BA and Tenth Edition - Facts Discussion

[Pathstrider]

I suspect there's very little chance of them getting lance weapons right now - it'll probably be relic weapons. New codex and models would be the opportunity for more changes.

 

My question is, how are they going to handle bodyguards? I suspect they won't be on the list of units that a Space Marine leader can join assuming we use the generic index datasheets so generic Captains etc won't be able to join then unless they have an rule (e.g. "counts as" an honour guard)

[Karhedron]

Pretty much every unit has gotten some sort of special rule and I am sure SG will be no exception. Possibly some version of Heirs of Azkellon such as +1 to Hit if the squad includes a Leader. I would sincerely hope BA Captains can join SG and that Chaplains can join DC. Quite frankly if this is not covered, I would just house-rule it until GW catches up.

[Pathstrider]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Pretty much every unit has gotten some sort of special rule and I am sure SG will be no exception. Possibly some version of Heirs of Azkellon such as +1 to Hit if the squad includes a Leader. I would sincerely hope BA Captains can join SG and that Chaplains can join DC. Quite frankly if this is not covered, I would just house-rule it until GW catches up.

I wonder if the fact the Death Company Intercessors rule about a Chaplain being within 12" (rather than leading) suggests they can't join.

 

I agree it'd be pretty bad if they don't include a way for Blood Angel generic leaders to join blood angel specific units.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Pathstrider

[Wugo_Heaving]

3 hours ago, Pathstrider said:

I wonder if the fact the Death Company Intercessors rule about a Chaplain being within 12" (rather than leading) suggests they can't join.

 

 

It is an odd stipulation. Maybe it's an indication that a Chaplain leading a squad gives "Litany of Hate" +1 to hit in melee, and so DC getting full re-rolls on top of that might be too powerful? Although.... that means Lemartes is likely to have a different ability.

 

 

 

[BluejayJunior]

DC not having leaders I wouldn't have a problem with. I can buy the logic that they're too mad to have a leader in the unit (even though that's what the chaplains are for). I still kinda expect chaplains to be able to be leaders of their squads though.

And I fully expect captains to be able to lead Sanguinary Guard squads. That should be an easy enough thing to add to the index. Just a few extra lines that say add Sanguinary Guard to the list of units that X, Y, and Z leaders can lead. 

[Cleon]

It's also possible this is intended to allow multiple DC squads to get a secondary benefit if near the Chaplain leading one of them.

[Paladin777]

@Pathstrider considering that BA are supposed to get their own index and codex, I'd imagine that the necessary adjustments will be made to the data sheets when they're ported over... or barring that, errata'd in as necessary. 
 

to be honest, I'm a little concerned about the possibility of certain units available to space marines at large not being available to blood angels, like in 8th. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[Pathstrider]

@Paladin777 I expect it’ll be fixed for the codex, but is it confirmed we’re getting full index cards? I expect we’ll be using the generic space marines ones - my thinking is this is why red thirst is a detachment ability rather than the faction ability.

[Leonaides]

If honest, I could see sanguinary guard getting a free heroic intervention, even if its been used already elsewhere, -1 to hit in cc from their death masks and then either 2+ to hit in cc or some sort of bodyguard rule (no sniping attached character with precision weapons). Mastercrafted power weapons would be nice too, but I suspect 3 special rules might be more than gw dish out for index units to start with.

[Paladin777]

I'd imagine they might have -1 to hit, but since the character they're supposed to be guarding is also supposed to be in the squad with them, I'd guess they won't get free heroic intervention. 
 

as far as their weapon goes, I expect they'll have either 4 attacks with a power weapon that's D2, or 3 attacks with a power fist. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[Rhavien]

I can see something about heroic intervention as well, as it was a sang guard specific strat in 9th. Also - 1 to hit in cc for the death asks, or maybe they confer some kind of battleshock Malus to enemy units nearby? At least the deathmasks interacted with morale in the past. 

There was also a strat in the past that let them reroll hits (Wounds?) in a turn they arrived from reserves. That was 8th as far as I remember. Maybe even psychic awakening. 

Ironically I no longer wish for an inbuild 6++ as a mastercrafted power armor normally provides. Now that AP has been tamed down you'd need something with AP -5 till you hit the saving throw. 

Guess we have to wait and see. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Rhavien

[Wugo_Heaving]

Looks like a Gladius Strike Force Detachment Stratagem has been leaked (no idea if this is genuine)

 

"Honour the Chapter" 1CP

The unit's melee weapons gain the Lance keyword, and if Assault Doctrine is active, they get an additional -1AP

 

So anyone can be Blood Angels now! Not sure how I feel about that for generic marines, (Death Watch would be okay, but any Chapter seems a bit much) but it's a good strat, and shows that keywords can be added to weapons via special rules, which is the exact sort of thing I meant regarding SG. If a Sanguinary Guard leader can at least bestow this to their unit even just once per game for free that'd be sweet.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Wugo_Heaving

[DemonGSides]

ONE UNIT gets to be BA for a SINGLE CHARGE, for the cost of 1 CP, and it has to be the right doctrine.

That feels like a fair trade to me.

Edited June 7, 2023 by DemonGSides

[Cleon]

Or, we can make a Blood Angel unit feel Blood Angel if we are choosing to use the Gladius Detachment for some reason.

 

Lets look at the bright side 

[Paladin777]

And the amount of advance+charge makes playing BA style in gladius (minus DC and SG) very viable. 
 

Assault terminators anyone?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

My understanding is you can still run DC and SG in a Gladius. In fact army wide Advance + Charge for one turn with the Assault Doctrine would be very Blood Angelish, even without Red Thirst.

[Karhedron]

A Character with Adept of the Codex could be really useful to lead a big squad of SG as it allows the units to Fallback and still shoot/charge. On a flying unit, this would allow us to get deep into enemy lines and maintain our ability to strike first.

[Jolemai]

Do we know what "Battleline" is yet?

[Blindhamster]

Just now, Jolemai said:

Do we know what "Battleline" is yet?

A keyword, you’re allowed up to 6 of any battle line units instead of 3. Seems like a lot of them will be the higher OC units too

[Karhedron]

Battleline seems to be roughly units that were Troops in 9th (although not all them). I imagine Tactical and Intercessor squads will be Battleline, not sure about HINTs, Iniltrators and Incursors.

[Jolemai]

According to the GW website, Tactical Squads don't have it  

[Karhedron]

5 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

According to the GW website, Tactical Squads don't have it  

 

Hmm, and so it begins! 

[BluejayJunior]

Someone pointed out elsewhere, that the keyword search probably isn't correct yet. It's still missing things like Ahriman not showing up in characters. So I wouldn't read too much into that yet. I expect Tacticals will be battleline. 

 

[DemonGSides]

Mortarion doesn't get put under the "fly" keyword on the DG listings, so I would REALLY hesitate to make any definitive noises about anything based on the webstore, which is notorious for being pretty poorly sectioned after trying to get anything more specific than a faction.

[Paladin777]

One thing that has me a bit worried is the 'no model, no rules' and Jump captains/lieutenants. That might be the thing I'm most nervous about, though I wouldn't be too surprised if we get a kit when our codex comes out... whenever that is.

 

I guess we'll see soon.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Paladin777