Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Chaos Daemons

[Doctor Perils]

41 minutes ago, AceofCase said:

The weird wording for Lucius being restricted to only Slaanesh daemons seems to confirm that subfactions are very much gone. 

True. More "disappointingly" it means we won't get an EC detachment on release either (in quotes as it was pretty much expected in fairness)

 

Does that mean Epic Heroes will be able to mix and match in a detachment, or that they have to be your warlord I wonder?

[Tokugawa]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

True. More "disappointingly" it means we won't get an EC detachment on release either (in quotes as it was pretty much expected in fairness)

 

Does that mean Epic Heroes will be able to mix and match in a detachment, or that they have to be your warlord I wonder?

I think that hint for temporary EC rules before the faction finally released: an "army of reknown" type detachment which must pick Lucius as warlord.

[Squark]

Choosing only one melee weapon plus any with extra attacks makes a lot of sense given how many more attacks the likes of Guilliman and Abbadon were making with a single weapon compared to similar "tier" characters and monsters in AoS, which may have 3-4, different weapons, but only make a couple attacks with each.

[Dr. Clock]

26 minutes ago, Tymell said:

really emphasises the objective control for Daemons.

Hekkins yes it does! Makes abundant sense to me; guessing that the objectives are where the portals are when you play daemons.

 

Seems like 'extra rules for objectives' is a tool they've decided to use alot more this edition, and I'm here for it. Makes objective capture directly relevant and responsive to different faction methods and themes to really get full mileage out of the new OC stat and Ld system overall.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Large and Moving Torb]

I like quite a bit of what I see here. I assume the basic abilities on the datacard are not considered "Enhancements," but I would like to know specifically what things do fall in that category. Also, depending on how points work out and what OC value Nurglings have, I might be taking them in my DG army instead of cultists for objective campers. Or possibly plague bearers. Lack of points details is really what's killing me in these reveals. 

 

I'm sure World Eaters players will be happy to have a few more options to pull, given their current paucity of units.

[tzeentch9]

Damn that keeper of secrets is powerful, lots of shooting too

[burningsky25]

Agreed; Skarbrand isn't averaging even close to 16 marines per combat.  I like that dice rolling is generally more interactive - things have less ap, so you get to roll more saving throws, but they also get to roll more attacks to still make things lethal.  That means lethality per hit is significantly down.  Skarbrand could have more attacks than 9th and he could still be less lethal.  

I'd almost be worried he's not lethal enough! He has good attacks for heavy tanks and infantry, but against heavy infantry he'll struggle.  I guess with Strike he averages close to 3 kills.  Big change from 9th where generally melee is just trading unit kills, but I like it.

[WrathOfTheLion]

9 minutes ago, Squark said:

Choosing only one melee weapon plus any with extra attacks makes a lot of sense given how many more attacks the likes of Guilliman and Abbadon were making with a single weapon compared to similar "tier" characters and monsters in AoS, which may have 3-4, different weapons, but only make a couple attacks with each.

Yeah, it basically cooks in a sweep vs a strike profile into the attacks characteristic when they have two options, such as the sword/fist for Guilliman and the sword/claw for Abaddon.

 

15 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

True. More "disappointingly" it means we won't get an EC detachment on release either (in quotes as it was pretty much expected in fairness)

 

Does that mean Epic Heroes will be able to mix and match in a detachment, or that they have to be your warlord I wonder?

There could be a more Slaanesh-themed/Emperors Children one when the Codex comes out, but yeah, doesn't look like it will be there during index.

 

I think for Epic heroes you can only take one, but I can't remember. I think it was mentioned in one of the earliest articles.

Edited May 9, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Bradeh]

Because of the 'no model, no rules' and the fact that resin/metal stuff is being rotated out/sent to legends; Emperors Children looks it might be basically dead until their inevitable range refresh.   

Edited May 9, 2023 by Bradeh

[RolandTHTG]

15 minutes ago, Large and Moving Torb said:

I like quite a bit of what I see here. I assume the basic abilities on the datacard are not considered "Enhancements," but I would like to know specifically what things do fall in that category. Also, depending on how points work out and what OC value Nurglings have, I might be taking them in my DG army instead of cultists for objective campers. Or possibly plague bearers. Lack of points details is really what's killing me in these reveals. 

 

I'm sure World Eaters players will be happy to have a few more options to pull, given their current paucity of units.

Enhancements are the Detachment-related Warlord Trait, Relic, etc.  It's a short list that is tied directly to the detachment you've chosen. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Note that it doesn't specify what faction Lucias is Leading.

Part of me thinks that this is a slight future proofing for EC getting moved to their own codex, but leaving the door open for people to actually play their EC CSM army with the Indexes.

 

Also we've got more Psychic Shotguns again, one safe profile and one dangerous profile so looks like this is just how Psykers work now.

The Keeper of Secrets only has the Psychic keyword on their ranged attack, right?

It doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the sheet.

[Arikel]

8 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

 

 

I think for Epic heroes you can only take one, but I can't remember. I think it was mentioned in one of the earliest articles.

You can only take 1 epic hero, so far that seems to be named characters only. Belakor, swarmlord, gulliman and abbadon all have it, so presumably all named HQ’s will. It remains to be seen whether their will be any generic hq’s that have it.

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Also we've got more Psychic Shotguns again, one safe profile and one dangerous profile so looks like this is just how Psykers work now.

The Keeper of Secrets only has the Psychic keyword on their ranged attack, right?

It doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the sheet.

Correct. Only things specifically marked as "psychic" count as psychic attacks.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Arikel said:

You can only take 1 epic hero, so far that seems to be named characters only. Belakor, swarmlord, gulliman and abbadon all have it, so presumably all named HQ’s will. It remains to be seen whether their will be any generic hq’s that have it.

 

So would that mean you couldn't take, say, Guilliman and Calgar in the same list, despite both being Ultramarines?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think it's just the big heroes that are going to get Epic Hero (i.e., primarchs, etc.).

 

So you can't take Be'lakor and Abaddon for instance, but Haarken Worldclaimer would likely not have it, so Abaddon + Haarken would be fine.

[Rain]

Instead of doing what they did with the aligned demons limitation, they should have based it on keyword of the warlord. If the warlord has Khorne keyword and no other god keywords, Khorne demons only, if Nurgle, Nurgle only, etc.

 

If the warlord has all or none of the specific god keywords, you can choose any aligned demons. Would be elegant, thematic, and wouldn’t require Lucius to be “real” EC, but whatever. I guess it also assumes vanilla CSM can still take marks, which I’d hope is the case.

 

I’m looking forward to this. I wonder if I will be able to join my Juggerlord to a unit of Bloodcrushers under the new “leader” rules they mentioned. I want Jugger cavalry damn it. 

[Bradeh]

GW doesn't currently sell Lucius (Don't have rules for units they don't sell.), so it looks like he could potentially be refreshed as a one-off a bit like when Khârn was released, years before World Eaters codex. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Bradeh

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Arikel said:

You can only take 1 epic hero, so far that seems to be named characters only. Belakor, swarmlord, gulliman and abbadon all have it, so presumably all named HQ’s will. It remains to be seen whether their will be any generic hq’s that have it.

Might want to look again. Max of one of each Epic Hero.

[BitsHammer]

Epic Hero is probably just the names character type and allows them to restrict named characters without needing to write it in a restriction on every datasheet.

[Lord_Ikka]

Due to not playing many daemon lists, what I found interesting was that daemons appear to now only have an invuln save. There was a FNP for the Keeper, but both the Keeper and Belakor didn't have an armor save. 

 

I'm hoping that weapons that ignore invuln saves will be kept to a minimum and mostly be melee weapons, as T'au and Votann railguns smashing through both armor saves and invulns were really feel-bad moments.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Emperor Ming]

Ah one melee weapon, that makes far more sense

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Due to not playing many daemon lists, what I found interesting was that daemons appear to now only have an invuln save. There was a FNP for the Keeper, but both the Keeper and Belakor didn't have an armor save. 

 

I'm hoping that weapons that ignore invuln saves will be kept to a minimum and mostly be melee weapons, as T'au and Votann railguns smashing through both armor saves and invulns were really feel-bad moments.

This is how it was in the olden days. Invuln only except for Khorne demons that wore physical brass armor. It’s a themaric quirk of demons being made of warp matter. There was even a demon weapon that hated other demons and would ignore invuln saves, but not regular armor saves.

[Arikel]

15 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

So would that mean you couldn't take, say, Guilliman and Calgar in the same list, despite both being Ultramarines?

Edit: I was wrong

 

Back on track here I like the simplicity of the allied rules they are throwing in. Easy to follow and easy to emulate in friendly games with other faction types. 
 

It would have been nice to see what a basic demon troop  choice would look like though. All flash and spice here, none of the basics.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Arikel

[Indy Techwisp]

7 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

GW doesn't currently sell Lucius (Don't have rules for units they don't sell.), so it looks like he could potentially be refreshed as a one-off a bit like when Khârn was released, years before World Eaters codex. 

 

If they do make a New Lucius model, I hope they also make some new Noise Marine models too.

Needing to buy 2 different upgrade sprues just to make 1 unit of the EC's Cult Marine is a bit excessive.

[tzeentch9]

Epic hero means you can only take one of that epic hero if I remember rightly, not only one epic hero altogether