10th Edition Chaos Speculation

[Zeruel]

So with 10th on the way what's some things you expect to see in store for us and conversely what are some fears you may have?

I'm not too concerned per say about the Detachment special rules and the apparent lack of sub faction rules, I'll roll with the punches on that. My main concern is the Faction special rule. Space Marines have Oath of Moment now instead of Combat Doctrines, so it seems Let the Galaxy Burn probably isn't going to be the faction one anymore, maybe it will get re-purposed to our first detachment. What I'm worried about in this "Simplified not Simple" stance they're taking is Marks  might end up being to be a direct casualty. Are we going to end up back to square one like in 8th where Marks were basically just lip service and had no real in game effect? My hope is that maybe Marks just become our own unique Faction rule, just invent a Mark of Chaos Undivided and have them all be of roughly equal worth (they're basically all the same cost now anyway) and you could just select which mark each unit has as an in built rule that they just factor into the model point costs.

The other main concern I have is how Daemon Weapons are going to make the cut. With only four enhancements per detachment they don't seem like they'll end up there. Do you think we might just get them as actual wargear choice for certain characters only or are they going the way of the dodo again? Might be cool if they were the purview of Chaos Lords only, that might give them a bit more of an interesting niche than they have now as a worse, slower daemon prince.

 

Should also make it clear, not trying to be doom and gloom either, quite the contrary I'm pretty hopeful for 10th with all that's been revealed so far. Chaos Marines just tend to live more in that space where losing special rules might be a big flavour loss because it's hard to represent the various gifts of chaos otherwise. I don't want (nor expect) the 3.5 Codex but I played  the 4th ed codex enough to just a little bit dread that kind of simplification.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I foresee our Troops being supplemented with the Traitor Guard and Beastmen from the recent kill teams. With that said, I could see a detachment that allows for mostly mortal followers of the Gods as well.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Every army will have a faction-wide special rule, and then each Detachment provides another rule layered on top.  The given example is that all Marines get Oath of Moment and the Gladius Strike Force adds Combat Doctrines on top of that.

 

So we may keep Let the Galaxy Burn as the faction rule.  Then our Index Detachment -- let's say, "Black Crusaders Detachment" -- would provide a different rule on top of that.  I also don't think we're going to lose Marks again, since units will still have wargear options and upgrades.

 

As for the daemon weapons, they only way I can see them working without taking over the entire Enhancements category would be to have a single entry called "Daemon Weapon," and then the bonus is provides changes depending on what Mark the bearer has.  For example:

 

Undivided: Critical Wounds causes MWs.

Khorne: +2 Attacks

Slaanesh: Critical Hits or Wounds on 5+ instead of 6s

Tzeentch: No invulnerable saves

Nurgle: Ignores FNP & DR

 

So it's one entry that can be applied to any weapon.

[Cpt.Danjou]

I was a bit too negative

Edited April 8, 2023 by Cpt.Danjou

[sitnam]

7 hours ago, Cpt_Reaper said:

I foresee our Troops being supplemented with the Traitor Guard and Beastmen from the recent kill teams. With that said, I could see a detachment that allows for mostly mortal followers of the Gods as well.

I really think we're edging closer and closer to being able to run Lost and the Damned/Renegades and Heretics again. Since brood brothers are confirmed to still exist, I wouldn't be shocked if we got a LatD detachment using a combination of CSM cultists and AM units

 

I don't know what to expect until we see some more detachment details. So far we have no idea what the differing attachments will offer: will they be subfactions based, play style based, etc

Edited April 8, 2023 by sitnam

[Prot]

Honestly I feel like we barely got to flex our new codex this edition.  So I’m a bit worried what “Let the galaxy burn” will do but in some way, shape or form I’d absolutely love to see some exploding sixes again. It’s been a lot of fun. Not super reliable and a bit fickle…. Just like chaos. It just seems so fitting and fun. I hope they find a way to continue it. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Prot

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think other books are going to get hit hard with the model/loadout restrictions. Luckily for us, we've been through that crucible, so I see things smoother going into 10E than what happened with our 9E book.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So today's WarCom article about characters tells us a few things:

 

1. Some characters will be able to join squads, but those options are limited and apparently based on armor type

2. Most of the time, it's one character per squad but some "second tier" support characters can double up (example given was Captain + LT in one squad)

3. Characters that can't join squads (called Lone Operatives) will sometimes get a type of bodyguard rule if next to a specific unit type (example given was Feirros next to a vehicle).

 

So, looking at our roster, I'm going to predict the following:

 

1. Lords in power armor can join Legionaries, Havocs, Chosen, maybe Possessed but I doubt it

2. Exalted Champions are the same, but can double up with a Lord

3. Master of Execution is a Lone Operative

4. Master of Possession either can join Possessed & Obliterators, or will gain Lone Operative when near these

5. Sorcerers get the same squad options as Lords & Champs

6. Terminator characters can join Terminator squads and maybe Obliterators

7. Dark Apostles will keep their own little squad with their buddies

8. Warpsmiths & Disco Lords will gain Lone Operative when near vehicles

 

 

This does kind of leave our jump & bike units out of luck when it comes to attached character support, but that's largely because GW took away our mobility upgrades for characters.  IF -- and I doubt they will -- we get those upgrades back, I feel like we'll get jump pack & bike options back for just Chaos Lords.  It did occur to me that in terms of mobility, you could make an argument for Discos joining bikes but there's no thematic connection there so I very much doubt it will happen.

[Kaiju Soze]

I don't see anyone getting to join Possesed unless they (the Possessed) get a movement reduction. Mixed movement rates in a single unit tends not to work well.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's why I was wishy-washy with Possessed options.

[Zeruel]

This is probably a long shot but I also hope GW is a bit more unique with their character abilities. I'll be a bit disappointed if a Chaos Lord is just a Space Marine Captain in all but name again, same for an Exalted Champion/Lieutenant.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They may flesh out the Chaos Space Marine hero range to handle jump packs and all, but that's just intuition. Most of our base kits are fine with the exception of bikes, but Chaos Lords, etc. are really what need releases to fill out the lineup.

[Zeruel]

I really hope we get a new chaos lord kit this edition like the canoness and autarch from 9th.

[sitnam]

2 hours ago, Zeruel said:

I really hope we get a new chaos lord kit this edition like the canoness and autarch from 9th.

I think it's highly likely. As you said, the Canoness and Autarch are recent, but we've also gotten multi-option Primaris Lieutenants and Gravis Captains

 

The dream would be a kit similar to the TS sorcerer kit, with three different bodies and tons of options to create Lords of varying armaments and exalted champions

[WrathOfTheLion]

One thing I think they will do is clean up some of the options on the Legionary kit. For example, there's an axe option which isn't in the main kit, only ever having been in the now unavailable Shadowspear sprues. They'll iron that out to accursed weapons/power weapons all around I think.

[Zeruel]

4 hours ago, sitnam said:

I think it's highly likely. As you said, the Canoness and Autarch are recent, but we've also gotten multi-option Primaris Lieutenants and Gravis Captains

 

The dream would be a kit similar to the TS sorcerer kit, with three different bodies and tons of options to create Lords of varying armaments and exalted champions

 

Oh a three pack like the Thousand Sons kit that let us build Lords/Exalted Champions/Sorcerers would be a dream come true. Could have all the combi-weapons, melee weapons, a jump pack, a few relic looking options etc. Sadly I don't expect kits like that from GW anymore. I think best we can hope for is a Lord with one pose, maybe two or three head options and about three weapon options per arm. Even that would be a god send though. Chaos hasn't had a good Lord on foot option in pretty much forever. Back in 2nd/3rd we had a few different metal models with varying equipment but that was about as good as it ever got. We were still rocking those same models up until 7th edition. HQs have probably been the biggest glaring omission in model releases for us for almost as long as I've been playing this game.

[TrawlingCleaner]

21 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

1. Lords in power armor can join Legionaries, Havocs, Chosen, maybe Possessed but I doubt it

2. Exalted Champions are the same, but can double up with a Lord

3. Master of Execution is a Lone Operative

4. Master of Possession either can join Possessed & Obliterators, or will gain Lone Operative when near these

5. Sorcerers get the same squad options as Lords & Champs

6. Terminator characters can join Terminator squads and maybe Obliterators

7. Dark Apostles will keep their own little squad with their buddies

8. Warpsmiths & Disco Lords will gain Lone Operative when near vehicles

 

 

Havocs are an interesting one as they have the same movement as power armoured characters but they're T5. From the wording of the article, characters in units aren't targettable until everyone else is dead but I think there is likely rules that allow you to target specific models or characters perhaps? I wonder how that would work with a mixed toughness unit

Mixed Movement squads could work like the Deathwatch Veterans Squads where the unit only moves as fast as the slowest member?

 

My main worry is that PA and TDA Lords and Exlated Champs don't really have many options of units to join. Assuming there's no Armour cross pollenation (Power armour mixing with TDA), PA Lords get 3 maybe 4 and TDA gets 1 maybe 2, that's not very flexible

 

This is the only part I'm down on from the 10th edition reveals so far as most factions don't have as many options as Space Marines in terms of characters and unit choices. Everything else looks ace and I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in store for this edition

 

[Zeruel]

Presumably a Chaos Lord in PA and Exalted Champion will only be able to join Legionnaires and Chosen, maybe we see the return of a jump pack option for the Lord to join Raptors and the Lord in TDA can go with Terminators. It might also be the case that general CSM keep limited access to the cult units and probably allow a Lord with the appropriate Mark maybe to join those units. I can't see characters really being able to join any of the Daemonkin units, MAYBE the Master of Possession will be able to go with the Possessed but I would wager he'll likely just be a Lone Operative while near Daemonkin or Daemon Engine units.

[RolandTHTG]

So I'm getting excited for chaos sorcerers based on the preview today.  Giving Warptime to their joined squad, and also providing a Balefire attack or something makes a nasty addition to their capabilities.  I suspect that the Master of Possession will have Cursed Earth and something else. 

[Toldavf]

I want to look at legionnaires and say yes I want these in my army, also new termy models with a load out that's a bit more standard. 

Jump lords plz. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Characters are looking quite good, I'm definitely looking forward to see what Sorcerers are like. I'm really hoping we see an expansion of the character range as well to cover more bases.

[gaurdian31]

Jump Lords and Bike Lords back as well as new bikers are what I want. I also want an updated Huron. Lucius will most likely get an update when Emperor's Children get their codex so I think that leaves Huron as the last HQ choice needing an update. I'd also like to see the defiler get an update to fit in with the modern CSM look and for the MoP, Venom Crawler and Oblitorators to get separate releases. Finally I would like us to keep up with any rules that standard space marines get, you know like 2 wounds or our terminators also having the same stat line. Weapons and stuff can be different and should be, but base stats should align across both sides.

[MegaVolt87]

I'm not buying the next version of the CSM lost and the damned codex we have now. 10th Ed changes that need to be made- 

 

- revert the loadouts restrictions.

- more 30k plastic kit integration (contemptors, preads, Scorpius, stock sicaran, mabye Levi) with the full loadouts options. 

- double gun ranged loadout options for hellbrute. 

- AP -1 standard profile on the bolter, combi bolter and bolt pistol. 

- Volkite options for chosen. 

- Multi melta option for CSM infantry. 

- Mono CSM bonous for having no mortal units.

- More unit upgrade options such as red butcher upgrade. IW- Iron Havocs, BL- Lupercalii, WB- Gal Vorbak, NL- Terror Squad, AL- headhunters.

(Using possesed, Havocs and chosen for the base unit capture the spirit of Legion era units without requiring a dedicated kit). 

 

Make codex CSM actually CSM again.  

[RolandTHTG]

Mate, there's no way GW is going to do most of that list, and I'd specifically be upset if they did penalize taking cultist units (what I think you're referring to as mortals). Heck, we know from Storm of Iron that even Iron Warriors use cultist mobs in their armies. 

Especially,  Volklite and Multimelta aren't in the plastic kits, no way GW will add them. I think you'll be a lot happier if you you don't get yourself angry over your imagined homebrew codex. 

[Karhedron]

I read an interesting article on Reddit by someone claiming to be a play tester (take a generous pinch of salt).

 

Their take is that the loss of customisation will be mitigated by more special rules on units themselves. We have seen indications of this with the Vehicle rules that have been previewed (Rhinos have self-repair, Repulsors allow nearby squads to jump in and take shelter if they get charged, Land Raiders get assault ramps, Falcons give squads rerolls to Wound when shooting at the same target etc).

 

The claim is that neat abilities will be built into most units. You take the units you want for the abilities they give as much as their basic combat capabilities. Apparently this means no more having to take X squads of Troop tax before you get the juicy stuff as you can base your choice of units on their abilities.