10th Edition Chaos Speculation

[Kaiju Soze]

I don't see Cultists going away, not with 3 kits for them (including Traitor Guard). I do see them still being restricted to avoid the same issue the studio had with the 8E codex: taking 3 minimum units as required Battleline/Troops and otherwise ignoring Legionaries. 

[MegaVolt87]

12 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Mate, there's no way GW is going to do most of that list, and I'd specifically be upset if they did penalize taking cultist units (what I think you're referring to as mortals). Heck, we know from Storm of Iron that even Iron Warriors use cultist mobs in their armies. 

Especially,  Volklite and Multimelta aren't in the plastic kits, no way GW will add them. I think you'll be a lot happier if you you don't get yourself angry over your imagined homebrew codex. 

 

My suggestions use plastic kits that exist now like the new HH weapons. I'm not calling for a mortals nerf or their removal, I'm asking for a CSM mono buff for units that are the codex title. Even with such a mono buff, the mortals will be still viable to mix like now. Pure CSM need that boost. The fact Pure CSM builds are far behind a majority of mortal units with minimal CSM, that is a lost and the damned army. Adding a few of the HH plastic tanks is also a no brainer, it cross sells kits, shows CSM with legacy wargear and closes the power gap of the faction. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by MegaVolt87

[danodan123]

6 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

My suggestions use plastic kits that exist now like the new HH weapons. I'm not calling for a mortals nerf or their removal, I'm asking for a CSM mono buff for units that are the codex title. Even with such a mono buff, the mortals will be still viable to mix like now. Pure CSM need that boost. The fact Pure CSM builds are far behind a majority of mortal units with minimal CSM, that is a lost and the damned army. Adding a few of the HH plastic tanks is also a no brainer, it cross sells kits, shows CSM with legacy wargear and closes the power gap of the faction. 

 

It does seem you want to play... a 30k army? :D

Edited April 21, 2023 by danodan123

[Malakithe]

Im curious how spells are going to work. I know there was an article about it but it didnt answer anything. Do we still have to cast powers if they are done in each phase now? Cast Smite then roll to see if it hits? Can it even be denied? Seems kinda janky  

[MegaVolt87]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:39 AM, danodan123 said:

 

It does seem you want to play... a 30k army? :D

 

I want what a lot of others want as CSM 40k players- representation with older gear because we are LEGIONS, not chapters. At the moment, its about the only thing we can't do. 

[danodan123]

10 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

I want what a lot of others want as CSM 40k players- representation with older gear because we are LEGIONS, not chapters. At the moment, its about the only thing we can't do. 

 

I think it would be cool to have some of the older gear - like for example most of our CSM are 'firstborn' still, so there is still a hint towards this.

 

Although, I believe the traitor legions would probably mostly be broken up into warbands now, which is pretty similar to chapters I guess?

[WrathOfTheLion]

53 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

 

I think it would be cool to have some of the older gear - like for example most of our CSM are 'firstborn' still, so there is still a hint towards this.

 

Although, I believe the traitor legions would probably mostly be broken up into warbands now, which is pretty similar to chapters I guess?

Until Mortarion, Angron, etc. started showing up to the scene and pulling their respective Legions back together, only the Word Bearers were still functioning in any capacity as a Legion, at least as far as I remember from the Chaos Space Marine codex.

 

Still, as that's a bit off topic, it would be nice to get access to some more older toys. Something like a support squad, volkite weapons, etc. would be nice additions to the CSM line.

Edited April 24, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Rain]

The organization and nomenclature has nothing to do with what wargear the given warband uses. It doesn't matter if your army is a Word Bearers Host that still operates under a nominally centralized command structure, or a rabble of World Eaters drawn from 3 different Heresy Era companies and united under an especially choppy Chaos Champion that operates separately from all other World Eaters warbands. Assuming the force is made up of Astartes that are, at least in part, Heresy veterans, said Astartes should have Heresy-era gear. Yes they scavenge loyalist gear, etc., but it should still be an option. In fact, back in the day, this was why CSM didn't have multi-meltas or man-portable plasma cannons, but did have Reaper Autocannons, and combi-bolters, with RA being Heresy era proto-assault cannons, and combi-bolters being Heresy era proto-storm bolters.

 

The point is that the aspect of CSM that many players enjoy is being able to play an army of Heresy veterans still active in the "current" time period, and that the weapons and vehicles of such a force should indeed be closer to a HH army than a modern Marine army, irrespective of if the given Legion still operates as a cohesive force, or as a disparate collection of warbands united by color scheme, culture, and legacy.

[Karhedron]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:46 PM, Malakithe said:

Im curious how spells are going to work. I know there was an article about it but it didnt answer anything. Do we still have to cast powers if they are done in each phase now? Cast Smite then roll to see if it hits? Can it even be denied? Seems kinda janky  

 

My understanding is that you do not cast psychic powers anymore and they cannot be denied. Smite is just a regular shooting attack with the PSYCHIC keyword. Veil of Time is an always-on buff with the PSYCHIC keyword.

 

We have already seen a defensive ability that triggers of that keyword. The Psychic Hood provides a 4+++ against wounds caused by PSYCHIC attacks. But there is no generic Deny mechanic anymore so one Librarian could not block another Librarian's Veil of Time.

 

I suspect we may see a wider range of anti psychic abilities as armies get rolled out. 

[Malakithe]

7 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

My understanding is that you do not cast psychic powers anymore and they cannot be denied. Smite is just a regular shooting attack with the PSYCHIC keyword. Veil of Time is an always-on buff with the PSYCHIC keyword.

 

We have already seen a defensive ability that triggers of that keyword. The Psychic Hood provides a 4+++ against wounds caused by PSYCHIC attacks. But there is no generic Deny mechanic anymore so one Librarian could not block another Librarian's Veil of Time.

 

I suspect we may see a wider range of anti psychic abilities as armies get rolled out. 

Well that sounds kinda :cuss:ty. I wonder how that will work for TSons

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Well that sounds kinda :cuss:ty. I wonder how that will work for TSons

 

I guess we will have to wait and see. So far we have only seen 2 psychic powers and both are on a single Character. My guess is that there will more psychic powers on the downloadable datasheets with more in the official codices when they get released.

 

As for the lack of casting and denying, I don't see that as a problem necessarily. Other Characters provide buffs to their squads that cannot be negated (Captains, Lieutenants etc) and deal damage that cannot be denied. Making powers always work makes them more reliable and saves on rolls. It also puts Psykers on a more even footing with other Characters.

 

It was a problem that Psychic powers in 9th had become a case of "Go big or go home". Armies like 1KSons and GKs dominated the psychic phase and could deny almost all opposition which meant that bringing just 1 psyker in a TAC list was rarely worthwhile. He could not deny enough powers to make a difference and could rarely cast his own reliably. Now taking 1 or 2 Psykers is viable without having to go all out.

 

Yes it is different to what came before and that will take some getting used to but I think we will still see a range of damage, buff and debuff abilities across various factions as well as certain anti-psyker abilities in due course. But I regard it a a positive development that psychic powers will not longer be all-or-nothing.

[danodan123]

14 hours ago, Rain said:

The organization and nomenclature has nothing to do with what wargear the given warband uses. It doesn't matter if your army is a Word Bearers Host that still operates under a nominally centralized command structure, or a rabble of World Eaters drawn from 3 different Heresy Era companies and united under an especially choppy Chaos Champion that operates separately from all other World Eaters warbands. Assuming the force is made up of Astartes that are, at least in part, Heresy veterans, said Astartes should have Heresy-era gear. Yes they scavenge loyalist gear, etc., but it should still be an option. In fact, back in the day, this was why CSM didn't have multi-meltas or man-portable plasma cannons, but did have Reaper Autocannons, and combi-bolters, with RA being Heresy era proto-assault cannons, and combi-bolters being Heresy era proto-storm bolters.

 

The point is that the aspect of CSM that many players enjoy is being able to play an army of Heresy veterans still active in the "current" time period, and that the weapons and vehicles of such a force should indeed be closer to a HH army than a modern Marine army, irrespective of if the given Legion still operates as a cohesive force, or as a disparate collection of warbands united by color scheme, culture, and legacy.

 

I think the main aspect of CSM is to play chaotic space marines, or, chaos humans, no? Forget heresy or 30k, think 40k, as anyone looking to get into the hobby will look at 40k before knowing anything about them being veterans etc.

 

Each to their own I guess, everyone has their own reasons.

 

To be honest, I think they're looking forward to show CSM as veterans, by way of their gear is now 'old' gear due to all the primaris getting new weapons, I don't see them changing this, it sure would be nice though!

[MegaVolt87]

I actually did a rewrite of the 9th ed CSM Dex in an excel file to capture my vision. When we get the 10th Ed Dex, I'll update it and work out something with the mods to host it here. If GW won't give us HH era Legion representation, thenI will.  

[Rain]

Just making it so FW vehicles no longer cost a CP each is probably all we can hope for. Realistically they will never give us Volkite weapons, or HH Legion-specific infantry like Tyrant terminators or Terror Squads. But, I have a Contemptor and an (unbuilt) Spartan for my World Eaters that I want to be able to use withot paying a CP tax for no good reason.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

We'll have a while to wait.  Chaos Marines are on the codex roadmap that was posted, but not in 2023.

[WrathOfTheLion]

9 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

We'll have a while to wait.  Chaos Marines are on the codex roadmap that was posted, but not in 2023.

Plenty of time to hit the ground running, just learn the index and have fun with that while we wait for the codex.

Edited April 30, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion
grammar

[danodan123]

Excited to see the rules for the beastmen.

 

Hopefully they expand the traitor guardsmen, maybe just let us use some Guard tanks?

 

Hope we can still have cultists with guns and special weapons, leading to a cool thematic mortal list with some elite Chaos Marines (chosen?), could be possible!

[WrathOfTheLion]

Our article should be up tomorrow I think, as it's shown greyed out at the bottom of the nid article. Should be interesting.

[danodan123]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Our article should be up tomorrow I think, as it's shown greyed out at the bottom of the nid article. Should be interesting.

 

Have they said its one a day? Todays article simply says later this week.

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

 

Have they said its one a day? Todays article simply says later this week.

I mean, it could be Friday, but there's hardly too many more choices than that 

[RolandTHTG]

I'm expecting to see our Faction rules, our index detachment rules, Abaddon, and maybe a unit like terminators (Recent sculpts, can contrast with a shown space marine unit.) 

[Zeruel]

I know it's only likely a day or two wait for the article anyway but my prediction is Marks of Chaos becoming our faction rule. I could see marks just be factored into every unit's point cost, have them implement an Undivided mark as the default and then any unit can just swap to another mark if they choose. I also wouldn't be surprised if our first detachment rules are just like how Marines Doctrines work with Wontons but obviously each doing something different from what Marines do.

[MadEdric]

Can we hope that Undivided marks might have a use. I'd love for my Iron Warriors to be Undivided, but taking a Mark is is often much better than not. 

[sitnam]

35 minutes ago, MadEdric said:

Can we hope that Undivided marks might have a use. I'd love for my Iron Warriors to be Undivided, but taking a Mark is is often much better than not. 

It really depends on how the Marks turn out. Perhaps each one confers a USR, since those are a thing again. 

 

I hope  Possessed, Warp Talons, etc can be marked again. 

[MadEdric]

24 minutes ago, sitnam said:

It really depends on how the Marks turn out. Perhaps each one confers a USR, since those are a thing again. 

 

I hope  Possessed, Warp Talons, etc can be marked again. 

We can hope, plus give us our HQs jump packs and bikes.