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10th Edition Chaos Speculation


Zeruel

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17 hours ago, danodan123 said:

 

Have they said its one a day? Todays article simply says later this week.

 

Screenshot_2023-05-02-09-32-00-62_a23b203fd3aafc6dcb84e438dda678b6.thumb.jpg.0b4e4029f7ed25efcb78ca90c724bb2f.jpg

 

The daily Faction Focuses should take us up to the 6th of June :happy:

 

The easy route for jumppack lords would have been to make Worldclaimer a generic jumppack lord with 2 accursed weapons if your army isn't BL. I'm not sure they can really do that anymore as there won't be a BL detatchment

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On 4/28/2023 at 3:27 PM, Rain said:

Just making it so FW vehicles no longer cost a CP each is probably all we can hope for.

 

I think that is a reasonable hope. As far as I understand, you do not start the game with a pool of CPs in 10th, you just earn them in the command phase now. If this is true, then by implication you can't spend CPs pregame so extra Relics and WLTs may be going away too.

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30 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I think that is a reasonable hope. As far as I understand, you do not start the game with a pool of CPs in 10th, you just earn them in the command phase now. If this is true, then by implication you can't spend CPs pregame so extra Relics and WLTs may be going away too.

Extra WLTs and Relics (enhancements now) were not in the 9E World Eaters Codex, so it's very likely that it's gone entirely in 10E.

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Nice to see Legionaries still can't have plasma pistol and chainsword. And by nice I mean the other thing. Daemon blades are gone, presumably wrapped up into Accursed Weapons along with power weapons and lightning claws. Power fists could be accursed weapons or Heavy Melee weapon. Also, max 2 plasma pistols per squad (1 champ, 1 legionary).

 

Leadership took a bit off a nerf, and no extra attacks for the Aspiring champion.

 

Not convinced by a faction rule that can hurt you to use, especially if many units continue to not be allowed to take icons.

 

And there's still someway to Mark units, since the stratagem gets a buff on Nurgle units.

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That's definitely the most complex datasheet we've seen yet with the Legionaries. Glad to see it still has options, and there's some insight I think into other datasheets. Likely there's a Heavy Melee Weapon equivalent for Plague Marines for instance.

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I'll be interested to see what the ruling is on melee weapons. If it's all equipped (which is my assumption as it follows AoS so closely), Legionnaires are blenders with 4 attacks with a chainsword and 3 with CCW, Abaddon would have the potential to do 38 MWs if you roll all 6s to wound.

Interestingly, Champions can keep their boltgun and get an upgraded melee weapon, cool!

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11 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

I'll be interested to see what the ruling is on melee weapons. If it's all equipped (which is my assumption as it follows AoS so closely), Legionnaires are blenders with 4 attacks with a chainsword and 3 with CCW, Abaddon would have the potential to do 38 MWs if you roll all 6s to wound.

Interestingly, Champions can keep their boltgun and get an upgraded melee weapon, cool!

 

If that is the case, I'm never using bolters! 

 

It does seem like CSM are being pushed as a close combat army.

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8 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

That's nothing new to be honest.

It really isn't.  Even just looking at 9E, 3 melee attacks vs 2 Boltgun shots pushes them that way.

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I'm coming around on Dark Pacts. D3 mortal wounds isn't the end of the world, but it does lean towards being used by anything with a high volume of attacks. Sustained Hits on Warp Talons. Lethal Hits on a power scourge Helbrute when it charges a vehicle. Not so great on a Land Raider unless it's a dire situation. Curious to see what Lords, Sorcerers, Dark Apostles, and such offer our units when they're attached. 

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Of course it isn't and shouldn't be AoS!

 

In aos a model could swing all its weapons in melee, yes, but the number of attacks of each weapon is also limited correspondingly, a hero can't have up to 16 attacks on a single weapon. e.g. Archaeon(800+pts, faction boss) has 4 attacks on its main weapon.

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55 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Complete disaster, fixed box loadouts, melee weapon variant erasure, variable dice rolls, buffs where you have a chance to hurt yourself and bolters with no AP -1. Didn't even show our detachment either, which is probably not great. 


Well, for what it’s worth, I think the roadmap has CSM receiving a full codex Q4 2023, at which point the faction rule will probably change. Options being locked to box contents is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future, unfortunately. GW sees it as a way to fight 3rd parties selling 3D printed weapon packs.

 

As to weapons being abstracted more, I welcome this change. I like being able to model weapons like maces and flails without having to worry about the rules matching, or being bad. It’s easier to explain that the guys with two handed flails have “Heavy Melee Weapons” rather than “Heavy Chainaxes” or something more specific like that.
 

Plus rules for what is and isn’t good keep changing. So, if you model a bunch of swords because they are good, but then rules change and make axes better, or whatever, it sucks. Better to just keep it more abstract, at least in my opinion. Regular CCW, Chain weapon, and 2 handed CCW is enough differentiation for infantry weapons.

 

I’d be more concerned about the likely loss of Legion specific rules and wargear.

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1 hour ago, sitnam said:

Seems like most everyone will be hit by that, with the exception of "divergent chapters",.


True, but Chaos Legions have far more history and lore behind them then the various Kabals, Necron Dynasties, Sisters Convents, etc. that GW pulled out of thin air to justify every codex having subfactions.

 

Most long time Chaos players play Iron Warriors, or Night Lords. Not silver Chaos Marines, or dark blue Chaos Marines. There are thousands of pages of novels and lore behind the Legions. Not so for the Kabal of the Obsidian Rose.

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4 hours ago, Rain said:


True, but Chaos Legions have far more history and lore behind them then the various Kabals, Necron Dynasties, Sisters Convents, etc. that GW pulled out of thin air to justify every codex having subfactions.

 

Most long time Chaos players play Iron Warriors, or Night Lords. Not silver Chaos Marines, or dark blue Chaos Marines. There are thousands of pages of novels and lore behind the Legions. Not so for the Kabal of the Obsidian Rose.

 

I can appreciate where you're coming from for the most part, however, GW's lack of attention in novels or models for specific subfactions doesn't make them lesser. Even the Legions were pulled out of thin air at one point too :wink:

 

From what we know so far, every "codex" faction will only have one detatchment each at the Launch of 10th ed. The 8th ed Indexes were pretty barebones for flavour which is what's likely to happen here, I think. When Codexes roll around, I can definitely see each subfaction getting a detatchment or a way to represent them. It would be really easy to release a Detatchment in White Dwarf for the lesser known subfactions too.

 

Overall, I'm liking what we've seen for CSM so far and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the rules :happy:

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9 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

"Accursed weapon" is a genius invention for rules.

 

If you want variety on model appearance, just do it, glue any bits you like, and don't need to headache about WYSWYG or version impact.

The difference between Power Maul, Power Axe and Power Sword was negligible and dumb as well, with one always ending up being the superior one however the stats shake up, in which case that's the one that was always used. There was no purpose to it, and it didn't add anything of value except make people fish for <insert axe, maul or sword> bits to try to make the squad the best, or have to pointlessly magnetize all their terminators or sergeants with a bunch of nonsense.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion
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14 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

The difference between Power Maul, Power Axe and Power Sword was negligible and dumb as well, with one always ending up being the superior one however the stats shake up, in which case that's the one that was always used. There was no purpose to it, and it didn't add anything of value except make people fish for <insert axe, maul or sword> bits to try to make the squad the best, or have to pointlessly magnetize all their terminators or sergeants with a bunch of nonsense.

 

All Aspiring Champions can take Thunder Hammers Heavy Melee Weapons now too! :laugh:

Flattening profiles like this, is great in my opinion. Accursed weapons on Terminators and Chosen in 9th was ace and I expect some other choices like Combis (as we saw from the libby) will likely follow suit

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8 hours ago, Rain said:


True, but Chaos Legions have far more history and lore behind them then the various Kabals, Necron Dynasties, Sisters Convents, etc. that GW pulled out of thin air to justify every codex having subfactions.

 

Idk about the Dynasties and Kabals, but Sister Orders have been distinctive since like 3rd edition, same with Ork Klans and Eldar Craftworlds.  

 

37 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

The difference between Power Maul, Power Axe and Power Sword was negligible and dumb as well, with one always ending up being the superior one however the stats shake up, in which case that's the one that was always used. There was no purpose to it, and it didn't add anything of value except make people fish for <insert axe, maul or sword> bits to try to make the squad the best, or have to pointlessly magnetize all their terminators or sergeants with a bunch of nonsense

I agree, I've done a fair bit of kitbashing and it's nice to not have to worry about justifying aesthetic choices. I just hope this trend doesn't continue into Kill Team, which is better suited for having a plethora of weapons

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1 hour ago, sitnam said:

Idk about the Dynasties and Kabals, but Sister Orders have been distinctive since like 3rd edition, same with Ork Klans and Eldar Craftworlds.  


I don’t recall any old Sisters Order lore, but that may also just be because they were barely an army until about 5th. Anyway, fair enough, I may just be ignorant as to their subfaction lore.

 

Necrons were heavily retconned in 5th, during which Dynasties were introduced, but each Dynasty was a short blurb to justify a color scheme. Same as Dark Eldar Kabals. Color scheme, short blurb. Same as Hive Fleets.

 

Comparing those short blurbs with the absolutely massive amount of background and lore of each individual Chaos Legion is silly. People play Necrons that happen to be Mephrit Dynasty or whatever because they liked the colors. People play Night Lords that happen to be Chaos Space Marines because they read the ADB trilogy. Or because they like Konrad Kurze. Or for other Night Lords specific reasons. The wealth of lore is not even remotely close.

 

Now, if GW really expands the lore for some of these subfactions then fair enough, but as it was, they took some names attached to color schemes and shoved in rules for a the sake of parity.

 

PS: I agree as to Craftworlds and Ork Klans, they should have subfaction rules same as Legions. Ork Klans are about the minimum amount of lore to support subfaction rules in my opinion.

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