Wh40k 10th Edition Tyranids Index

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Nah, it's just our world's need to always be the absolute best.  "If you aren't first, you're last" as Ricky Bobby once said.  It's :cuss:ing nonsense.  When someone started the hobby has no bearing on whether or not they suffer from competitive brain rot; plenty of grognards on these boards and abroad alone scream about the competitive side of things even though they also claim to not play competitively, and just as many will gladly try to play an all dreadnoughts all comers list for fun.  It's a matter of perspective and whether or not you can internalize that we're all just playing jumped up GI Joe's :P

 

Right, but back in the day the options were less...polarized in terms of efficacy. It was way harder to make a complete waste of a unit; you could have games with your themed and narrative army without having to beg your opponent to tone it down to make it past turn 1.

@Karhedron mentions it; there were fewer units, so there could be more options that were relevant. But that narrower field of application allowed for more impact, and a much lower chance of being unable to predict X unit benefiting from Y bonuses. 

 

But times have obviously changed to suit a new design trend. You use the good units because it's silly to waste money on something that basically doesn't function in the game; that doesn't give you "competitive brain rot", it's wanting your units to perform on the tabletop. And you can lament a time when any unit could perform, with the help of thematic and impactful unit upgrades. The evolution aspect for nids used to be biomorphs that tailored units to a given role. Now it's an army wide bonus you choose every round. 

[Khornestar]

These datasheets look really cool to me. I hope my own armies leave me feeling as excited after reading through them.

[Tokugawa]

7 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Alas being in Strategic Reserves does not grant the Deep Strike Ability.

 

However I can't seem to see any rules preventing you from putting a Spore Cyst in a Tyrannocyte to achieve the Deep Strike. There may be something in the Core Rules that prevents models with Movement 0 using Transports but I can't see it at the moment. I am sure this is not legal but it would be utterly bonkers if you pulled it off.

 

RAW, could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte? Could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte which already transporting other model? Maybe no player want to try such meaningless crazy in a real game tho…

[OttoVonAwesome]

Mashing the warrior options together and having no real distinction between primes neurothropes and node beasts  when there is ample space on the datasheet just says laziness to me. It's not that they couldn't find balanced options with determined roles or anything they just could't be bothered so now you got sprues with options that don't matter wich essentially become wasted space.

 

Take Primaris marines for example the three options for the weapons are just aesthetic now? No thanks I'd rather they recut the sprues for melee options and pretty gubbins rather than a bunch of plastic that goes into the garbage and can I be confident in how I build my guys now? No not at all especially considering the codex could change that or 11th brings all the options back and I built a mish mash of bull:cuss: or units that don't do the role I want them to do and gotta start all over cuase I didn't feel I had to magnetize anything.

 

People keep bringing up the wombo combos with stacking aura's and strategems and junk as an excuse to cut all the unit options down but those are apples and oranges and you can clearly see they kept options in where they wanted to spend the time like with the Carnifex sheet. Look at them compared to the warriors and all you see is lost potential. Balance will always be elusive in a game like this that's just a fact and if the game loses all it's flavour in pursuit of that goal then what's the point. 

 

Lastly I expected a bit more from this 2 page rule thing. It's not even 2 pages it's 2/3's of a page of artwork and a 1/3 of actual rules written in huge bold text. This is not looking good.

[Blurf]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Right, but back in the day the options were less...polarized in terms of efficacy. It was way harder to make a complete waste of a unit; you could have games with your themed and narrative army without having to beg your opponent to tone it down to make it past turn 1.

@Karhedron mentions it; there were fewer units, so there could be more options that were relevant. But that narrower field of application allowed for more impact, and a much lower chance of being unable to predict X unit benefiting from Y bonuses. 

 

But times have obviously changed to suit a new design trend. You use the good units because it's silly to waste money on something that basically doesn't function in the game; that doesn't give you "competitive brain rot", it's wanting your units to perform on the tabletop. And you can lament a time when any unit could perform, with the help of thematic and impactful unit upgrades. The evolution aspect for nids used to be biomorphs that tailored units to a given role. Now it's an army wide bonus you choose every round. 

Also, a lot of that is severe rose-tinting. It's people remembering their 'younger days' fondly without taking a critical eye to them. It's the tabletop equivalent of someone who went to Little Rock Central High in the late fifties talking about how people used to have respect for each other.

 

 

[Plaguecaster]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

RAW, could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte? Could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte which already transporting other model? Maybe no player want to try such meaningless crazy in a real game tho…

Tyranid matryoshka doll style with as many as you can take so run a single one on the board but have every other one inside each other would be funny to see 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Plaguecaster said:

Tyranid matryoshka doll style with as many as you can take so run a single one on the board but have every other one inside each other would be funny to see 

Self-replicating spore bomb! Amazing!

 

Now I've managed to somewhat restore my composure (apologies, I'd been having a rough day and also as of 2 hours and 45 minutes ago I'm 27) there is a lot I actually like about these rules- I just REALLY hope they add biomorphs and the like back in for the Codex. The sledgehammer-level homogenization of units really rubs me the wrong way. On the plus side, the rules being free means I don't have to fork out any money to see if the game is worth playing or not.

[MithrilForge]

2 hours ago, Blurf said:

Also, a lot of that is severe rose-tinting. It's people remembering their 'younger days' fondly without taking a critical eye to them. It's the tabletop equivalent of someone who went to Little Rock Central High in the late fifties talking about how people used to have respect for each other.

 

 

Woah... That's not a great Equivalent...   

 

M

[Cryptix]

3 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

RAW, could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte? Could a tyrannocyte transport another tyrannocyte which already transporting other model? Maybe no player want to try such meaningless crazy in a real game tho…

The funny thing is, this isn't even the first occurrence of these questions: the tyrannocyte had these issues back in 7th when they released with Shield of Baal. The more things change...

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Blurf said:

Also, a lot of that is severe rose-tinting. It's people remembering their 'younger days' fondly without taking a critical eye to them. It's the tabletop equivalent of someone who went to Little Rock Central High in the late fifties talking about how people used to have respect for each other.

 

 

 

Yea, remember how you rose tinted the 5th edition rules as longer than the 9th ones? Or how ranged ap2 spam dominated the entirety of 3rd-7th. You don't get to to talk about rose tinting if you never played the editions and codexes being talked about.

 

 

 

 

[Malakithe]

No deepstrike is a bummer but i can still see some fun with giant area denial spores

[ThePenitentOne]

4 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

 

 

Lastly I expected a bit more from this 2 page rule thing. It's not even 2 pages it's 2/3's of a page of artwork and a 1/3 of actual rules written in huge bold text. This is not looking good.

 

I think from very early on, they told us detachment= 1 detachment rule, 4 enhancements, 6 strats and that's it.

 

They certainly did say loudly and often that the rules would fit on a two-page spread, but I don't ever remember them implying that those pages would be dripping with rules content, and it certainly didn't surprise me to see what we got. I felt it was almost exactly as advertised al along.

 

Knowing that marines and Nids will be the first to get their dexes (and their new models, and their Crusade campaign content), I'm far more worried about everyone else than I am about them. Whatever I think is wrong with them now won't matter 3 months after game day. Some of the other armies are stuck with Indexes for two years.

 

And in terms of marines at least, it's worth remembering that while a detachment only includes 1 detachment rule, 4 enhancements and 6 strats, if you can resist the urge to bring bespoke units, you have 6 different detachments to choose from; because you don't get to mix and match between detachments, the total number of combinations is far more limited, even though the number of options available remain roughly the same.

 

If we assume every dex comes with six detachments, and that one of those six will be a reprint of the index detachment, then each army is going to end up with 6 detachment rules, 12 WL Traits, 12 Relics (ie. 24 enhancements) and 36 Srats. And funny thing... That's almost exactly what 9th ed dexes have. The only difference is that you can't combine any strat with any wl trait and any relic. Just as many options, but far fewer combinations.

 

As for the loss of Loadout options: I'm with you on this. For me personally, the army rule + detachment rule + enhancement + unit rule + strat formula is as satisfying as a detailed set of Loadout options, but I also liked having the option of buying multiple kits in order to build the perfect "My Dudes" loadout. The ideal for me was when I had it all- layered rules + better loadout... AKA, 9th.  While some folks might be looking back fondly now, it's hard to deny the zeitgeist began to see the presence of so many options as bloat... And that DOES include loadout. People are universally upset about combi weapons, but they're slightly more accepting of combined power weapon and bolt profiles.

 

But as much as I did like those loadout options, I have to admit that there were also times when I felt pressured to buy multiple boxes to get the right bits, and it is reassuring to know that I'm far less likely to experience that going forward. And I've heard people say they prefer loadout options to the layered rule options for modelling reasons, and I get that... But I think it's more of a modeling project to make a model look like it is performing the action of a strat or WL trait than it is to give it a different gun. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by ThePenitentOne

[Squark]

I can't speak for pre-5th, but by that point... There was definately a pretty stark divide. Fresh 5th edition Dark Eldar or Blood Angels vs. a 3rd Edition Necron army was an exercise in frustration. My only win with that codex was vs. Mono-Tzeentch Demons.

 

Then of course the tables turned in 6th if you could kitbash some Night/Doom Scythes (Being a high school student, I was not so fortunate) before flyers proliferated. And of course we have the absolute misery that was space marines vs. The Heldrake.

 

Taudar, or even just wraithknight or riptide spam on their own, were absolute menaces. I vividly recall flipping the bird at an eldar codex on one occasion (with a good natured smile on my face and only after shaking my opponent's hand. He laughed and sympathized).

 

Imperial knights just left a lot of old army builds with 0 counterplay in their original incarnation.

 

I can't speak for fourth or earlier because my only games were Thanksgiving marches at my cousins where I barely understood the rules.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Squark

[sitnam]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Self-replicating spore bomb! Amazing!

 

Now I've managed to somewhat restore my composure (apologies, I'd been having a rough day and also as of 2 hours and 45 minutes ago I'm 27) there is a lot I actually like about these rules- I just REALLY hope they add biomorphs and the like back in for the Codex. The sledgehammer-level homogenization of units really rubs me the wrong way. On the plus side, the rules being free means I don't have to fork out any money to see if the game is worth playing or not.

Just be happy your still in your 20's, I'm hitting 33 in just under 2 days. Ugh

I feel the same about these rules as I do Kill Team 2018 vs 2021. I dislike the loss of customization, but the game actually looks easier for me to dive into. At least Nids have a wide pool of data sheets to build from and customize your army list, if not the individual units.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lolz, youth. 

Some of us were playing Second Edition as fully fledged Adults.

I have rose tinted glasses of RT, that was just chaotic narrative awesome. And Nids didn't even exist in the Galaxy.

 

After that it's just the needle swinging from flavour to bloat and sometimes stabbing at both. 

I certainly appreciate not needing a PhD in 40k to play 10th, 9th was far too much work.

 

These Nid rules look pretty good, my boy (15) is looking forward to "wasting" me with them.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[MaximusTL]

One unit in here i think people are sleeping on is the Haruspex. its defensive profile is solid, if not exemplary but it's damage . . . by the throne, that damage. first it has the s6 AP-2 dD6+1 precision character killer to get rid of that pesky commisar/farseer or chunk that chaplain. Then its main course: 14 s7 ap-1 d2 attacks PLUS 4 s14 AP-2 dD6+1 extra attacks. this thing should tear apart almost anything you put in front of it. Which is nice, as whenever it kills something, nearby units are forced to take battleshock tests. throwing this thing into the middle of a guard line should be hilarious.

[MaximusTL]

Also, the Nuerotyrant should be able to join Zoanthropes. Brain bug posse.

[mel_danes]

3 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Lolz, youth. 

Some of us were playing Second Edition as fully fledged Adults.

I have rose tinted glasses of RT, that was just chaotic narrative awesome.

Right? My son is 30 this year.

I played RT in highschool, bought second edition new in box from the local game store.

I've still got metal Chaos Marines with mushrooms for legs welding plasma cannons.

They don't see play mind you 

 

Nostalgia Glasses are definitely a thing.

However the Gray Beards remember the cycle of rules.

The moment I read AP as it is now was coming back, I knew power armor was garbage. I remember Shuriken rifles mulching Marines back in the day.

[Zoatibix]

4 hours ago, MaximusTL said:

One unit in here i think people are sleeping on is the Haruspex. its defensive profile is solid, if not exemplary but it's damage . . . by the throne, that damage. first it has the s6 AP-2 dD6+1 precision character killer to get rid of that pesky commisar/farseer or chunk that chaplain. Then its main course: 14 s7 ap-1 d2 attacks PLUS 4 s14 AP-2 dD6+1 extra attacks. this thing should tear apart almost anything you put in front of it. Which is nice, as whenever it kills something, nearby units are forced to take battleshock tests. throwing this thing into the middle of a guard line should be hilarious.

 

Hope nobody accidentally leaves a Neurothrope nearby… Doctor Evil.jpg 

 

Nids were in the RT book, or have I misunderstood?

Edited June 9, 2023 by Zoatibix

[Doobles57]

4 hours ago, MaximusTL said:

One unit in here i think people are sleeping on is the Haruspex. its defensive profile is solid, if not exemplary but it's damage . . . by the throne, that damage. first it has the s6 AP-2 dD6+1 precision character killer to get rid of that pesky commisar/farseer or chunk that chaplain. Then its main course: 14 s7 ap-1 d2 attacks PLUS 4 s14 AP-2 dD6+1 extra attacks. this thing should tear apart almost anything you put in front of it. Which is nice, as whenever it kills something, nearby units are forced to take battleshock tests. throwing this thing into the middle of a guard line should be hilarious.

Yeah I'm really liking the Haruspex rules. Plus the model is absurd in a good way.

The more I've looked at the Leviathan models, the more I think I'm keeping them as a new army (that I really don't need, but whatever). The Haruspex and some Tyrant Guard for the the Neurotyrant may be first on my list when it comes to expanding.

[acrozatarim]

I still sorta wish they'd retained some of the weirder varied shapes of nid stuff from when things like the haruspex were first introduced in Hive War, back when they were more slug like, rather than everything having to conform to a standard aesthetic that ends up looking slightly derpy on some models. It's been nice to see some new visuals with stuff like the psychophage or the neurotyrant looking more like something deep-sea.

[ZeroWolf]

4 hours ago, MaximusTL said:

Also, the Nuerotyrant should be able to join Zoanthropes. Brain bug posse.

And this is exactly what I'm planning on doing  

[Akerkoke]

Young folks maybe don't remember the 3rd edition Ulthwè farseer council giving rerolls on everything when you basically rerolled only with twin linked weapons and only to hit.
Or falcons with holoshields that were way more tanky than a land raider, or Tyranids with a bunch of shooty carnifexes that were pretty much unstoppable.

The cheese has always been present, and unfortunately too much customizations often do more harm than good. Personally I'm returning to the game (9th edition was too complicated for my tastes) and simplification was much needed.

This said, it is inevitable that every shaking in the game will leave some enthusiast/hopeful, and some other disappointed, I guess it is the way of things

[Plague _Lord]

Raveners are looking spicy with a boatload of attacks! 

[Large and Moving Torb]

Ok, so I've watched a couple battle reports now with the box set contents and in at least one I'm seeing use of Synapse in a way that is different from what I was expecting. That is the suggestion that every Tyranid model is a Synapse model; I assume they are saying this as the Faction ability lists Synapse. But to be a Synapse model doesn't the unit datasheet have to have the Synapse keyword? Otherwise, for example, Hormagaunts would be Synapse models. Surely not?