Wh40k 10th Edition Imperial Knights Index

[sairence]

I do think the 3 big/4+ small is going to be really potent, because you absolutely want those bondsman abilities, and you need your squires to activate them. 

[Cleon]

I think it's also going to be key to be able to pressure your opponent with threats to stop them from targeting your Armigers or Questoris first, if you can be whittled down in Armiger/Questoris paris what remains will be more powerful.

 

Personally (points allowing) I'm looking at a Mythic Hero crusader with a pair of Helverins and then maybe two 'gun and melee' Knights (possibly an Errant and a Paladin) with a Warglave each. Alternativly maybe a Crusader with a Helverin instead if the Warglaves don't prove effective.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Cleon

[Karhedron]

I really want to try a Warden with Mythic Hero and a pair of Warglaives stomping up to control the midfield. That is a whole lot of wounds with the -1 Damage ability (and currently assumed immunity to small arms fire). The Warden will absolutely shred infantry while the Warglaives provide some respectable anti-tank capability and all 3 are decently strong in melee.

[Karhedron]

A Valiant with Mysterious Guardian also looks potentially very strong as an easy way to get those powerful but short-ranged guns up close to some tasty targets. With a pair of Shieldbreaker Missile Launchers, it is no slouch in the ranged anti-tank department either.

[Noserenda]

Looks like they ditched the little rearming platform fortification? Cool concept they never did good rules for.

[librisrouge]

Is anybody else worried about how much sniper rifles and other anti-character weapons are going to tear quest or is knights apart?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

48 minutes ago, librisrouge said:

Is anybody else worried about how much sniper rifles and other anti-character weapons are going to tear quest or is knights apart?

Don't most sniper rifles have relatively low str? Which ones you thinking?

[Lord_Ikka]

2 hours ago, librisrouge said:

Is anybody else worried about how much sniper rifles and other anti-character weapons are going to tear quest or is knights apart?

Not really- most snipers (Vindicare, Scouts, Eliminators, Deathmarks, Rangers, etc...) don't have Anti-Character X+ as a keyword, they have Precision. Precision just means you can pick out characters that are attached to squads, where Anti-Character X+ will wound characters on X+. Anti-Character might put some more wounds onto Questoris/Dominus, as the attacks will more easily wound them, but I haven't seen a lot of Anti-Character ranged weapons that will put out a lot of damage. Eldrad has one that is d6 damage, but its only one shot at 18" that doesn't do mortals. That's the only one I can think of off-hand that has the potential for more than 3 damage.

[Mandragola]

Now that points are up, some reflections:

• Knights are cheaper than you expected.
• Upgrades are free so I hope you still have your missile pods.
• Canis Rex.
• *Horn blowing sounds*

[prava]

I also checked the spanish rules for Knights and there is no doubt there: you re-roll ALL hits and wounds of 1. All of them. IK looking very solid at the moment. Some Knights have gone down like 150 points. So much so that we can have 5 big knights with enhancements and might even hace space for a Vindicare...

 

Anybody that knows other languages can check the index in their respective language?

[Fenriwolf]

Seriously hope no one has built their knight in a way that makes using/swapping carapace weapons impossible 

 

Goes without saying that getting them (and meltas on the armigers)  for free means a huge improvement in output for point, so yeah, probably questoris shooting this time will feel adequate

Edited June 16, 2023 by Fenriwolf

[Mandragola]

35 minutes ago, prava said:

I also checked the spanish rules for Knights and there is no doubt there: you re-roll ALL hits and wounds of 1. All of them. IK looking very solid at the moment. Some Knights have gone down like 150 points. So much so that we can have 5 big knights with enhancements and might even hace space for a Vindicare...

 

Anybody that knows other languages can check the index in their respective language?

That's interesting. They've previously tended to rule that the English version was the correct one, but honestly who knows? I still think that version means one reroll per activation, but I definitely don't know that's what they meant when they wrote it. I don't know why they didn't just say "reroll all hit and wound rolls of a 1" if that's what they wanted it to mean.

 

On the general power level of the Index, this pushes it way, way up there. Canis Rex or a Crusader basically only bother to roll to hit to see if they get exploding dice.

 

Edit: And the FW rules haven't dropped yet.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Mandragola

[Mandragola]

Here's the IA stuff: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/YeS47MWmFkWqKoLP.pdf

 

Lancers get to advance and charge, and also do a free tank shock (for up to 3 with Canis Rex). Porphyrions might be decent and it'll be great for people who own these to get to field them. Other stuff seems fairly good but not game-changing. Atrapos is very interesting at 385, with two guns and reasonable melee ability. It has a 5++ in melee too.

[Karhedron]

The Lancer looks like it might even edge out the Gallant as the better melee variant. Advance + Charge, free Tank Shock and a 4++ that includes melee. That is quite an improvement for only 30 points.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Not to mention that the Gallant feels a bit off in an edition where having two melee weapons just gets you extra dice on one. I'd rather use my questoris hulls for other variants.

[sairence]

I like the Moiraxes getting free Heroic. If I understand it right, if you have multiple ones they can all use it?

 

Could add a nice bit of out of turn threat to have up front.

[Focslain]

1 hour ago, sairence said:

I like the Moiraxes getting free Heroic. If I understand it right, if you have multiple ones they can all use it?

 

Could add a nice bit of out of turn threat to have up front.

correct, much like the Lancer's free tank shock. I'm just happy these are battleline. Granted I know I already have more then I can field in a single game, but I have that issue with all the armigars.

[Lord_Ikka]

Ah, the Atropos is finally decent enough to bring to the field of battle! Even better, it and its Bondsman Armiger will do quite well in a mirror-match or against Chaos Knights. Looking forward to that!

[RenegadeKorps]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:48 PM, Lord_Ikka said:

Ah, the Atropos is finally decent enough to bring to the field of battle! Even better, it and its Bondsman Armiger will do quite well in a mirror-match or against Chaos Knights. Looking forward to that!

Only models with the Questoris keyword share Bondsman abilities with Armigers, sorry.

Edited June 28, 2023 by RenegadeKorps

[Lord_Ikka]

4 hours ago, RenegadeKorps said:

Only models with the Questoris keyword share Bondsman abilities with Armigers, sorry.

Incorrect, the rule just mentions that some Questoris models have a Bondsman ability. Later, when the model using the Bondsman ability is mentioned, it is not keyworded Questoris.

 

"Some Questoris models have a Bondsman ability,  tagged with the word ‘Bondsman’. In your Command  phase, one or more models from your army with a Bondsman ability can use that ability. For each one  that does, select one friendly Armiger model within  12" of that model (you cannot select an Armiger model that is already being affected by a Bondsman  ability). Until the start of your next Command phase,  both of those models (i.e. the model that just used its  Bondsman ability and the Armiger model you just  selected) are affected by that Bondsman ability."

 

Any model with a Bondsman ability can this benefit from it- if they use it on an Armiger. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Helycon]

9 hours ago, RenegadeKorps said:

Only models with the Questoris keyword share Bondsman abilities with Armigers, sorry.

I realise Lord_Ikka already responded, but why would they give the ability to the Cerastus Knights when they couldn't use it?

 

It requires an Armiger in range to be usable, as it cannot be triggered on it's own. 

[RenegadeKorps]

It’s true that the second sentence does not refer to the first. I thought only Questoris could share their ability while the others could use it without sharing it, but not even that is written. 
 

In any case, the wording is weird. All models with the Questoris keyword, not ‘‘some’’, have a bondsman ability. I guess they meant simply an ‘‘Imperial Knight’’. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by RenegadeKorps

[Lord_Ikka]

5 minutes ago, RenegadeKorps said:

It’s true that the second sentence does not refer to the first. I thought only Questoris could share their ability while the others could use it without sharing it, but not even that is written. 
 

In any case, the wording is weird. All models with the Questoris keyword, not ‘‘some’’, have a bondsman ability. I guess they meant simply an ‘‘Imperial Knight’’. 

My guess would be that they initially had a Questoris or two (probably the FW and/or Gallant) not have Bondsman abilities and just never changed the wording when they went back and gave those units the Bondsman ability. 

[chapter master 454]

Had a game today against some marines, ran a castellan, warden, preceptor, paladin and 2 warglaives. Unyielding Paragon on Warden.

 

So, the -1 damage for the Warden was a MASSIVE back-breaker for a thunder hammer unit and various other weapons the marines had. While it did get lucky with a land raider completely whiffing T2 lascannon shots on me, it managed to survive a deluge of melee attacks with thunder hammers, something like 30+ hits and near enough half of them wounding (oath of moments is killer against knights as suspected). Reducing the damage to 1 and not taking 2 damage over and over held the line. Sadly I cannot speak much of the FNP, because while I did get it triggered on my turn 2 (I was going second), I didn't roll that well for it so despite having a 5+++ I was struggling to shrug wounds. It did help, but I feel data on that for that game isn't conclusive.

 

A big thing to keep in mind: Fixed objectives against knights can have Bring it Down and Assassination just RUN with Secondary objective points.

 

An aspect I think I need to look into is the fact that while Big Guns never Tire, they do have issues shooting Blast at point blank. This new rule is a great addition and makes tying down knights MUCH harder and more so the fact you can't hide ether in the same way. However bear in mind which of your weapons are blast. Having a good assortment of Non-blast guns that hit fairly hard should be kept around to help clear chaff quicker if needed or just so you can hose an enemy unit down fast. I suspect the Valiant will become the new go-to Dominus. Can't speak much of the paladin, got deleted by...-drum roll- a turn 1 land raider assault ramp charge party! The Preceptor did alright, nothing stellar but the Las-Impulsor did feel decent. Warden however again was a major winner, the -1 damage bondsman was massive and having the AP reduction from the enchancment was a critical winner in making my knight able to hold the centre point of a massive melee and even take some shooting.

 

Also the new Objective Control stat was really good too, allowing an armiger to take an objective from a unit that was hiding from me in a ruin I couldn't see.

To note and a fair rule we agreed on using that was the clubs view on balancing it: Ground floors are always considered blacked out, regardless of their actual model. So you can still see over but not with the bottom floor. Was annoying but all things considered, the unit inside wasn't able to really do much as their OC of 5 was knocked out by my OC of 8.

 

Armigers themselves I feel need more run-time to test, though the new thermal spear is certainly beastly. Much improved!

[Karhedron]

Unyielding Paragon is really good. Personally I prefer to run it on a Dominus as it stacks really well with the 2+ save. For the Warden, I am currently leaning towards Mythic Hero. This allows him to share the -1 Damage ability with a second Armiger. A Warden and 2 Warglaives is a really potent package when all 3 have -1 Damage. They can shred infantry and vehicles alike in both shooting and melee and the lack of Blast weapons (as you point out above) means they really don't care if they are in melee or not.

 

I really like my Castellan but I can see what you mean about the Valiant being really good now. I haven't tried it yet but I like the idea of a Valiant with Mysterious Guardian. Vanish at the end of your opponent's turn and then Deep Strike in range of all those deadly but short-ranged guns.