro times in the imperium. What a wasted opportunity.

[BitsHammer]

14 minutes ago, Scribe said:

So, in short its going to be happy bro times in the imperium. What a wasted opportunity.

It was never going to happen. I know people keep wanting some civil war that rips the Imperium in half, but GW didn't do that with Primaris, and I don't think they're going to do it with any loyalist Primarch.

Edited April 17, 2023 by BitsHammer

[Allart01]

I can't wait to read all about the Lion's endless reunions -Luther, Cypher, Azrael, Guilliman- but I bet it will be a while before we get that.

I'd avoid speculation on that front, but yes, Brook's Lion doesn't sound like he's going to put up a civil war against Guilliman.

 

Thank god.

[BitsHammer]

35 minutes ago, Allart01 said:

I can't wait to read all about the Lion's endless reunions -Luther, Cypher, Azrael, Guilliman- but I bet it will be a while before we get that.

I'd avoid speculation on that front, but yes, Brook's Lion doesn't sound like he's going to put up a civil war against Guilliman.

 

Thank god.

40k's Lion. Brooks may have written the book but he took guidance from the studio on where the Lion was going and what he could do with him. How he travelled those points was up to him, but regardless of the path walked he has a set destination.

 

[Scribe]

It didnt need to be a civil war, to actually be interesting.

 

Instead its 'wow, I was a dick, and grew up'.

[Sothalor]

47 minutes ago, Scribe said:

It didnt need to be a civil war, to actually be interesting.

 

Instead its 'wow, I was a dick, and grew up'.

 

Why wouldn't that be interesting? "I was a dick, and grew up" is one of the fundamental, archetypal stories humanity has had since... we've been telling stories. It endures for a reason.

 

People coming to terms with where they've come from, who they've been, and how they need to change moving forward is a timeless story.

 

Of course, the execution is where the rubber meets the road. I don't have the book yet so I can't say in this particular instance, but there's no reason "the Lion undergoes character growth" should be intrinsically uninteresting.

[BitsHammer]

16 minutes ago, Sothalor said:

 

Why wouldn't that be interesting? "I was a dick, and grew up" is one of the fundamental, archetypal stories humanity has had since... we've been telling stories. It endures for a reason.

 

People coming to terms with where they've come from, who they've been, and how they need to change moving forward is a timeless story.

 

Of course, the execution is where the rubber meets the road. I don't have the book yet so I can't say in this particular instance, but there's no reason "the Lion undergoes character growth" should be intrinsically uninteresting.

Agreed. I have read the book and I admit I am not as well read on the Lion as others but him recognizing that he was tricked by his brothers and that he had made mistakes, even if it doesn't have pages of misery porn about it, is still valid.

[Fedor]

From that excerpt it looks like Brooks missed the chance to deliver a nice shout out to the HH series enduring classics and install himself as a legend of the lore.

 

All it would have taken was a quick, brutal description of him suddenly punching Dante's head into pulp, after the line about rage filling him.

[Scribe]

20 minutes ago, Sothalor said:

 

Why wouldn't that be interesting? "I was a dick, and grew up" is one of the fundamental, archetypal stories humanity has had since... we've been telling stories. It endures for a reason.

 

People coming to terms with where they've come from, who they've been, and how they need to change moving forward is a timeless story.

 

Of course, the execution is where the rubber meets the road. I don't have the book yet so I can't say in this particular instance, but there's no reason "the Lion undergoes character growth" should be intrinsically uninteresting.

 

Its not a 40K story. Timeless trope? Sure. 40K?

[phandaal]

This book is written in present tense?

[Knockagh]

I didnt buy this when I saw it was by Brooks and I know folks will howl when I say this but I really wish Gav Thorpe had been given this. He has made the DA. I’ve been reading Cypher and I’m pretty suprised how well French has written them. So if Gav was unacceptable to the masses surely he would have been a better option than the ork comedy guy? The choice of author for what should have been a massive book is really odd. Are BL having trouble encouraging writers to write??