Aeldari in Tenth?

[Paladin777]

Just curious about people's thoughts and feelings about tenth. 
 

personally I like most of the things previewed... except psychic powers. I'm very concerned about those. 
 

I suspect the falcon will lose cloudstrike, but that supporting fire ability combined with models being able to exit after moving probably makes up for it!

Edited May 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[Magos Takatus]

Thankfully Aeldari have very few twin-linked weapons compared to a lot of other armies so we won't be hit hard with that nerf.

[Paladin777]

Except for on jetbikes... twin shurikan catapults might end up being gutted...

 

I'm really glad I magnetized mine...

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paladin777

[Emperor Ming]

and if fate dice go, then

[Magos Takatus]

1 hour ago, Paladin777 said:

Except for on jetbikes... twin shurikan catapults might end up being gutted...

 

I'm really glad I magnetized mine...

Yup, I've been testing Scatter Lasers rather than Shuriken Catapults lately for the range (as you said, magnets are great). There's not many other weapons that are twin-linked. I hope they don't ruin War Walkers by making them twin-linked when using two of the same weapon.

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

I hope they don't ruin War Walkers by making them twin-linked when using two of the same weapon.

 

Same with Wraithlords. I currently have a dual Brightlance Wraithlord and a dual Starcannon Wraithlord. Worst case scenario I just swap the weapons over but it would definitely be a pain.

[Zoatibix]

I mainly play Drukhari with only a fledgling Asyurani force but my two concerns are.

 

1. How are glass cannon armies / units going to work in a ‘less lethal’ game?

 

2. Are Wraith units (Coven in my case) going to be allowed to be ‘tough’ compared to Marines?

 

3. Will Aeldari get to show off their technological superiority compared to the Mon-Keigh? Hail of Doom ended up a crutch but a Shuriken Catapult should be better than a Primaris’ Bolt Rifle, IMO 

[Karhedron]

44 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

2. Are Wraith units (Coven in my case) going to be allowed to be ‘tough’ compared to Marines?

 

I do not know. Someone claimed have seen some of the Index datasheets. They said Wraithlords had gone down to T7 and Wraithguard had gone down to T5 and both had lost the -1 Damage rule. I believe the second part since Dreads have lost the -1D rule but the toughness drop sounds wrong to me. Primaris Dreadnoughts are going up to T10 so T7 for Wraithlords does not sound plausible to me on that new scale. Need to wait another 6 weeks I guess.

[Paladin777]

@Zoatibixi get what you're saying about glass-cannon armies.

Again, makes me glad I magnetized my wraithlord too, even if it was a PITA...

 

that said, wraithlords have been tougher than dreadnaughts since at least third edition, so T7 seems absolutely absurd. T7 for wraithblades and wraithguard would make sense though. 

 

However, regular shuriken catapults have never been superior to bolt rifles, and prior to 8th they weren't even better than regular bolters. 9th is the first time even the Avenger shurikan catapult could claim any real superiority to the basic guns of a marine army. Pre 8th, shuriken cannons were also always a side grade to heavy bolters. +1str for shorter range.  So ultimately I doubt that shuriken weaponry will be better than bolt weaponry, as a whole, in tenth. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dr. Clock]

52 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

they weren't even better than regular bolters

Unless you go back to 2nd ed. lol

 

My guess is that shuriken catapults will be 18" Assault 2 BS3+ S4 AP0 but Lethal Wounds (is that the right one? 6s to wound do mortal wound and attack sequence ends? ). Dire Avengers may have AP-1 on theirs.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic that GW is picking their spots for where 'two guns' become 'twin-linked', and for Aeldar my guess is that realistically only the Wave Serpent will go to twin-linked-as-reroll-wounds. Walkers and Lords are 90% certain to retain their 1+1 options seeing as I think the point with twin-linked is that those are the guns that are 'actually/always linked together at the mounting' whereas for walkers and lords those guns are always depicted mounted separately.

 

My guess, at maybe 75% certainty, is that most 'biker' units that have 'two battle rifles' on their bikes will indeed keep the 4 shots they are used to. If you look at the landraider for instance, it has a 2 'godhammer lascannons' each with 2 shots. It hasn't lost shots to 'being twin-linked'.

 

It seems like the twin-linked option they've added to the ruleset is being used pretty conservatively to increase the distance between essentially IFVs and ATVs so that we don't remain in a situation where basically a lascannon razorback is indistinguishable from its immediate cousin (Predator Annihilator with no sponsons). 

 

Even looking at the Ballistus dreadnought, it clearly has what amounts to a two-barreled lascannon, but it keeps 2 shots from it, but its separately-mounted storm bolters... are twin-linked? What gets 'Twin-linked' and what gets 2 shots is clearly just set more by an assessment of what 'feels correct' for the kind of unit than by some clear/unified design standard.

On 5/6/2023 at 9:15 AM, Paladin777 said:

I suspect the falcon will lose cloudstrike,

I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it, tbh. It's felt very Eldar indeed, and a very welcome buff to some aging minis. If it's not there, I hope we at least keep the 'Deep-Strike as a stratagem' option which I've stopped using on account of double falcon fun. If I can use it on like 2 units, I am fine with Webway Strike being one of our 3 stratagems. If not I've got the Spiders and Scorpions I need to keep being a deployment goblin. Equally won't be surprised if Webway Strike becomes a 'Detachment' option, which I'll be fine with as that's probably the 'nudge-nudge-Ulthwé' one we'll see in... 18 months? If the indexes don't come out with at least three detachment options for each army I will have disappoint. Fingers crossed for "Webway Strike detachment', 'Wildrider detachment' and 'Ghostwarrior Detachment', but we may not see that till the Codex. 'Outcast Detachment' too plz?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[Paladin777]

Since the shuriken cannon doesn't have lethal wounds, I'd imagine that other shuriken weapons won't either. Sustained hits is more likely to me, as that's what the cannon has.

 

I'd be nice if cloudstrike stays, but I'm not holding my breath. 
 

it also looks to me like 'twin' of oneshot weapons (lascannons) become two shots, and 'twin' multi shot weapons (heavy bolters) become Twin-Linked. 
 

this all being said, I highly doubt wraithlord and war walker weapons will become twin linked because of the option to mix-and-match weapons on the same model. Though I guess that option could go away too, unlikely as that seems. 
 

Making wraithlord and warwalker weapons TL would also require the creation of additional profiles.

[brother_b]

I think shuriken weapons might get anti infantry. 
 

I’m looking forward to doing a 500 point mini army for Eldar in 10th.

[Paladin777]

The shuriken cannon has been revealed, and it's 24", S6, AP-1, 2D, sustained hits 1.

 

If other shuriken weapons get any keywords it'll probably also be sustained hits, and maybe TL on the vehicle and bike mounted ones.  

Edited May 7, 2023 by Paladin777

[Emperor Ming]

12 hours ago, Zoatibix said:

I mainly play Drukhari with only a fledgling Asyurani force but my two concerns are.

 

1. How are glass cannon armies / units going to work in a ‘less lethal’ game?

Will it be a less lethal game?

 

Whats been previewed so far is tons of attacks with rerolls, lethal, devastating and sustained hits, gawd knows whats to come

 

Unless your trying to kill a tank with a lasgun/bolter, apart from a  slight drop in ap, things looks way more killy to me

[Karhedron]

There seems to have been a modest drop in AP which will be compounded by changing Doctrines to affect flexibility rather than just be an extra point of AP. I would guess Chaos Marines will get similar treatment. I do tend to agree though that it is not look a whole lot less killy at the moment.

 

A shame that Craftworld traits are likely getting reworked. The Iyanden Trait would likely be particularly good in a lower AP edition.

[Zoatibix]

Shuriken Catapults were better than Bolters in RT, too.

 

Sv Mod of -2 compared to the -1 of the Bolter, and sustained fire. 
 

Strength, Range and hit modifiers were all the same.

 

Then Catapults got nerfed into the ground for some inexplicable reason…and CWE got given Star Cannons instead. These were not good design choices.

 

I suspect The Good Doctor’s proposed stats are quite possibly what we’ll see.

 

 It’s my opinion that Asuryani should be more ‘elite’ than the technologically inferior Marines, however.

 

@Emperor MingI honestly don’t know at this stage. For one, we’ve only seen a fraction of the armies, and having models on the table is often different to our simulations.

[Magos Takatus]

41 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

Shuriken Catapults were better than Bolters in RT, too.

 

Sv Mod of -2 compared to the -1 of the Bolter, and sustained fire. 
 

Strength, Range and hit modifiers were all the same.

 

Then Catapults got nerfed into the ground for some inexplicable reason…and CWE got given Star Cannons instead. These were not good design choices.

 

I suspect The Good Doctor’s proposed stats are quite possibly what we’ll see.

 

 It’s my opinion that Asuryani should be more ‘elite’ than the technologically inferior Marines, however.

 

@Emperor MingI honestly don’t know at this stage. For one, we’ve only seen a fraction of the armies, and having models on the table is often different to our simulations.

I've long complained about the 3rd edition changes that gave us "Somme Guardians" that just mass up and run  at the enemy until their embarrassingly short-ranged guns are in range, at which point they are scythed down by bolter fire or equivalent. I've come to terms with it over the years to an extent but my Ulthwé army is themed around Windriders because they are faster, can equip longer ranged weapons  which combine to a considerably longer threat range. I am only fielding on Defender Squad to screen my Avatar and to sit on objectives ever now and then.

 

Nowadays the Shuriken Catapult also has some competition from the Radium Carbine, which in my head fill a similar role, even if the strength stat is different. Both are weapons I would hope GW won't nerf into the ground but we shall see.

[Emperor Ming]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

A shame that Craftworld traits are likely getting reworked. The Iyanden Trait would likely be particularly good in a lower AP edition.

Like the rest of the chapter traits etc, wont they just disappear?

 

I'm pretty sure they will

 

Id guess there's three detachments, one for craftwords, one for clowns one for the yanari. 

[Paladin777]

@Zoatibix Given the Shuri-cannon preview, if I had to put a guess on (avenger) shuriken catapults I'd put money on them being S4, 18", 2shots (3 for avenger), AP-1 (-2 for avengers) and D1. They'll probably also have sustained hits 1 and assault. 

 

nothing else really makes sense, especially anti-infantry.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dr. Clock]

2 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

S4, 18", 2shots (3 for avenger), AP-1 (-2 for avengers) and D1. They'll probably also have sustained hits 1 and assault. 

Certainly a possibility, and one I would be plenty happy with...

 

I'll still be prepared for them to be AP0 naturally, if only to have a baseline to buff with psychic. Hopefully I can go back to 20 guardians with warlock and 2 lances for backfield guard duty, and if Conceal gives +1sv or better yet -1 to hit on 4+ Sv guardians, that might be enough for me to use them instead of, or at least alongside MSU rangers/corsairs. Half the time I still forget guardians are 4+ save now.

 

Still, if sustained hits is the only thing making catapults better than a navy shotgun, I will certainly haz a sad. I suppose lots of other factions' gear will lose Assault keywords too tho, so we'll likely still be faster by a good margin. Honestly I can't tell whether I even want guardians to have better guns than marines because I want them to still be relatively cheap (No more than 100 pts for 10?), and they do need to play second fiddle to aspect warriors... AP-2 Dire Avengers also seems pretty intense for 10th, especially if that means their AP is just better than a Reaper exarch's shuriken cannon.

 

Guardians certainly seem like a reasonable candidate to retain Ap-1 naturally, but it seems a tad unlikely to me just now.

 

Another weird confounding factor is the Corsairs Shuriken rifle, which seems like it might indeed end up as 'a bolter by a different name'? I wouldn't bet on corsairs having essentially par with bolt rifles even though in headcanon that feels mostly fine (maybe the corsairs lose Assault, but just flat 2A 24" BS3+ S4 AP-1 and sustained hits? I'd be fine with that tbh, but again my guess is basically 'AP0' but they might get Heavy rather than Assault?)

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

[Paladin777]

I was guessing that shuriken weapons would keep the current AP because not only did the cannon keep its AP, but because they also seem to be losing the shuriken rule. Sustained hits doesn't quite make up the loss. I could be wrong though. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

On 5/7/2023 at 1:17 AM, Emperor Ming said:

and if fate dice go, then

 

I'll be honest, I really didn't enjoy Fate Dice as a mechanic as it felt like extra admin that the army didn't really need. Particularly for opponents who hadn't played against them all that much, it was a bit obtuse and hard to keep track of. I'll be glad to see it gone to be honest

Sisters are up next so hopefully we'll see Aeldari in the next couple of days

[Karhedron]

I agree, Strands of Fate was a pain and I forgot to use it half the time.

[Kallas]

I hope Strands stays in some form, but maybe not the 9E form as it was basically admin. It was interesting, mechanically, as a way to represent fate manipulation, but definitely a big bookkeeping thing. I only wish I'd built up enough Eldar to play them in 9th, but cost of living is a

[Zoatibix]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I agree, Strands of Fate was a pain and I forgot to use it half the time.

I mean…at least you aren’t the sort of numpty that consistently forgets Battle Focus…