Guard Index

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

well, i've so far only looked at units i have for the most part, but in general doesn't look too bad.

i'm happy to see the exterminator got a glow up, and now there might be a reason for people to take it over the punisher. the exterminator becoming a buffing unit is kind of a cool way to set it apart from other russes.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

taurox prime is still locked to scions with the exception of normal guard officers if i'm reading that correctly?

[Emperor Ming]

35 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

well, i've so far only looked at units i have for the most part, but in general doesn't look too bad.

Overall this is my assessment to

 

There is a few minor things I'm very very unhappy about, mainly tanks loosing turret rule and order splash, but this could be balanced out with points reductions maybe

 

Certain things like the manticore and basilisk could have done with a S bump. 

 

Amusing that ogryns have gained more rules to try and make them viable

 

All Infantry might be back with lascannons now being good

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

so the way character or leader units joining other units works, is both units benefit from the others' keywords right?

so could we theoretically put a command squad or castellan with a squad of CSTs and take them in a t prime?

[Emperor Ming]

Maybe, the faq is prob gonna be longer than the core rules

[sairence]

I quite like it. There's a lot of synergies and ways units can buff and each other, which is great for interesting list building. Artillery is great, tanks are good for the most part, we can take normal units with up to 30 models with boatloads of buffs attached, which is kinda funky (not sure if that's a good use, but it looks hella fun). But mostly I like the synergies.

 

Also, Hellhounds have a 2+ save and Exterminators are actually useful. What a time to be alive.

[Tokugawa]

Armoured sentinels 2+. Reviving 3 sentinels via one stratagem is crazy.

 

"Markerlight" ability of exterminator is very good. Tank commanders would still prefer demolisher for better raw power since picking turret doesn't bring the corresponding special ability.

 

Artilleries are back to menu, need point costs to tell which is better than which.

 

Dorn lost some advantage. In 9th the most popular LR turret was executioner, So Dorn wound Russ on 3+, be wounded on 5+. Now both on 3+. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Maybe, the faq is prob gonna be longer than the core rules

Yeah a faq will be needed.

 

it seems the TC exterminator has different weapon rules from the standard exterminator Russ.

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Dorn lost some advantage.

I was never fused by the dorn to start with, ace model, so so rules

 

Now even more so so

[Colman]

I was hoping that the disembark after moving change would make mechanised infantry fun again, but the only officer you can fit in a chimera with an Infantry Squad is Creed: you can’t attach a platoon command squad to anything and fit it in transport which isn’t a super heavy. <sad sigh> 

[Tokugawa]

You can jam Leontus and a command squad into one infantry unit. Then he can grab the vox and extend his order range to 24 inches. The combined unit would become the no.1 priority target of opponent artillery though.

[Emperor Ming]

3 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

You can jam Leontus and a command squad into one infantry unit. Then he can grab the vox and extend his order range to 24 inches. The combined unit would become the no.1 priority target of opponent artillery though.

Prob Little way to hide such a unit as well, gonna be a massive target

[Sergeant Bastone]

Ogryn ripper guns are A3 RF3 and get AP2 if attacking the nearest enemy unit.  I like it.  

 

For Ogryn bodyguards it seems like the huge knife is just flat better than the maul unless i'm missing something.

 

Bullgryns look bad imo.

 

Armoured Sentinels get to reroll wounds vs vehicles/monsters?!  So it's all lascannons all the time now?  Or maybe autocannons?

 

We're changing all of our Russes to exterminators now right?  A4, RF4, Twin Linked, with that markerlight ability?!?!

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sergeant Bastone

[Emperor Ming]

18 minutes ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

Bullgryns look bad imo.

Points depending, but they look ok, gained T, gained fnp and kept the minus damage. 

 

Priests should of been able to attach to ogryns

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

Points depending, but they look ok, gained T, gained fnp and kept the minus damage. 

 

Priests should of been able to attach to ogryns

We gotta keep in mind this is just an index, and hopefully we’ll have a new codex soon.

 

[Malakithe]

Most tanks are dead with no way to improve BS like I was saying. No tank orders, no splashing orders for infantry, no heavy on guns that should be heavy or are heavy in other places, no turret rule.

 

Long live Artillery and Hellhounds

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Most tanks are dead with no way to improve BS like I was saying. No tank orders, no splashing orders for infantry, no heavy on guns that should be heavy or are heavy in other places, no turret rule.

 

Long live Artillery and Hellhounds

Tanks have less chance to hit on 3+, but also won't hit worse than 5+. 

 

Hellhound has some ok spotter ability, but sentinels and exterminators may do that work better. 2d6 dmg1 attacks just can't reliably kill things bigger than guardsmen.

[Harrowmaster]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

We gotta keep in mind this is just an index, and hopefully we’ll have a new codex soon.

 

We'll be close to the end of 10th for the codex unless GW breaks their pattern 

[Feral_80]

Re: tanks I read a lot of nonsense. They are not bad at all, and they can get to BS 3+ via either Leontus or a Tank Commander. What's not to like?

 

Russes do not all look equally interesting, but several certainly look very good: of course everything depends on points, but Exterminator, Demolisher, Executioner all look more than viable. I'd even consider the Vanquisher: buffed at BS 3+ it gets to shoot at 2+ (it has one of the few Heavy guns), and has in-built reroll to wounds. The basic stratagem can be used to reroll to hit, so even at just 1 shot it has decent chances to actually do something as its cannon hits really hard.

 

There are a few losers (Priests, Ogryns? Not excited by Commissars either, but we'll see the points) and things to tweak. But overall the index looks very solid. 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Feral_80

[mertbl]

Triple tank commander and triple leman russ with leontus. TC order the tanks, leontus orders the TCs. Officers can repeat orders now.

 

A 20 man dkok with pcs, bodyguard, leontus in an aegis defense line should stick around for a very long time. Its expensive but he's gonna be there.  

 

FOB are my big losers for the index. I dont know what I was expecting and I'm still disappointed.  

 

Valkaryie looks really cool. T10 and 2+ armor, they should hang around for awhile. 

 

Lots of buff stacking. You'll need all your tools to win.

 

Codex is only going to bring more detachments and their associated strats and enhancements. I wouldn't hold my breath for unit datasheet revamps. 

[jarms48]

My first impressions:

 

Good: 

- Lord Solar: Guaranteed extra CP, up to 3 unit redeploy, and 3 orders. Very nice. Melee can be quite good as well, though you don't want to charge him into dedicated melee units. 

- Creed: 2 stacking orders on her attached unit is great, can make some deadly combinations with Cadian Shocktroop blobs. Though, I think they need to clarify if the second order is a bonus or if it uses both of her 2 orders. 0CP stratagem can be great too.

- Tank Commander: Take Aim buffing any other Russ to BS3+ and then combined with another source of +1 to Hit making them hit on 2+ is really good. Shooting with full BS on death is nice, I wouldn't rely on it, but it's a good bonus. Weapon doesn't really matter, the weapon rules for Russes seem to be attached to those specific variants. So I'd probably go demolisher cannon or exterminator cannon. Probably the best officer to give Grant Strategist too. 

- Primaris Psyker: Can give 4++ to blob squads and has a good psychic ranged attack. Also a 4+++ against enemy psychic attacks.

- Cadian Shock Troops: Sticky objectives is fantastic. 

- DKOK: D3 returning models and a medic is a great combination. No reason to take voxes anymore so just spam plasma, as the Command Squad master vox doesn't require a vox in the receiving unit. There's also better ways to generate CP. 

- Kasrkins: Still a fantastic choice. Ironically better thanks to the scout move. 

- Enginseer: 4++ on a vehicle is still a great choice, even better now that there seems to be less weapons that ignore invuls. 

- Commissar: Autopassing battle-shock is great. Simple as that.

- Scout Sentinels: Great glow up on durability and utility. Will make artillery shine. 

- Hellhound: Inferno cannon is still pretty good, denying cover afterwards is fantastic. 

- Demolisher: Back to being one of the best tank choices.

- Executioner: Still fantastic. I'd take these over the standard Russ. 

- Exterminator: Actually looks pretty good now. Better strength than the battle cannon, same AP and damage. 8 shots garranteed at 24 inches, and RR to wound. Also has a great buffing ability. 

- Basilisk: Combines great with orders and scout sentinels. Potentially hitting on 2+ even when indirect. Reducing enemy movement could devastate armies that rely on close combat. 

- Manticore: Fantastic now. Like the basilisk, can be made to hit on 2+ even when indirect. New blast rules make it even better at killing bigger units. Can shot all game now.

- Scion Command Squad: Is it just me, or if you take a Tempestor Prime as your warlord you can take Scions as troops and still get all the regular Guard support units now? If that's the case, it's a massive buff. Seems like there's also no difference between regular officers ordering Scions or Tempestor Primes ordering Guardsmen. 

- Scions: Volley gun is rapid fire now, which is awesome. Can easily hit on 2+ with special weapons and have inbuilt RR1. Depending on the above, might be S tier. If they can't be used with regular Guard then B tier. 

 

Situationally Good:

- Cadian Castellan: Senior Officer stacks really well with Born Soldiers. With a 6 to hit giving 1 auto wound and 1 bonus hit. Only issue is Born Soldiers only works on stationary units now, which isn't great when 9th and 10th are about holding central objectives. 

- Platoon Command Squad: Only take them with DKOK or Catachan squads. The Cadian Command Squad seems far better in comparison. 

- Regimental Attaches: Exploding hits from the MoO is nice, +1 to Hit on Aircraft from the OotF is nice, Astropath is sadly worse and I wouldn't consider him.

- Infantry Squad: Stacks well with Command Squads with medics and take cover. 

- Catachans: Better than they were in 9th. Spamming them and using their scout move can set up some early objective grabs. Still suffer from only 1 attack.

- Ogryns: Actually seem to be able to do a lot of damage now, still not incredibly durable but actually could be worth testing out. 

- Bullgryn: Go to seems to be brute shields with the 4++, while +1 wounds sounds nice and does mean they don't die to DD3 weapons being able to simply take no damage from those weapons is still better. 

- Rough Riders: Lost a ton of attacks and damage. Can still be okay at killing MEQ's.

- Armoured Sentinels: Still incredibly durable, lack of utility is the only thing that hurts them.

- Dorn: Durability is great, damage not so much. Really depends on point cost. 3x heavy stubbers putting out 18 shots is kind of funny though. 

- Heavy Weapon Squad: Mortars are still the go to. Will still die to a stiff breeze if left in the open. 

- FOB: Still sad the rocket launcher doesn't get indirect. Got slightly more durable which is nice. Heavy lascannons still look interesting. Bombast still looks like the way to go. Really depends on points though. 

- Chimera: Really depends on point costs but new transport rules seem good. 

- Taurox: Actually looks okay now. Not as much firepower as the Chimera, but that doesn't really matter for a transport. Disembarking after advancing is great. Still depends on point cost.

- Valkyrie: Lost a lot of utility. Like the above 2 is going to really depend on point cost. 

- Baneblades (all of them): The issue is the same, in competitive play on tournament tables their models are simply too big to be viable. In friendly games they're worth considering. Out of all of them I would consider the Banehammer, Banesword, Doomhammer, Stormsword they got massive improvements while the rest were sadly nerfed. 

- Taurox Prime: Missile launcher seems like the best choice now. Support ability is fantastic. Depends on point cost like all other transports. 
 

Bad: 

- Straken: His support buffs have been nerfed since 9th edition, and he's limited to only joining Catachan squads.

- Gaunts Ghosts: Heavily simplified, and as a result massively nerfed.

- Ogryn Bodyguard/Nork: Sadly they seem to lose the ability to tank shots on their toughness. So their durability only factors in once they're outside of the bodyguard unit. Personally if you're planning on sticking Command Squads in blob squads, just take a ripper gun and huge knife. 

- Preacher: Might pair well with Catachans, especially if you have a Command Squad with an Ogryn Bodyguard/Straken/Lord Solar.

- Marbo: Doesn't do enough damage, lost a ton of rules. 

- Harker: Can pair well with a Command Squad with medics or a Primaris Psyker with a 4++. Sadly lost his buffing aura. 

- Servitors: Still don't seem to be worth it.

- Ratlings: Their issue has always been their durability. When bolter fire wounds them on 2+ it's just a waste of points. Their damage does seem a lot better now and they're still useful for zoning out infiltrators. 

- Banewolf/Devildog: Should have been separate profiles like the Russes and Baneblades. 

- Leman Russ: Great ability, battle cannon took a massive hit though.

- Vanquisher: Gone from being fantastic to being too swingy. Lack of ignoring invuls really hurts. 

- Punisher: Potential mortal wounds is interesting, but can't be relied on. 

- Eradicator: Will this thing ever be good? 

- Hydra: Exterminator seems better than it now. 

- Wyvern: Sadly overshadowed by other artillery options. 2D6 is too swingy. Just take mortar HWS. 

- Deathstrike: Gone from decent in 9th to terrible again. Loss of mortals is a massive blow. 

 

This is my face value summary, but really depends on point costs for everything. 

[Sergeant Bastone]

1 hour ago, Feral_80 said:

Re: tanks I read a lot of nonsense. They are not bad at all, and they can get to BS 3+ via either Leontus or a Tank Commander. What's not to like?

 

Russes do not all look equally interesting, but several certainly look very good: of course everything depends on points, but Exterminator, Demolisher, Executioner all look more than viable. I'd even consider the Vanquisher: buffed at BS 3+ it gets to shoot at 2+ (it has one of the few Heavy guns), and has in-built reroll to wounds. The basic stratagem can be used to reroll to hit, so even at just 1 shot it has decent chances to actually do something as its cannon hits really hard.

 

There are a few losers (Priests, Ogryns? Not excited by Commissars either, but we'll see the points) and things to tweak. But overall the index looks very solid. 

 

Ogryns look pretty awesome to me unless I'm missing something.  4 ogryns jumping out of a chimera throwing 24 S5 AP2 D2 shots at something seems pretty fun.

 

Speaking of chimeras, the multilaser is dead yet again right?  I can't see any reason to use it over the sustained hits AP1 D2 heavy bolter.  The multilaser is my favorite space weapon but it manages to get worse every edition. 

 

Every Russ has it's own fun special buff but Tank Commanders don't get them.  Tank commanders don't get BS3 and only get 1 non-splashing order.  Tank commanders might be dead.  I'm happy that the exterminator looks great and to me the vanilla Russ looks good too (rerolls on every weapon not just the cannon right?).  Those two seem like a natural pair too as the exterminator's rule helps with battle cannon's AP1.  The exterminator doing 8 damage3 twin-linked shots within 24" is bonkers.

 

Also: do we have to take all of the regimental attaches? 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sergeant Bastone

[Feral_80]

Well Tank Commanders get BS 3+ with Leontus. Their special buff is hurting the enemy when they die, and the enemy wants them dead because they improve other tanks...seems like a good synergy to me. And a single TC can issue 2 orders via Enhancement (and, with limited use, stratagem).

 

Ogryns, I don't know. May be good depending on cost, buy they look fragile and have poor leadership. I suspect 4+Chimera are not going to be cheap for what they do.

 

Exterminator is good, and nicely buffs a nearby battlecannon's poor AP. Looks like a nice armoured spearhead to dislodge enemy from an objective.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Feral_80

[jarms48]

19 minutes ago, Feral_80 said:

Well Tank Commanders get BS 3+ with Leontus. Their special buff is hurting the enemy when they die, and the enemy wants them dead because they improve other tanks...seems like a good synergy to me. And a single TC can issue 2 orders via Enhancement (and, with limited use, stratagem).

 

This is true, I need to check the army roster creation rules again but I wonder if Leontus and TC Demolisher spam would be viable. Having the redundancy of still shooting after death seems quite nice, even if you go second. 

[Trickstick]

On 6/15/2023 at 12:50 AM, Colman said:

I was hoping that the disembark after moving change would make mechanised infantry fun again, but the only officer you can fit in a chimera with an Infantry Squad is Creed: you can’t attach a platoon command squad to anything and fit it in transport which isn’t a super heavy. <sad sigh> 

 

Castellans can attach to Cadian, normal Infantry Squads, or Kasrkin. Would that work for what you are thinking?