How do you feel about the Militia PDF, and has it inspired any new list ideas?

[lansalt]

3 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I feel like GW doesn't want the list to stand alone

Indeed, my impression it's that Militia is supposed to be used almost always as allies/cannon fodder. Making a full army requires a crazy amount of infantry and vehicles beyond the patience of most players.

[The Scorpion]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:28 PM, Marshal Mittens said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/18/the-imperialis-militia-joins-the-horus-heresy-in-a-new-exemplary-battles-download/

 

Personally I have a few ideas kicking around, but so much on my plate with my Dark Angels and Sons of Horus, and life in general, that my desire to run a massive horde army of beastmen with volkite will have to wait for now. 

 

The Malcador has a Vanquisher Cannon option too; does this mean a plastic Malcador in the future?

 

I'd be so down for a plastic Malcador, but it is unlikely to happen.

It would get released for 40k guard if it were the case.

[Gorgoff]

I think the Malcador still stinks and has horrible rules so no loss.

[Marshal Mittens]

14 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

I think the Malcador still stinks and has horrible rules so no loss.

It looks cool! 

 

I would buy a few.

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I'm not going to use this army list. Well, at least, in a near future. But I think I'm going to assemble some extra volkites and similar weapons. Both for infantry and vehicles. And maybe, who knows, a pair of new units. Because now weapons like volkites and flamers, with this army list, get a new value.

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, Doghouse said:

 

My point is we didn't write it off, we kept doing what we were doing regardless of GW support and kept badgering them which is why it's not just nothing at all anymore thanks to people inside Forgeworld like Will Hayes and Mark Bedford who were of the same mindset getting the ball rolling after the Badab series. 

 

Maybe it could be as simple as they didn't intend the Chimera to be available to militia? It could that there are only a few options that have ten man squads and everything else focuses on physically larger or numerous units so beyond Survivors of the Dark Age there isn't a need.  

 

I understand where you are coming from saying they are only making rules for new models because I am cynical of modern GW as well but objectively that has always been the case since they started Warhammer back in 1983. But in this instance they also included stuff we might already own, the Russ and Ogryns are older kits and the likes of the guard models for example have been available for decades in one form or another. Yes you could buy the new stuff but that is the reason we get editions of games of all of the main systems, you could carry on using your last edition army or buy the brand new sparkly hotness but the push is always going to be to get us to buy more stuff. 

 

I personally don't think the intention of this PDF is to purely sell models in this instance as I don't think there are enough Heresy militia players for this to appeal to, to me I think it's one of least cynical releases I have seen from GW in ages and it's free. The options this list provide have gone down really well with the majority of people I have spoken to but again that is just my personal experience. To me it feels more like the days of the old Citadel Journals.

 

 

I mean ya, if you want to use a chimera, just rustle up the 6th edition points or something and get the group to give the ok. But getting the official stamp from GW? Very small chance.

 

The main reason is that it wasnt an option in 1, and if it wasn't added in the pdf for sales purposes like the marine bunker or the cargo 8, then petitioning a pdf is unlikely. The reason why other old kits are in the list is because they were there in 1st, back when the list was less...cash grabby, and more about the customization; they both lost options in the transition. 

 

And it certainly is coming out now to sell models. Andy hoare said it was delayed to incorporate the new guard and renegade models, and suprise surprise; various new units were directly added in, and options were shuffled to line up with the new kits. It's not like it was delayed for any other reason; the only original stuff is the militia sub type. They literally could have used the 1st edition list at the same time as Imperialis and said "use the weapon profiles there".

[Doghouse]

I think we both have the same view of GW but coming at the list from different angles, I can most certainly see your perspective though. In this incredibly rare instance however I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt.

[Marshal Rohr]

I love it. I'm hoping we get a legends list that includes Trojans/Atlas/Destroyer/Thunderer and options to make Tauros and Centaur like vehicles. 

[Noserenda]

I think the Imperial Army suffers from too many chefs, over too long. With the original design planning for 3+ army lists and the current one begrudgingly having two so far with both seeming to have been heavily revised at times and really suffering from the deliberate nerfs to artillery and blasty tanks which was like half the lists killing power as basic oomies.

I still find it weird that people think stuff is rarer in the 30k period, at the peak of the Imperium's "tech level", theyve forgotten ten times more than they invented in the 10k years following. Especially basic :cuss: STC tech like chimeras...

Valkyries pop up in a few of the OG card art that became visions of the heresy, and im pretty sure Malcadors chosen deployed from them in one short, possibly others.

That and always remember GW believes in loose canon (its easier lol)  and will fully shift any and every thing to sell toy soldiers, the whole setting is ultimately a marketing exercise at a basic level. A cool one, but it would have happened without toy soldiers to sell.

[TheTrans]

So after talking about the list over the weekend with mates... 

It really is a slap in the face, with some glitter thrown in your eyes to try and take the sting off it.

At the core of it, the list from a gaming perspective, if vs-ing even moderate legion lists, it will get absolutely trounced. 

The Militia and Third-Line sub types where completely unnecessary and honestly have hammered an already weak list into oblivion. Like Solar Aux weren't blowing open any Meta's but this list is Solar Aux-Minus. With no added benefits. Like Solar Aux are already pretty rudely priced compared to their legion counterparts...but hell, look at the Grenadiers. the elite of Militia. 

 

Grenadiers may as well be  Solar Aux Las Rifle Sections with worse baked in special rules (and close order is a pretty :cuss:ty rule) that have the support squad special rule, no options for a dedicated transport and if you give them all bolters...they are only 5 points less than a naked Tac squad... let that sink in for a minute.

The "expanded" Provenance rules are really split up version of the older, good ones, or new ones introduced to sell models that align with the IG release.. 

I used to run a pretty niche air-cav list with Militia and Cults and it could operate without any provenances if needed, the new one requires provenances to have even an iota of use out of the lists (and the air-cav list is flat dead in the water...).

Like if you want to buy and build 1000 models, GW will love you long time for it, but at the end of the day, the 2.0 mentality of 'If it isn't marines, it shouldn't be played" is still very strongly there. 

/rant. 

[No Foes Remain]

After having a few days to think about it I'm binning my idea of using the Militia list to make a Army force like you could in 1.0. Like TheTrans said above, the 'miltia' and 'third-line' sub types just counter any play that I had, doesn't matter if you get 'Warrior Elite' if you get charged enough you will eventually fail (like in DnD, make a target take enough saves and it will eventually fail).

 

Instead I'm just going to use the Solar Auxilia list for them and re-work their background to have them on-par with them.

[Marshal Rohr]

You can Run a Chimera/Aurox by taking a Cargo 8 with Armored Container. 60 pt base TC 12 with the right AV on each facing. Only difference is Weapons, but the Cargo 8 gets decent Grenade Launcher options to mix with Heavy Stubbers. My plan is to build them like the old Storm Chimera conversion with the turret moved back and Krieg Stubber for the main weapon. 

 

As for Army Comp, Force Commanders arent 0-1 so you can take 3 and Cadre retinues that don't use up slots.

 

Right now the plan is:

 

HQ

FC and Cmd Cadre

Cmd Cadre

6 Discipline Masters

 

Troops

3 Infantry Squads

3 Infantry Squads

3 Infantry Squads

3 Infantry Squads

6 Fire Spt Teams

6 Fire Spt Teams

 

Elites

8 Medicae

3 Cannons

3 Cannons

 

Heavy Support

3 Earthshakers and 20 Gunners

 

 

Then I'll come back and do fun conversions like Krieg Fallshrijaegers and Grenadiers/Engineers as an Allied Detachment.

 

It kinda sucks we can't really use Warrior Elite to make Mainline Imperial Army units that sit between Solar Auxilia and Militia anymore with the Thirdline rule making tanks a waste, but I think the way around this is to build your army as Militia, fill it with Bodies and Artillery, and then use Solar Aux Armor in the Allied Slot to get the good tanks. An allied detachment with Armor Cohort can hit 12 tanks in Troops alone. 

 

[Galron]

I like that list Rohr, not sure the point of medics though. S6 and better negates them. 

 

The allied SA tanks is a decent way to make a normal full guard force without the incomprehensibly stupid bad ones in the militia

[Marshal Rohr]

I have the models is really the only reason :D

 

I'm also currently in the process of building a Militia Army AND a Cult army, with the ultimate aim of trying out a 'No Power Armor' type campaign, so only Solar Aux, Militia, Cults, and Daemons. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Harrowmaster]

14 hours ago, TheTrans said:

So after talking about the list over the weekend with mates... 

It really is a slap in the face, with some glitter thrown in your eyes to try and take the sting off it.

At the core of it, the list from a gaming perspective, if vs-ing even moderate legion lists, it will get absolutely trounced. 

The Militia and Third-Line sub types where completely unnecessary and honestly have hammered an already weak list into oblivion. Like Solar Aux weren't blowing open any Meta's but this list is Solar Aux-Minus. With no added benefits. Like Solar Aux are already pretty rudely priced compared to their legion counterparts...but hell, look at the Grenadiers. the elite of Militia. 

 

Grenadiers may as well be  Solar Aux Las Rifle Sections with worse baked in special rules (and close order is a pretty :cuss:ty rule) that have the support squad special rule, no options for a dedicated transport and if you give them all bolters...they are only 5 points less than a naked Tac squad... let that sink in for a minute.

The "expanded" Provenance rules are really split up version of the older, good ones, or new ones introduced to sell models that align with the IG release.. 

I used to run a pretty niche air-cav list with Militia and Cults and it could operate without any provenances if needed, the new one requires provenances to have even an iota of use out of the lists (and the air-cav list is flat dead in the water...).

Like if you want to buy and build 1000 models, GW will love you long time for it, but at the end of the day, the 2.0 mentality of 'If it isn't marines, it shouldn't be played" is still very strongly there. 

/rant. 

I definitely think there is an element of "don't play anything other than marines" in 2.0 (looking at the delays to everything else). 

In terms of competitiveness, I don't think this list was ever going to be about powerful builds or being able to go up against marines. In 1.0 and even now it's mostly about creating a fun themed force that doesn't fit into the mold of anything else (even if the provenances are quite different now). 

 

I do agree that the militia and third line subtypes do not help matters, but they are on the theme I guess. I do wish there was a way to remove them with provenances (and maybe there will be in the future). Third line at least has the saving grace of not giving away VPs.

I don't think it's the end of the world though because the list can always be revisited by GW in the future, and I think we may be getting regular imperial army (I would hope so anyway as it can't be emulated as well now). At the end of the day the militia list still lets you customise your force as you see fit. Mine needs a few tweaks but I think I can actually do more with it this edition. 

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong or that it's not disappointing in some ways (it definitely is), just that I personally think there is some good in it. 

 

Edit: Grammar. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Harrowmaster

[WolfLogic]

I like the new militia pdf for at least one reason, that being the lore introduced. I'm very interested in the blurbs about the Baneblade, Flak Armor, and Carapace Armor. To see more of the Imperium at its height is always a guilty pleasure of mine. I was surprised to learn that Flak Armor and Carapace Armor at the time of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy seemingly doesn't utilize ceramite in its makeup. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the blurb for Carapace Armor, which is what give me that assumption, but that's what I'm getting out of it. 

 

The Baneblade starting to be relegated to militia units in favor of more advanced or specialized war machines was definitely interesting. In 40k it's always viewed and talked about as an indomitable machine of war, only matched by titans or other super-heavies. 

[Harrowmaster]

I haven't had the chance to go through the lore in the detail that I would like. That being said what I did read was very interesting. They are really pushing the PDF with out of date weapons here (regardless of what provenance you choose). This wasn't really the case in 1.0 and the change is part of the reason I think we might be getting regular Imperial Army at some point down the line (in which case I might as well file for bankruptcy....).

It is cool that the Baneblade is seen as substandard, I suppose with the sheer quality and quantity of things like the mastodon no one is going to want the equivalent of a WWI battleship on tracks. 

 

Edit: Spelling. I always notice the errors just as I hit save....

Edited April 26, 2023 by Harrowmaster

[spafe]

So I have some initial thoughts, as I played them as an ally to my IW in a 3k game against 2 mates using 1.5k of NL and WE. I lost, badly. I was 2 VP behind at the bottom of turn 3, and we called it for time, I would have likely been tabled turn 4 (with luck) or turn 5 (without luck).

 

I ran a rushed together list, so my synergy wasnt good. Okay, prefixes out the way, my lsit was:

 

commander, warrior elite and legacies of the great crusade. I also took marcher lord to counteract fear.

command squad

10 man grenadier

10 man grenadier

20 inf squad

20 inf squad

40 levy

40 levy

40 levy

gorgon

 

My list was.... lacklustre. I adsorbed the worst of the incoming pain onto the militia (as is their role as walking sandbags), and they dutifully disintegrated.  I had a lack of super killy stuff in my IW and the inability to hold the militia there with enforcers meant I was losing huge swaths without being able to hit back in a meaningful way.

 

I'm looking at now using 6 leman russ vanqs, a 20 man grenadier lifeguard squad with volkite and 2x20 man levy units to clog space a bit, and see if that gives me a more hitty element of a list, but overall, not massively impressed with them. 

 

I do massively like my ability to take heavy infantry again though which has allowed me to break out my renegade and heretics list from IA13 thats been in storage for years, so I am enjoying that.

[Dezron]

1 hour ago, spafe said:

commander, warrior elite and legacies of the great crusade. I also took marcher lord to counteract fear.

command squad

10 man grenadier

10 man grenadier

20 inf squad

20 inf squad

40 levy

40 levy

40 levy

gorgon

I would change Provinces to Alchem-jackers and Unending Horde, then replace Gorgon and Grenadiers with either more Levy Squads or more Infantry Squads. Now you have meat to feed Iron Warrior Meatgrinder(TM).

 

1 hour ago, spafe said:

I'm looking at now using 6 leman russ vanqs, a 20 man grenadier lifeguard squad with volkite and 2x20 man levy units to clog space a bit, and see if that gives me a more hitty element of a list, but overall, not massively impressed with them.

 

I suggest going with Kinfolk insted of Armoury. Armoury benefits infantry heavy lists more, while Kinfolk will allow to fix your and allies vehicles.

[spafe]

1 hour ago, Dezron said:

then replace Gorgon and Grenadiers with either more Levy Squads or more Infantry Squads

I mean, I was deploying 186 militia... I was already filling my deployment zone quite well. But yes, other provenances might have suited me better there.

 

1 hour ago, Dezron said:

I suggest going with Kinfolk insted of Armoury. Armoury benefits infantry heavy lists more, while Kinfolk will allow to fix your and allies vehicles.

Is it worth it for... 3 squad leaders needing a 6+ to fix and my hq needing a 5+? compared to upgrading autoguns to 18 volkite chargers and 2 culverin?

[Dezron]

20 minutes ago, spafe said:

Is it worth it for... 3 squad leaders needing a 6+ to fix and my hq needing a 5+? compared to upgrading autoguns to 18 volkite chargers and 2 culverin?

 

Problem is that Leman Russ has thrid-line rule and only two weapons. That means any weapons destroyed result can quicjly turn your tank into paper weight. 

 

Battlesmith gives you chance to bring vehicle back to fight atleast. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Dezron

[Dezron]

11 hours ago, spafe said:

But yes, other provenances might have suited me better there.

 

Some of my Provenances Combos ideas:

• Warrior Elite + Legacy of the Great Crusade = Focus on getting maximum use of Grenadiers and Command Squads BS4, anything else should be used to support them.
• Legacy of the Great Crusade + Armoury of Old Night = Budget Solar Auxilia, get minimum amount of compulsory troops, focus on Grenadiers and Command Squads.
• Armoury of Old Night + Unending Horde = All Levies get Lasrifle, they still suck, but now getting near them is risky.
• Unending Horde + Alchem-jackers = Perfect horde Combo, try to get something to actually kill the enemy thought. 
• Survivors of the Dark Age + Kinfolk Helots = Get as many Land Raiders as possible, use infantry with Battlesmith to support them.
• Cyber-augmetics + Armoury of Old Night = Budget  Skitarii, probably good for Admech list. (Also my personal favorite)
• Industrial Stronghold + Kinfolk Helots = get as many Tanks as you can, support with infantry.

 

 

14 hours ago, spafe said:

commander, warrior elite and legacies of the great crusade. I also took marcher lord to counteract fear.

command squad

10 man grenadier

10 man grenadier

20 inf squad

20 inf squad

40 levy

40 levy

40 levy

gorgon

 

Also you can make it into decent 500 Point Ally list:

Commander - 100 Points

2 x Infantry Squads - 160 Points

120 Levies - 240 Points

 

Total: 500 Points

 

Use it with Unending Horde + Alchem-jackers to get cheap roadbloacks and also split Levies into basic 20 Man Squads to maximize chance for them to return.

[Harrowmaster]

It's definitely very viable as an allied force, particularly with the unending horde and alchem jackers combo. It forces your opponent to deal with them and even then it's not quite over. I can see it being equal parts hilarious and frustrating. 

[Dezron]

44 minutes ago, Harrowmaster said:

It's definitely very viable as an allied force, particularly with the unending horde and alchem jackers combo. It forces your opponent to deal with them and even then it's not quite over. I can see it being equal parts hilarious and frustrating. 

Other viable options I found were:

• Kinfolk Helots + Warrior Elite or Cyber-augmetics - It gives you Mechanicus on budget, focus on Infantry squads (commissars and medics optional).
• Kinfolk Helots + Industrial Stronghold - Tank Army here, Infantry is just Tax here, so you might as well give them something useful too do.
• Warrior Elite + Survivors of the Dark Age - Here you go for as many Land Raiders as possible, you can alos pull Alpha Legion trick and mix normal Legion Land Raiders with Militia ones, just mark them subtlety so you can tell which is which.
• Warrior Elite + Alchem-jackers - Go here full on Artillery guns, should make decent support, just don't let it get flanked.

 

Also weird/broken Provenance combo I thought of:
 

Armoury of Old Night + Industrial Stronghold

 

9 Levy Squads and 9 Infantry Squads is 1800 Points and Gives you 630 Lasrifles on field. Commander is 100 Points. 9 Leman Russes is 1080 Points (you can take less tanks and take more Vanquishers) and then 20 Points on Vanquisher Cannons.

 

Total is 3000 Points. Yeah Levies suck, but you have a lot of them and each is respectably armed.

 

 

 

 

Also Advice for any List building. Focus on getting the most out of chosen Provenances unless you're building Militia Army for fun, then go wild.

[Harrowmaster]

2 hours ago, Dezron said:

Other viable options I found were:

• Kinfolk Helots + Warrior Elite or Cyber-augmetics - It gives you Mechanicus on budget, focus on Infantry squads (commissars and medics optional).
• Kinfolk Helots + Industrial Stronghold - Tank Army here, Infantry is just Tax here, so you might as well give them something useful too do.
• Warrior Elite + Survivors of the Dark Age - Here you go for as many Land Raiders as possible, you can alos pull Alpha Legion trick and mix normal Legion Land Raiders with Militia ones, just mark them subtlety so you can tell which is which.
• Warrior Elite + Alchem-jackers - Go here full on Artillery guns, should make decent support, just don't let it get flanked.

 

Also weird/broken Provenance combo I thought of:
 

Armoury of Old Night + Industrial Stronghold

 

9 Levy Squads and 9 Infantry Squads is 1800 Points and Gives you 630 Lasrifles on field. Commander is 100 Points. 9 Leman Russes is 1080 Points (you can take less tanks and take more Vanquishers) and then 20 Points on Vanquisher Cannons.

 

Total is 3000 Points. Yeah Levies suck, but you have a lot of them and each is respectably armed.

 

 

 

 

Also Advice for any List building. Focus on getting the most out of chosen Provenances unless you're building Militia Army for fun, then go wild.

That's actually a hilarious amount of armour and bodies to thrown down, and most of it won't give away vps. Though it seems like a nightmare to actually manage on the tabletop.

Personally I'm going with armoury of old night and legacy of the great crusade with plenty of artillery to back them up. It's the best way to adapt my warrior elite and survivors of the dark age (with advanced weapons) from 1.0.