Wh40k 10th Edition Adeptus Mechanicus Index

[Quantum]

21 hours ago, brother_b said:

I’d think twice about attaching a character to vanguard or rangers. Those units are extremely fragile and you can only take up to 10 models.

 

Fair point. Nevertheless from its ruleset the Technoarcheologist should have the most effect at the frontline; reducing the enemies control over Objectives and creating a larger no-deepstrike zone around him. Is that a place where one would want Kataphrons to be located, drawing fire from all sides towards your heavy guns that should keep firing as long as possible?

21 hours ago, brother_b said:

Kataphron are a natural choice. Maybe priests if you have them.

 

Good idea. I think a manipulus with sonic weapon has good synergy with Corpuscari Electro-Priest.

21 hours ago, brother_b said:

If you really feel like attaching a character to your skitarii I’d lean towards a back line unit of rangers and go with the marshal or techno archaeologist for screening.

The Marshall's to hit bonus for his bodyguard seems good for Ranger, I do agree. A manipulus with his long-range weapon may also be a good fit. 

 

But perhaps I am asking the wrong question. Perhaps the better question is:  Is using characters to boost units worth the points, or should one focus on adding more units instead?

 

Also, forgive my ignorance but what effect does the Rad bombardment (in the first round) really have? I mean, why should the opponent not choose going to ground? Sure, his units are battle shocked for the entire round, but he can still move and shoot to full effect, and in the first round he cannot claim Objectives anyway and he probably wants to save his Command Points for a time when he is not busy getting his units into position.

 

And of all the enhancements why would I not choose the Omni-steriliser? My magos with Volkite blaster and Phosphor serpenta would suddenly double in firepower (not to mention the shots become more deadly too). Quite a boost. Seems much stronger than Master annihilator and Excoriating Emnination. And Archived Purge Protocols seems to useful only in specific circumstances where one unit advances & shoots while others shoot while stationary.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Quantum

[Nagashsnee]

2 hours ago, Quantum said:

 

The Marshall's to hit bonus for his bodyguard seems good for Ranger, I do agree. A manipulus with his long-range weapon may also be a good fit. 

 

But perhaps I am asking the wrong question. Perhaps the better question is:  Is using characters to boost units worth the points, or should one focus on adding more units instead?

 

Also, forgive my ignorance but what effect does the Rad bombardment (in the first round) really have? I mean, why should the opponent not choose going to ground? Sure, his units are battle shocked for the entire round, but he can still move and shoot to full effect, and in the first round he cannot claim Objectives anyway and he probably wants to save his Command Points for a time when he is not busy getting his units into position.

 

And of all the enhancements why would I not choose the Omni-steriliser? My magos with Volkite blaster and Phosphor serpenta would suddenly double in firepower (not to mention the shots become more deadly too). Quite a boost. Seems much stronger than Master annihilator and Excoriating Emnination. And Archived Purge Protocols seems to useful only in specific circumstances where one unit advances & shoots while others shoot while stationary.

 

 

Some excellent questions so lets.

1) The issue with the marshall is two threefold, 1 vanguard are not a great choice for him as they will move up and likely die pretty quickly, adding a  marshal will only get them killed faster. 2 Rangers are not only overcosted, but their scout move and sticky obj rule directly conflict with their range 30 gun, they want to stay back but then you are paying 125 points to not use most of their abilities, or you advance in which case you now have worse and more expensive vanguard. 3 Neither unit will likely do much damage, sure they will do more with a marshal but more of little is not allot.

 

2) This is the right way of thinking, characters buff units but decided who to buff and its total worth vs the characters points is the balance.  To go back to the marshall if he could join sicarans  or apply the re roll to hit to skitarii within 6 or even just chicken knights he would be a fantastic character. Instead he makes a bad unit slightly better.  Sure its better but its 45 that could be spent way way better. 

 

3) Best case you opponent quickly tells you if he has 1-2 key units that might need to use a stratagem turn 1 and they take some wounds...maybe. Worse case your opponent doesnt understand that there is no 'trick' and spends 5-10 mins trying to figure out how just saying 'my whole army is battleshocked is simply not a issue in the slightest. So unless there is a secondary that rewards you to battleshock enemies  we are just going to have to accept having if not the worse then a strong contented to the title of worse detachment rule. 

 

4) Now this is a pickle, Breachers are great, and you are going to want to pick a magos in them, now with the right relic they can give the unit stealth, and in a 6 strong breacher unit stealth can end up being HUGE and much better then any dmg the character might put out with the relic.  The issue then becomes do i want a second hq? Which takes us straight back to 2.  

[brother_b]

Nagashee has great answers.

 

If you could have a 20 model size unit of rangers I’d probably be more likely to include a marshal. As it is I believe he won’t see much table time at all. 

 

Attaching a character to an inherently weak unit in this edition looks to be a no go and is a major stumbling block in the character rules of this edition in my opinion.

 

I’m going to keep the sterilizor on my manípulus. I just need more breachers now. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by brother_b

[Madao]

4 hours ago, brother_b said:

I’m going to keep the sterilizor on my manípulus. I just need more breachers now. 

I wouldn't overinvest in breachers, as they will get a solid nerf soon™ as the most powerful unit in thr codex

[Ulfast]

I agree, I recommend that no one buy three units of 6 right away but at least one unit of 6 is good to have, perhaps even two units.

[Focslain]

I already have 9, but the only real change I can see with my force is adding the blaster to the robots as losing a shooting attack for twin-linked in melee isn't worth it in my eyes. Will make the second set I was converting easier to make now.

[Ulfast]

I have been thinking if one hiding gem is dragoons? I think they got better and could be a surprise for some people when they close up and get into close combat. Specially against knights and dreadnoughts. Even if they are not a super unit i think we can get some damage from them and tie up opponents. What do you think? 

[Madao]

I hope that they will FAQ the datasmith to not make bots vulnerable to anti-infantry weapons, as then he could take the stealth enchancement and greatly increase their defence

Edited June 23, 2023 by Madao

[Ulfast]

I have been following several youtubes battlereports (sadly have had no time to play myself) and it seems in most cases ad mech loses but thye still put up a good fight. That to me shows that with just some more playtime and adjusting to the new index we will soon see more battles with wins. I of course hope that GW will do a FAQ soon where some changes are done (like lowers points on some units, perhaps change BS etc) but I still see some potential in the army. 

 

One problem is that as our is very expensive to play with (perhaps our army and GSC är one of the most expesinve armies to start for new people) with the reputation that we are garbage right now we will see fewer people play them and that will of course see people get less experince with the army and that will make more losses. A bad cycle but I think and hope that some good players will turn this around and show that we still can fight back. And that GW see that we need some changes. Lucky for us, one of the first codixes will be our. If thats good or bad we don´t know but I hope it will be good as changes are coming. 

 

But what do you think, I´m wrong trying to spin a more positive view on the index so far? I know it lacks, specially compared to space marines, eldar etc.  

[Nagashsnee]

1 hour ago, Ulfast said:

 

But what do you think, I´m wrong trying to spin a more positive view on the index so far? I know it lacks, specially compared to space marines, eldar etc.  

It depends what kind of games we are talking about.

Between win at all costs and shot hammer lay many lands. Personally i play to win but will put the fun of both players before that, so i tailor the power (well what i believe it is)  of my list based on the type of game and opponent i am going to playing.   

 

One of my big issues with people saying this is good or bad online is they rarely clarify their type of use. 40k10th is perfectly fine for beer and pretzel game. All indexes will be more or less the same, because most of the over powered stuff comes from combos that require dedicated list building.  It also needs people who will always take the best weapons/options. 

 

Adeptus Mechanicus play just fine in 'normal' friday night games. They play ok in more competitive games against many other indexes, where they stand no chance is against the top dogs in a competitive game.  Eldar, Marines ( had a game yesterday) and other 'better' indexes simply out perform us. So unless one player is clearly superior the dice gods must save you. 

 

When i doom and gloom its not because i will never win a game, its because there is no point in me going to a tournament, and i enjoy going to tournaments with my mates. 

[Ulfast]

Nagashsnee; I think you are totally right. In a hard tournament our army at the moment will have big problems to score wins. And if that what you like then the index will not be so much fun. It´s always hard to have to fight in a uphill battle, even before the game start! Your points are also right that most people are not tournament players and for those people the index will work pretty good. I think that view need to go out more as I´m afraid lot of people will be scared away from as mech at the moment as many of the top youtuber out there is saying we are weak, and hardly anyone one wants to play and collect an expensive weak army (except me, must be something wrong with me, lol). 

 

What is strange is that I thought in the end of 9ed that most armies where in balance, so why change everything and make the game more unbalanced? Seems bad for sales or am I missing something?

[Madao]

Goonhammer described my feelings about the index quite accurately https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-unhinged-an-adeptus-mechanicus-rant/ (beware of salt)

[Ulfast]

Yes, I read that articel. It´s actually one of the better articles written on Goonhammer. I really hope someone from GW reads it and takes notes. Because it highlight very good several of our problems and at the same times give some intersting solutions. Will be intersting if GW will do a update on there 10ed soon or if we have to wait longer?

[brother_b]

I feel underwhelmed so far.

Some of the decisions are horrible; locking unit sizes, removing meaningful point values, making some weapon choices obsolete (specifically looking at my GSC autopistol acolytes hand flamers are free and always better, the entire option in the kit is obsolete).

 

But most of all is all the weird rules problems like for us specifically giving robots the infantry keyword. What a joke! It feels rushed like they changed the focus of 10th midway through development to make it simpler to play.

 

And so far heroes locked to units has been meh. Going to have a proper full game next week so I’ll report on that as soon as I can. Our smaller learning games have been just ok, the flavor of the army seems stale and boring compared to our past forgeworld choices.

[Ulfast]

Only good thing is that as you said, several of the problems right now is affecting all armies, not only ad mech. Hopefull GW will adress those issues soon and  make some changes specific to our army too. Lot of the top armies as eldar and space marines can get around it but us smaller armies (ad mech, Votann, GSC) we don´t have that many option so if a couple of our rules and datasheets are wrong, it affect us much more then space marines that got over 200 units to chose from!

[Quantum]

From the comments it is clear I picked one heck of a time to finally start playing games with my AdMech... 

 

 

[Ulfast]

Actually, even if it looks bleak for us at the moment I don´t feel like it´s a bad time to start collection. We will be on of the factions that get a codex first and that will propably help us in competing. So starting now is a good time. Then you will be ready when the codex drop. Also, you should never chase the meta. That cost way to much (at least for me). Better to find the minature you like, paint them and collect them. in the end that will make you a winner. And several people have said the in a "normal" gaming group Ad mech works fine. Only in more hard mode, as tournament will it get thougher for us. A good ad mech player will still win over a bad knight or eldar player.

[brother_b]

The problem is for admech to work fine it looks like we have to use skew lists with big units of breachers and a likely soon-to-be-nerfed sterilyzor mortal wound build.

 

My favorite units, rangers and vanguard, have been neutered and are over costed and ineffective. My robots are hamstrung with poor rules design.

 

I’ve only played low point test games and I’ll remain optimistic about my upcoming real match because I want to enjoy 10th but it’s been meh.

[Ulfast]

I think some of our units, specially our battlelinde troops will change. They are right now to expensive, they should drop around 20% in points because right now they don´t do much and can´t hit an barn even if they tried. But its not to uncommon that most indexes will get one or two supreme builds but in most casual games, I think its possibly to change and play diffrent. I think only skustalkers are wortless. Most other units can fill some roles. Even if we of course compared to other armies have a lot of worse datacards. 

[Magos Takatus]

There's enough things about 10th edition itself that have dampened my enjoyment of the game that a frankly tragic outcome for Admech is just the final straw for me. I am coincidentally working on Aeldari at the moment and they are in fairly good shape and I just finished painting one of my Fire Prisms so I should be riding high but 10th edition has really taken the wind out of my sails.

 

I don't think the release of the Adeptus Mechanicus codex being imminent is a cause for optimism because I don't think there is enough time for a course correction.

 

I'm sorry for the negative outlook currently but hopefully people will be able to get some fun out of playing Admech without having to resort to skew lists. :) 

[Dr. Clock]

Boosh - first game of 10th done with AdMech. It is... not great.

 

I did win, but only because allied in a Knight Errant who killed a landraider and 5 terminators turn 1, and 5 more terminators by turn 3 and then just camped out with 10 OC while opponent gave up on challenging it. Just barely won on tactical missions and end of game scoring for going second.

 

Otherwise, I had 50 skitarrii and 46 died at a cost of 3 Possessed, 5 noise marines and a couple wounds off the a daemon prince. Even just not moving all game in Protector they hit like a wet noodle. 185 points of rangers with support character can't kill more than... 1 possessed in a full round of shooting? : (

 

2 Balistarii... did 5 wounds to the daemon prince total. Without 2 shots, they just feel bad.

 

10 Stalkers and 5 Infiltrators briefly annoyed noise marines and Daemon Prince. Got a couple points but dead turn 2.

 

Robots can do some work, but maybe a little over points. WIthout them capitalizing on the hole the Knight knocked in the middle and then running back to opponent DZ, I probably lose.

 

Icarus dunecrawler was... fine, I guess.

 

Sulphurhounds were good action monkeys but completely useless in terms of damage. Running 3 up to 2 marines and doing... no damage? Feels bad.

 

Definitely think allowing 20-bricks of skitarii is needed to get any mileage out of support characters, and honestly if you just put everything back to BS3+, the list would probabl work as intended. Took Dominus, Manipulus and Marshal, and they're just not worth it on 10 BS4+ duders with no AP. Ho hum... Looks like I'll revisit them in 6-8 months when the codex arrives, or when I can convince someone to let me take cohorts of 20.

 

I was cautiously optimistic that they might not be as bad we thought but the basic Skitarii may as well not exist right now, and that's sadface from my list.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Ulfast]

Yes, the loss of 1 on BS and WS really hurts. As you say, basic skitarii are just now to boost other units. They cant do much by themself. But I do still think we have some units that are good and can win us games. Robots, dragoons, breachers etc.

[Dr. Clock]

6 hours ago, Ulfast said:

Robots

Yes - gotta figure out a 4th robot; I bought Heresy Vorax robots due to their look being sooooooo much better IMO, but now I'm short 1 for a second pair. Honestly even with the weird 'they become infantry' interaction I think the Datasmith is interesting: anti-infantry keyword isn't so prevalent that the FnP doesn't make up for it in most cases? Like sure - shoot your splinter weapons or combi-weapons at them... splinter or similr will still mostly bounce on 2+, and you take a few more mortals from sternguard equiv or whatever, but I'll probably squeeze one in next game (with the aforementioned second robo skwad).

 

Breachers do look good. Don't have any though, and not planning on them until we see what minis/units the Codex brings. My Votann list went from 2000 to 1500, so next few purchases will be filling that gap with tiny termies and thunderers. Have other armies with much better rules and I haven't even tried them all yet, so the index period is still hekkin good fun.  

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Nagashsnee]

You realise only the data smith gains fnp, not the robots yeah? Never ever put a datasmith untill they fix the infantry thing.  Many many units that could do NOTHING to your castellans will suddenly gain the ability to hurt them, and your buff is tied too ld test with a mediocre ld model. 

 

Honestly if you must buff the bots buy cawl put him between the 2 units and run the brick. Stealth or re rolls 1s will help ahd cawl might be slighty overcosted be at least he doesnt make your units worse.

[brother_b]

That’s a tough take but probably a good one. Are robots also classified as walkers? Are they walkers, vehicles, and infantry with the attached datasmith?

 

The character rules are extremely wonky. A quick fix would be only the base keyword for the model counts, so the robots would gain infantry but not be affected by the anti-rule.

 

Actually, why do they even have that rule? What part of rule interactions make it so we must attach the leaders or the characters status/keyword to the unit?

 

Our games have been interesting, still fun in the essence that we get to roll dice have a beer and play with toy soldiers. Just a very different feel from the last two additions not sure my true take yet.