BA and Tenth Edition - Facts Discussion

[Jolemai]

Note, this is not a wishlisting thread and I will purge such things.

 

Warhammer Community is drip feeding us snippets and teasers with regards to the new edition, and these articles are appearing for discussion in the NR&A:

 

+ NEWS, RUMORS, AND BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS + - The Bolter and Chainsword

 

However, these discussions will be (quite rightly) more generalist in their approach. What we don't have in the BA slant on things, and this is what this thread will be for. Discuss the changes with your BA hat on, how you feel you can use it with your collection, how we can continue to push our faction for the new edition.

 

[Jolemai]

Links:

 

Army Building

Core Rules Leak - NR&A Discussion

Core Rules Download

Datasheet

Faction Focus - Space Marines

Faction Focus - Space Marines Chapters

Faction Rules

Leaders

Leviathan Datasheets

Missions

Psychic and Morale

Relic Units Going Legends

Terrain

Transports

Vehicles

Weapons

 

BA Index

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Jolemai
Updated!

[Helias_Tancred]

Personally I've loved every new rules leak I've read ... but there is one that I'm a bit nervous about, faction rules. Does that mean for my BA army I can run faction rules which are normal for us, or say I wanted to build a more shoot BA list choose instead faction rules that would help out that sort of list? I'd love to know the answer. 

[Jolemai]

Something like that..  I think. 

[Paladin777]

Having things like chainfists with their 'anti-vehicle 3+' seem like they're going to be a must for us with vehicle toughness going up as much as they are.

 

Makes me wonder about the viability of Thunder Hammers for anti-vehicle use. It could certainly make them much less of an auto-include. To be honest, I'm actually pretty ok with that. Seems like that would be good for list diversity.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Paladin777

[Jolemai]

Weapons added.

[Paladin777]

The weapons changes are interesting, but I'll have to wait until everything's out before making a judgment call. 

 

That said, it really looks like GW is trying to make things that are supposed to be tough, actually be tough!

 

less shots from TL guns, lowered AP on many weapons, higher toughnesses... honestly, I'm kind of a fan of that. Rocket tag isn't really very fun. 

[Blindhamster]

issue i have, is that space marines themselves are no tougher. Obviously they can't be, because it would cause problems, but still.

[The Unseen]

Meltas arent looking so hot. Ba dum tish.

But more seriously, wounding on 5s vs actual tabjs with no bonus and having to get really close to have the damage be consistent means why bother? I doubt they nerf other meltas ranges and the MM might be different, but a regular meltagun is going to struggle to put wounds on a rhino, much less everything else that's tougher. 

 

When krak missiles are higher strength, similar AP, and same damage?

And who knows what lascannons are going to look like, probably str10? 

 

Should've been natively a more consistent damage, like 2d3, and a bonus to wound up close. Guess melta is getting the "too good last edition" treatment.

 

Wonder if it'll end up being like HH 2.0, where it's all lascannons for tank killing

 

The bolt rifle change is good, but between that profile and the storm bolter, the original doesn't have a lot of room to be good. Probably be stuck with a pea shooter for Firstborn, Chaos, and Sisters yet again.

[Jolemai]

It's looking like a bolter will be a Rapid Fire 1 stormbolter, yes.

[Spagunk]

Seems interesting/weird that bolt rifles are now 24". What are bolters going to be now? Is there any difference? Perhaps bolt rifles get Assault+Heavy while regular bolters just have rapid fire (1)?

Edited April 14, 2023 by Spagunk

[Loishy]

So far so like  what they have presented on Warhammer community.

 

I’m especially love the fact that there are only one profil for the bolt rifle and the toughness increase for the tanks.

I would also like an increase on toughness for the infantry to have more difference between humans, Astartes, Eldars, orks Death guard, etc. But maybe it’s better to have a big gap between tank and infantry. We will see.

A little bit worried about the OC and the Battleline units. I was expecting more difference, but I feel like all battleline infantry have OC2.

[Paladin777]

44 minutes ago, Spagunk said:

Seems interesting/weird that bolt rifles are now 24". What are bolters going to be now? Is there any difference? Perhaps bolt rifles get Assault+Heavy while regular bolters just have rapid fire (1)?

Maybe regular bolters have two shots base and rapid fire 1, giving a potential 3 shots at half range. That would give them a little bit of their own niche and not be completely outclassed in every way. 
 

that said, if they are just 24", 1 shot, rapid fire 1, with 0 AP, that'll just be sad. 
 

In other news, I'm a little concerned that intercessors have the same OC as gaunts... and presumably tougher cheap infantry like Orc boyz. I can see intercessors getting outnumbered pretty easily. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Paladin777

[Loishy]

As the bolt rifle is 24" now, can we expect the regular bolter to be only 18" ? 

I also  hope that all the bolters will be the same, no more bolter, occulus bolter, bolt carabine, markman bolt carabine,etc... it's the same weapon on the minis !

[Paladin777]

That would be fine too.

 

The twin link to rule makes me wonder how lightning claws are going to work now. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Paladin777

[Blindhamster]

40 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

Maybe regular bolters have two shots base and rapid fire 1, giving a potential 3 shots at half range. That would give them a little bit of their own niche and not be completely outclassed in every way. 
 

that said, if they are just 24", 1 shot, rapid fire 1, with 0 AP, that'll just be sad. 
 

In other news, I'm a little concerned that intercessors have the same OC as gaunts... and presumably tougher cheap infantry like Orc boyz. I can see intercessors getting outnumbered pretty easily. 

I suspect the bolt rifle will overall be better than the bolter still, to maintain the niche for intercessors vs tactical squads.

 

and yeah, I’m really interested to see what happens with plasma exterminators, melta rifles, bolt carbines, bolt guns etc

[Paladin777]

That's true. Tac marines would presumably still be able to take a heavy weapon. With vehicles becoming that much tougher, tac marine squads with a lascannon might actually see play. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Paladin777

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Loishy said:

So far so like  what they have presented on Warhammer community.

 

I’m especially love the fact that there are only one profil for the bolt rifle and the toughness increase for the tanks.

I would also like an increase on toughness for the infantry to have more difference between humans, Astartes, Eldars, orks Death guard, etc. But maybe it’s better to have a big gap between tank and infantry. We will see.

A little bit worried about the OC and the Battleline units. I was expecting more difference, but I feel like all battleline infantry have OC2.

I think there needs to be a large gap between infantry and vehicles, otherwise weapons good at killing marines/nobs/custodes will also be good at killing speeders and transports.

 

remember if standard marines go up to T5 or 6 then gravis and terminators need to go up to 7 or 8.

4 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Maybe regular bolters have two shots base and rapid fire 1, giving a potential 3 shots at half range. That would give them a little bit of their own niche and not be completely outclassed in every way. 
 

that said, if they are just 24", 1 shot, rapid fire 1, with 0 AP, that'll just be sad. 
 

In other news, I'm a little concerned that intercessors have the same OC as gaunts... and presumably tougher cheap infantry like Orc boyz. I can see intercessors getting outnumbered pretty easily. 

Intercessors will probably kill gaunts much more easier than the other way around, so theoretically intercessors should be able to kill a lot of gaunts before they get to the objective.

[Paladin777]

 

2 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I think there needs to be a large gap between infantry and vehicles, otherwise weapons good at killing marines/nobs/custodes will also be good at killing speeders and transports.

 

remember if standard marines go up to T5 or 6 then gravis and terminators need to go up to 7 or 8.

Standard intercessors are confirmed T4 and terminators are confirmed T5. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

 

Standard intercessors are confirmed T4 and terminators are confirmed T5. 

I am aware. I was responding to Loishy’s post saying he’d like infantry to go up, and then positing maybe the T gap between vehicles and infantry needs to be large.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Tokugawa]

4 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

That would be fine too.

 

The twin link to rule makes me wonder how lightning claws are going to work now. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Lightning claw could be absorbed into "power weapon" now. A single claw could have same profile(AP-2 dmg1) as power weapon, then a pair grant wound rerolls. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Lightning claw could be absorbed into "power weapon" now. A single claw could have same profile(AP-2 dmg1) as power weapon, then a pair grant wound rerolls. 

This is how they handled it in Codex: Chaos Space Marines in 9th Edition, although didn't quite get where it needed to be. Lightning Claws were moved to just two Accursed Weapons, making that twin linked finishes the transition to a proper representation.

 

So I think this is exactly what will happen given the evidence thus far. Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: World Eaters are both sort of ahead of their time as far as how this wargear transition goes.

Edited April 15, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Paladin777]

While I don't kind power swords/axes/mauls being lumped together, lightning claws being rolled into that would kind of make me sad. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Paladin777

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

While I don't kind power swords/axes/mauls being lumped together, lightning claws being rolled into that would kind of make me sad. 

Yeah LC have been their own thing for a very long time, I hope they don’t get rolled into the power weapon category.

 

would be like rolling PFs and CFs into it

[WrathOfTheLion]

The current evidence is in favor of that occurring given later 9E codexes. However, I don't think there's much more to say besides individual wishes on the matter, which stray from the purpose here, until we get something more concrete.

 

Moving on then, I would assume the Aggressor flamestorm gauntlets will also get Twin Linked, as this now re-rolls the wound roll, unlike the traditional re-roll to hit. This allows it to be combined with the Torrent rule we saw earlier, which I figure has something to do with auto-hitting, as I don't think we've seen the wording yet.