Moving from 3k to 3.5k for organized play.

[Marshal Mittens]

I like a big table, it feels slower, and there is more room to maneuver, not everyone running into each other turn 2. I also like big games though, I want 100+ infantry and a few tank squadrons on each side. 

[bushman101]

It takes me about ~3hrs to finish a 3k game. But I'm not practiced and I have to look up rules quite often.

 

I enjoy big games on big tables. Ive done more than a few Apoc games on 4x8 or 4x12. Long ranged weapons matter more, spacing between combats are very different. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

3 hours ago, bushman101 said:

It takes me about ~3hrs to finish a 3k game. But I'm not practiced and I have to look up rules quite often.

 

I enjoy big games on big tables. Ive done more than a few Apoc games on 4x8 or 4x12. Long ranged weapons matter more, spacing between combats are very different. 

And that's okay. The thing to remember is most advid event players play more, and are more polished on rules. Heresy, in my experiences have played longer than others, and most recall the basic core rules from decades of being relatively the same. 

 

For the narrative events there's always more ways to play. The ATC in Chattanooga, TN solo series for Heresy is going to be pretty dope I think.

 

It starts out with ZM/Cent (Mourinval) at like 1500 and then second day bumps each game up by 500 starting at 2500 with restrictions and ending at 3500 no restrictions.  Which is what most of the heresy 2-3 days events do. Moving from 3,000 to 3,500 for a finale isn't game changing.

[bushman101]

5 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

And that's okay. The thing to remember is most advid event players play more, and are more polished on rules. 

True, but as I begin to eye the upcoming Con season, I need to kind of guage what I should play. I don't want to be the guy that stalls the group.

Quick tangent, Con season should be pretty good with 'new and plastic' Heresy and a hopefully post-Covid world.

[MegaVolt87]

I just wanted to say, having to deal with lower points just doesn't feel right. 1500-2500 feels really janky in all the lists I have been building. (The local does smaller games, hoping to convince some for 3k games). My low points builds feel either very undertuned or oppressive. At least the opressive builds scale up fine to viable, the opponents would have a better toolbox to respond at 3k pts. It's definitely a weird meta below 3k pts. 

[Brofist]

Well, I personally like it for those reasons  It forces you to make choices. Taking a rounded list at lower points is a trade-off compared to going all in on some theme or skew that won't have the points to shore up weaknesses. 1500pts is probably a bit... on the lean side if you're using the standard FOC, but at around 2K you've got enough points to do most things.

 

Both formats have their merits of course! I can understand not wanting the pressure to really think about what you bring or just having headspace to take more of your cool models. Feels good to field big units too, like a full squadron of vindis.

[Xenith]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:26 PM, MegaVolt87 said:

having to deal with lower points just doesn't feel right. 1500-2500 feels really janky in all the lists I have been building.

 

1000-1500 points for me is a great level, however reactions begin to dominate. The current reaction allowment definitely feels tuned for 3000+pts, maybe 2500. 

 

At 1500, say I take a lascannon HSS and a contemptor, then a trait that gives me 2x shooting reactions. That's about 1/3 of my army that gets to react in my opponent's shooting phase, and it becomes oppressive. The higher the pt level of games, the lower the % of your army that can act in your opponents turn. 

[MARK0SIAN]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

1000-1500 points for me is a great level, however reactions begin to dominate. The current reaction allowment definitely feels tuned for 3000+pts, maybe 2500. 

 

At 1500, say I take a lascannon HSS and a contemptor, then a trait that gives me 2x shooting reactions. That's about 1/3 of my army that gets to react in my opponent's shooting phase, and it becomes oppressive. The higher the pt level of games, the lower the % of your army that can act in your opponents turn. 

I definitely agree with this. At lower points I find the reactions too much, verging on oppressive. It’s not a system that scales well to lower points games. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

IF you're playing 1250~ 1500, you're probably playing ZM or Centurion at any event/narative. In the case of ZM reactions are much different, its a completely different system dealing with reactions. Centurion has its own limitations/restrictions. So worrying about the strength of reactions is much different than in a normal 2.0 game.

[MegaVolt87]

Mabye a competitive scene for 2.0 HH would be better at 2k-2.5k, while standard play at 3k pts plus? Part of comp play is working with limitations and gaps in a list. 

[Gorgoff]

11 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Mabye a competitive scene for 2.0 HH would be better 

not existent, because GW tends to change their games to their needs if a competitive scene emerges and we saw for decades how bad that is. ;)

I'm only half serious though. Different songs for different people and all that.

I just find it odd because most HH player I know hated the competitive side of 40k and all what came with it ao much that they quit 40k and started HH in the first place.

 

Anyway, I haven't played for month and I miss it dearly but haven't found time for it either. 

[Brofist]

'Competitive' gets brought up a lot in 30k circles. I'm pretty convinced it mostly refers to the toxic culture and monetization associated with organized tournament play, rather than playing games to win with strong lists.

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Brofist said:

'Competitive' gets brought up a lot in 30k circles. I'm pretty convinced it mostly refers to the toxic culture and monetization associated with organized tournament play, rather than playing games to win with strong lists.

 

It's definitely a term that changes its meaning across groups lol. A lot of people use it to mean that toxic culture, but also apply toxic culture to any rules answer that isn't "just 4+ over a pint with your mate". 

 

I personally harken competitive back to tournament prep; trimming the more indulgent options out of a list and playing with the win condition and all the available tricks in mind at all times. So very much the second what you said. 

 

[Brother Sutek]

On 4/24/2023 at 3:01 PM, Gorgoff said:

Around 3 hours or so. Don't know since none of my 3k games lasted longer than 3 turns. Usually that's when it is crystal clear who lost 

Dude your workouts have been paying off! I know you said they were but man this is impressive!

[Gorgoff]

3 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

Dude your workouts have been paying off! I know you said they were but man this is impressive!

Yup, I started bench pressing my pile of shame and here we are.

[Noserenda]

Playing hordes of infantry is a fairly decent arm workout over a campaign weekend :D 

[Brother Sutek]

I started that and have tried to stay focused and my gains have been incredible. My Fantasy armies on the other hand are still out of control. Why do I like playing horde armies so much? Skaven, Empire, Greenskins, Imperial Guard...

[Pacific81]

Reminds me of a 40k tournie I went to years ago; Ork horde player, he had a 2" measuring tool and placed each Ork and then measured the maximum distance to the next Ork in the squad, back when you had the template weapons. The movement phase was insane, felt sorry for the guys playing him.

[Gorgoff]

Just take a big square of 2mm wood. 

Draw 40mm holes 2" apart from each other on it.

Drill out these holes.

Place the square on the table.

Put miniatures in those holes.

Take away the square. 

Unit deployed.

 

[MegaVolt87]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:51 AM, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

It's definitely a term that changes its meaning across groups lol. A lot of people use it to mean that toxic culture, but also apply toxic culture to any rules answer that isn't "just 4+ over a pint with your mate". 

 

I personally harken competitive back to tournament prep; trimming the more indulgent options out of a list and playing with the win condition and all the available tricks in mind at all times. So very much the second what you said. 

 

 

Back late to this topic. Yes, I was more meaning comp HH play to how Skim here says. So the 2k-2.5k pts level seems like the best pts bracket for this. 3k+ pts, you don't just have the toolbox for an army, you have the whole tool factory. Also, for those interested I have justified taking the gloves off with my list building because I have a low model count. Therefore, I need the killing power. (changed out AC HSS to las HSS x10 + arty arm sarge). 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The next event that I'm going to, is this this summer. The final day /mission ends with 3500 points.

 

Day 1 for the Solo Event at ATC starts out with 1250 ZM and 1.5k Centurion, with Day 2 being 2k, 3k, finally 3.5k.

 

 

 

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

So, you need to make 5 different lists for that event? Hum. I have never do something like that in all my years as tournament player. Well, those were other times, other country,...

I'm eager to know more about this type of "mode"

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

The next event that I'm going to, is this this summer. The final day /mission ends with 3500 points.

 

Day 1 for the Solo Event at ATC starts out with 1250 ZM and 1.5k Centurion, with Day 2 being 2k, 3k, finally 3.5k.

 

 

 

 

Interestingly enough we switched the schedule because we made the experience that players tend to get tired till the end so we start with big games and end with smaller ones. That makes it a lot of easier to get tgrough the games as well.

 

@AGRAMAR

Quote

So, you need to make 5 different lists for that event? Hum. I have never do something like that in all my years as tournament player. Well, those were other times, other country,...

I'm eager to know more about this type of "mode"

Horus Heresy Events are usually no tournaments but narratively driven weekends for fans. Sometimes the games have an impact to the next games and sometimes we even use the character development rules from the Black Books. 

Just imagine a three (or 5 in case of a two day event) game mini campaign. 

We at least never play those events as tpurnaments because it sucks and bringt forth the badest habits in a lot of players and army lists are pure pain. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Noserenda]

Escalating points are fairly standard in narrative events ive found, certainly there are benefits to the first game of the day being a bit smaller, or doubles and then ending the event on a big climax. Its as much art as science ofc and it can vary unpredictably by system! 

[OttoVonAwesome]

That sounds so much cooler than a tournement.