warhammer 40k 10th edition Reanimation Protocols: 9th v 10th Edition Rules

[Jolemai]

Knock it on the head gents 

[Arkangilos]

29 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

Knock it on the head gents 

I’ll wipe it out completely so it doesn’t come back ;)

[Malakithe]

Ive yet to see anything previewed thats going to just easily wipe out a unit of 20 Warriors in one go. Its just not happening. Those Warriors get on that objective and its over. Opponent shooting 1-3+ units at the Warriors? Thats a win for the Necron player. Charing into the Warriors? Thats still a win. Using vehicles to shoot Warriors? Lol win...and for me and my playstyle there will likely be another unit of 20 Warriors sitting in another spot not moving and not caring. And as the game progresses more stuff heals and less stuff dies due to your opponents stuff dying as well

[Lord_Ikka]

The only thing that annoys me is that now GSC seems to be more about reviving units than Necrons. Any unit they have destroyed comes back on a 4+ the next turn, and Neophytes with an icon have the exact same reanimation rules as Warriors do if they are on an objective (d3 + 3 models returned). 

 

The new Reanimation Protocols are both better and worse than 8th/9th. They are definitely better for multi-wound models; if you lose one or two models you are highly likely going to be getting one back the next turn as long as the unit is still around. Compared to 9th, you would have a very low likelihood to reanimate something like Skorpekh if you kept losing one or two to chip-shot damage. 

 

It is slightly worse for one-wound models like Warriors or Immortals (if they have 1 Wound still...), depending on the situation. If an enemy can focus down a unit of Warriors, the 9th ed Reanimation Protocols made it much more likely that they would stay around. If they do survive the round of getting attacked, and especially if you are on an objective, the Warrior squad using 10th ed protocols will be usually better. As @Malakithe said though, losing an entire squad of Warriors is not that bad and most Necrons players can afford to have the enemy focus on something like Warriors rather than more valuable units. 

[Malakithe]

57 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

The only thing that annoys me is that now GSC seems to be more about reviving units than Necrons. Any unit they have destroyed comes back on a 4+ the next turn, and Neophytes with an icon have the exact same reanimation rules as Warriors do if they are on an objective (d3 + 3 models returned). 

 

The new Reanimation Protocols are both better and worse than 8th/9th. They are definitely better for multi-wound models; if you lose one or two models you are highly likely going to be getting one back the next turn as long as the unit is still around. Compared to 9th, you would have a very low likelihood to reanimate something like Skorpekh if you kept losing one or two to chip-shot damage. 

 

It is slightly worse for one-wound models like Warriors or Immortals (if they have 1 Wound still...), depending on the situation. If an enemy can focus down a unit of Warriors, the 9th ed Reanimation Protocols made it much more likely that they would stay around. If they do survive the round of getting attacked, and especially if you are on an objective, the Warrior squad using 10th ed protocols will be usually better. As @Malakithe said though, losing an entire squad of Warriors is not that bad and most Necrons players can afford to have the enemy focus on something like Warriors rather than more valuable units. 

Living Metal is also baked into the new RP making it slightly different then what GSC got. Being able to heal vehicles and characters is a nice bonus on top of popping up Warriors non-stop. Getting a full unit back is pretty cool though. Guard also have that in a strat as well. I guess they want horde armies to really be horde armies now 

[Tyriks]

The other factor that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is OC.  If I have 3 units holding/contesting objectives and the enemy focuses one down to remove it, it means those other two keep holding on at full strength.  That could have a huge impact if OC ends up mattering a lot.  And it's incredibly common to see people try to wipe a unit and fail even in 9th - that will hurt a lot in 10th when it happens.  I'll take these RP over the old ones any day.  I am just tired of whiffing on that 5+! 

[Lord_Ikka]

I was wrong in my interpretation, GW cleared it up on page 5/13 of the Rules Commentary- 

"End of the Phase/Step: Rules that specify that they take place at the end of a phase/step only take effect after any other rules that would take place in that phase/step have been resolved. This means that it is not possible for a player to make use of any rules that would take place during a phase/step once an end-of-phase rule has taken effect. The next phase/step does not start until after all such rules have been resolved (for rules used at the end of the Command phase, see Rules Used at the End of the Command Phase).

 

Rules Used at the End of the Command Phase: While most rules used in the Command phase have to be used in the Command step of that phase, if a rule explicitly specifies that it takes effect at the end of the Command phase, then that rule takes effect at the end of the Battle-shock step of the phase, instead of in the Command step."

 

So unfortunately, we have to do our Battle-shock tests before our Reanimation Protocols. Oh well- time to get res orbs for RP each command phase!

[Bonzi]

Here's my question in regards to reanimation in 10th, and hopefully someone who has read and understood the rules better than me can answer.

 

20 Warriors are joined by an Overlord forming and Attached Unit.  Both individual units have Reanimation separately.  What happens in regards to Reanimation when a sniper pings a 3 wounds off of my Overlord and regular shooting kills 3 Warriors?

 

Reanimation rules say the 'unit' rolls for Reanimation.  Does that mean the attached unit makes a single reanimation roll, with the results first going to heal the Overlord then any remaining being used to bring back warriors -or- does the Overlord get a reanimation roll to heal himself and the warriors get a separate roll to bring back lost models.

 

It's basically a question of the difference between 'unit' and 'attached unit' and the rules that go with joining characters.

 

The answer has big impact on what units are best to put characters in and if snipers can be used to effectively reduce the total returning models by harming the attached characters.

[NTaW]

On perusing the rules commentary I've found that attached units share all other things, but unfortunately the section on returning models to the unit doesn't cover RP specifically. For reference,

 

"Returning Models to a Unit: Some rules resurrect or return models to their unit. Such models are added to their unit (see Adding Models to a Unit) along with any wargear and Enhancements they started the battle with. Such rules can never expand a unit beyond its Starting Strength; any additional models that would be returned beyond that point are ignored (the only exception to this is the Split ability of Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors). If such a rule returns models to a unit in the same phase they were destroyed, then for the purposes of allocating attacks later in the same phase, such models do not count as having lost any wounds or as already having had any attacks allocated to them this phase. If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit)."

 

When looking at the rules for RP it doesn't get much more specific.

 

"If your Army Faction is Necrons, at the end of your Command phase, each unit from your army with this ability activates its Reanimation Protocols and reanimates D3 wounds."

 

I think that since both units have the rule on their datasheet the intention is for each to roll separately even when attached, but it's more of a gut feeling than something that is specifically said.

Edited June 17, 2023 by NTaW

[Tyriks]

Having just finished a game of 10th, I definitely prefer RP now over 9th. Between the base rule and Rez Orbs and stratagems and everything, my stuff was coming back all over the place.

[Ahzek451]

I'd say since page 39 of the core rules sa attached units are treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, I'm inclined to say that attached characters dont get their own RP. 

[Lord_Ikka]

Unfortunately, I don't think that you will get two RP rolls because you have a Leader attached to a unit- I think it would work out similar to attacks in that RP applies to a unit not just a model, as the Rules Commentary points out:

" Remember that attacks are made against units, not models."

In other words, once a Leader attaches to a Bodyguard unit, that Leader becomes one with the unit, no longer an independent unit. So RP rules would require you to heal any damage caused by a Precision weapon first and then return models second. 

[Malakithe]

Okay so how does healing work with regards to abilities? If a Leader attached to a Warrior unit takes damage and they are sitting on an objective does the Warriors d3+3 kick in for the Leader first? Does a RezOrb work for the Leader as well?

[Lord_Ikka]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Okay so how does healing work with regards to abilities? If a Leader attached to a Warrior unit takes damage and they are sitting on an objective does the Warriors d3+3 kick in for the Leader first? Does a RezOrb work for the Leader as well?

The way I'm reading it, yes to both- the Leader is part of the unit, and RP prioritizes healing before returning models. So an Overlord with a res orb that has taken four wounds attached to a Warrior unit on an objective with 4 lost models will do the following- during both Command Phases the Necron player rolls for RP for the Warrior unit. 1st turn Necron player rolls a 2- the Overlord gains back 4 wounds and 1 warrior is returned to the unit. 2nd turn, the remaining warriors will return unless the Overlord suffered any damage in the interim. 

[Tyriks]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

The way I'm reading it, yes to both- the Leader is part of the unit, and RP prioritizes healing before returning models. So an Overlord with a res orb that has taken four wounds attached to a Warrior unit on an objective with 4 lost models will do the following- during both Command Phases the Necron player rolls for RP for the Warrior unit. 1st turn Necron player rolls a 2- the Overlord gains back 4 wounds and 1 warrior is returned to the unit. 2nd turn, the remaining warriors will return unless the Overlord suffered any damage in the interim. 

This is how I read it as well.

[Bonzi]

3 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Unfortunately, I don't think that you will get two RP rolls because you have a Leader attached to a unit- I think it would work out similar to attacks in that RP applies to a unit not just a model, as the Rules Commentary points out:

" Remember that attacks are made against units, not models."

In other words, once a Leader attaches to a Bodyguard unit, that Leader becomes one with the unit, no longer an independent unit. So RP rules would require you to heal any damage caused by a Precision weapon first and then return models second. 

That was my gut feeling but I really wanted someone else to ride in on a white horse and tell me that page x line x guaranteed that I could roll both.  Ah well.

[NTaW]

I'm happy to roll with the concencus here. Characters reanimating themselves before their underlings ultimately is the most Necron choice to be made I suppose. A full sharing of rules also makes sense since anything less would become confusing eventually (and there's the Psyker keyword example from the Commentary). I guess we should be careful that Precision shots don't mess with our ability to reanimate troops when we need to.

[Tyriks]

Related question - does something like a Royal Warden give itself +1 to hit because it's in a unit being lead by a character? That feels wrong but I can't see any reason it wouldn't in the rules.

[NTaW]

If the model is attached to the unit it's a part of the unit so gets the buffs associated. I noticed in the SM/BA rules that various Dreadnought auras didn't work on the user because of the keywords, so if they didn't want the Royal Warden to benefit of the rule they could have called it out specifically.

[Xenith]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:08 AM, Lord_Ikka said:

during both Command Phases

 

Holy moly, I didn't realise it was both command phases, that's insane. 

21 hours ago, Tyriks said:

does something like a Royal Warden give itself +1 to hit because it's in a unit being lead by a character?

 

As long as it fulfils it's own criteria, yes! 

[Captain Idaho]

The Strategum Protocol of the Undying Legions has curious interaction with Necron Warriors and characters. It stipulates the unit reanimates at D3 wounds, with D3+1 if led by a character.

 

But the Warriors rules states they get D6 whenever they use the rule... so when led by a character they get D6 still, since their rule is overriding the Reanimation rules.

 

I suppose it would be fairly broken to get D3+1 with the Strategum as well as the D6 in the Command Phase. 2D6 is still pretty good.

[Metzombie]

29 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Holy moly, I didn't realise it was both command phases, that's insane. 

Only in a unit with a Res Orb. Normaly it is only your command phase.

[Lord_Ikka]

27 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I suppose it would be fairly broken to get D3+1 with the Strategum as well as the D6 in the Command Phase. 2D6 is still pretty good.

Keep them on an objective for the d3+3 each time, even better with a res orb. 3d3+9 over a battle round for 1 CP...

Edited June 19, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah 20 Warriors with a Cryptek for Feel No Pain should be a really difficult unit to take down on objectives. 

[Lord_Ikka]

48 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah 20 Warriors with a Cryptek for Feel No Pain should be a really difficult unit to take down on objectives. 

Currently, that is one of my big brick options, adding in a Warden so that they can Advance and Shoot, as a midfield unit that also has the Veil should they really need to move up quick. I'm hoping they hold up quite well. The other is another 20 man group with an res orb Overlord and Chronomancer that can move pretty fast (for Necron infantry). Both are fairly expensive, but require the enemy to use up a lot of firepower to bring down either of them, giving some other units free reign to move around.

 

20 Reaper Warriors w/Warden+Technomancer(Veil) - 360pts
20 Reaper Warriors w/Overlord (res orb/Blade/Warlord)+Chronomancer - 375pts
10 Tesla Immortals w/Plamancer+Cryptothralls - 235pts
10 Lychguard w/Lord (res orb)+Technomancer(Ablator) - 340pts
Nightbringer - 255pts
3 Heavy Destroyers w/Lokhust Lord (res orb)- 220pts
Canoptek Reanimator - 95pts
3 Skorpekh Destroyers - 110pts
Total - 2000 points

Edited June 19, 2023 by Lord_Ikka