Guard Index

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Exterminator is 2nd most expensive Russ variant…I feel like 200 points is still a bit steep for what it is.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

We are going to be order-starved.  Which I actually like from a fun* POV as it'll hopefully feel like officers on are the scene leading and making tough decisions (as opposed to telling 80 guys to aim extra good every turn).  It seems like players that want to win are going to want Lord Solar for sure.  But i just can't imagine him showing up for a battle with 100 infantrymen and 3 russes.

Think of a game as a section of a larger battle, rather than the whole battle.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Agree. "Bring back a whole sentinel squad with stratagem" feel like a trap. 210pts for 21 T8 2+ wounds is good price on defensive end, but just 3 lascannon(or whatever cannon) shots per turn is too light on offensive end. Opponent could ignore it if knocked down it to the last model. 

 

Plasma hazardous overheat becoming flat 3 wounds is annoying, and S8 plasma is no longer "good against everything" choice. If locked at non-charge mode, is a plasma sponson better than heavy bolter?

The sentinels’ guns aren’t necessarily the threat issue from a scout sentinel is the buffs they give other units.

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m having serious trouble trying to figure out how to build an infantry company with these new rules. If I understand this correctly you can have a maximum of six ‘platoons’ of two squads of ten each led by a platoon command squad? For a total of 25 per platoon? 
 

That can’t be right. 

[Lord_Ikka]

9 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I’m having serious trouble trying to figure out how to build an infantry company with these new rules. If I understand this correctly you can have a maximum of six ‘platoons’ of two squads of ten each led by a platoon command squad? For a total of 25 per platoon? 
 

That can’t be right. 

You can have six of each Battleline infantry squad (Cadian Shock Troops/Catachan Jungle Fighters/Death Korps of Krieg/Infantry Squad), all of which are 10-20 models. You can then have up to 3 Cadian Command Squads, that attach only to Cadian Shock Troops, and also up to 3 Platoon Command Squads, which can attach to any of the others. In addition, there are up to 3 Cadian Castellans (like the old Senior Officers but without a command squad), each of whom can attach to either Infantry squads, Cadian Shock Troops, or Kasrkin. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[Marshal Rohr]

That’s… ridiculous. Have the writers never seen what a platoon looks like?

[Sergeant Bastone]

"Platoons" haven't really been a thing since 5th edition.  I still think of my force as a company broken down into platoons but that's head cannon. 

[SvenIronhand]

 A modern US platoon is ~42-54 soldiers, and in the UK, apparently three squads of eight + signals, the Sergeant, and the platoon commander. Six squads of Battleline and three command squads is well over that.

Edited June 17, 2023 by SvenIronhand

[Emperor Ming]

8 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

 A modern US platoon is ~42-54 soldiers, and in the UK, apparently three squads of eight + signals, the Sergeant, and the platoon commander. Six squads of Battleline and three command squads is well over that.

You cannot apply any modern day military structure to an organisation that has billions of clerks never mind the actual soldiers

[Emperor Ming]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Exterminator is 2nd most expensive Russ variant…I feel like 200 points is still a bit steep for what it is.

All the tanks and sentinels need to come down a bit, assuming were all going to take mm sponsons is a stupid decision

 

 

[SvenIronhand]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

You cannot apply any modern day military structure to an organisation that has billions of clerks never mind the actual soldiers

The Guard has always varied heavily in size and disposition, depending on the book writer or Codex. The number seems to be at about 30-60 men, though.

Edited June 17, 2023 by SvenIronhand

[Malakithe]

Im def not happy about the tank points. I would normally take a barebones LR and stripped back Dorn but now...those tanks, comparing to other factions main battle vehicles, arent worth those points. Maxing basks/manti seems to be the way to go now

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I’m having serious trouble trying to figure out how to build an infantry company with these new rules. If I understand this correctly you can have a maximum of six ‘platoons’ of two squads of ten each led by a platoon command squad? For a total of 25 per platoon? 
 

That can’t be right. 

You really can’t equate rules to lore…like at all.

 

if you want to build an infantry company via your army list create whatever lore organization you want.

 

my regiment each infantry company is just over 100 men.

10 10 man infantry squads and their transports.

a captain and 2 LTs as platoon leaders.

 

i can build that or i can just build whatever I want on tabletop within the rules

[Tokugawa]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Im def not happy about the tank points. I would normally take a barebones LR and stripped back Dorn but now...those tanks, comparing to other factions main battle vehicles, arent worth those points. Maxing basks/manti seems to be the way to go now

Artillery are good, cost effective, but basilisk is only S8 and manticore AP-1. They are not desgined to fight T11+ sv2+ tanks, and would become very ineffective once opponent active AP/dmg reduct stratagems. Real tanks are still needed. 

[sairence]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:34 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Combo.

 

Artillery, buffed by an exterminator and scout sentinel.

 

this way no indirect nerf, reroll 1s to hit, and an extra AP.

 

 

And a Hellhound to remove cover. :D

[jarms48]

12 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

"Platoons" haven't really been a thing since 5th edition.  I still think of my force as a company broken down into platoons but that's head cannon. 

 

7th edition. 8th is what threw it out the window.

 

  

21 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Agree. "Bring back a whole sentinel squad with stratagem" feel like a trap. 210pts for 21 T8 2+ wounds is good price on defensive end, but just 3 lascannon(or whatever cannon) shots per turn is too light on offensive end. Opponent could ignore it if knocked down it to the last model. 

 

Plasma hazardous overheat becoming flat 3 wounds is annoying, and S8 plasma is no longer "good against everything" choice. If locked at non-charge mode, is a plasma sponson better than heavy bolter?

 

150 for 3 scout sentinels. Main draw of plasma is blast. Fire it into a big squad and you basically double your shots. 

[Marshal Rohr]

10 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

You really can’t equate rules to lore…like at all.

 

if you want to build an infantry company via your army list create whatever lore organization you want.

 

my regiment each infantry company is just over 100 men.

10 10 man infantry squads and their transports.

a captain and 2 LTs as platoon leaders.

 

i can build that or i can just build whatever I want on tabletop within the rules

“you can’t really equate rules to lore” is for librarians not nuking a hundred chaos marines with the power of the emperor. Not turning a war game into a table top mobile game with weird unintuitive unit caps. This edition is starting badly and needs to seriously rework how armies are selected. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

“you can’t really equate rules to lore” is for librarians not nuking a hundred chaos marines with the power of the emperor. Not turning a war game into a table top mobile game with weird unintuitive unit caps. This edition is starting badly and needs to seriously rework how armies are selected. 

If you say so, however in third a platoon could have up to 55 models in it.

most modern militaries don’t reach anywhere near 55 men in a a standard infantry platoon

 

a fully sized platoon in 3rd was closer in size to a company than any real world platoon.

US army company sizes can range from about 40 soldiers to 200

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Military-Units/Army/#:~:text=A company has anywhere from,generally commanded by a captain.

 

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Military-Units/marine-corps/

 

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/army-organisation#:~:text=A platoon is a part,a lieutenant or second lieutenant.

 

so my point about rules and lore applies to every edition of guard that I’m aware of.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[TCC]

I have been list building and the Russ is not making the cut, I tried adding one or two but the cost of them vs other equipment is just not worth it and does synergies with what I’m trying to do. I’m going for durable infantry squads by using two leaders and an ogryn bodyguard, sentinels and artillery.

 

Also I’m using agis defence line (since I only just painted it), but I think it will be strong, it stops first turn changes getting to the troops and gives troops 4++ -  the enemy cannot pass over the line as it’s a model so they have to charge it and destroy it. Also I have found you can give Lord Solar 4 orders with grand strategist and relay over a master Vox to 24inchs. Solar can also order the Agis defence line (to take cover) to give it more durability against AP2 weapons to maintain its 3+ save (-1 for cover and -1 for take cover). Also you can apply that order to the defence line before anyone starts the game for 1CP using inspired command.

[Sergeant Bastone]

c'mon, there's no way you should be able to give orders to an Aegis defense line

[TCC]

^^ it has some buttons and lights on the model, not to much of stretch that it can be turned on to defence mod (hahaha)

[Trickstick]

1 hour ago, TCC said:

Solar can also order the Agis defence line (to take cover) to give it more durability against AP2 weapons to maintain its 3+ save (-1 for cover and -1 for take cover). Also you can apply that order to the defence line before anyone starts the game for 1CP using inspired command.

 

You can't use take cover to improve a save past 3+, so it has no effect on an aegis. Also, as it is a characteristic improvement, it works seperately to roll modifiers. So you can't use it to offset ap modifiers.

[sairence]

Just a note, you can't give enhancements to epic heroes, so no grand strategist for Leontus.

 

And Cover does work on 3+ saves, but only if the attack has any AP.

 

So 3+ with cover against AP0 = no effect

3+ with cover against AP-1 or more = effectively ignore a point of AP.

Edited June 18, 2023 by sairence

[TCC]

28 minutes ago, sairence said:

Just a note, you can't give enhancements to epic heroes, so no grand strategist for Leontus.

 

And Cover does work on 3+ saves, but only if the attack has any AP.

 

So 3+ with cover against AP0 = no effect

3+ with cover against AP-1 or more = effectively ignore a point of AP.

shame about grand strategist 

You could order the aegis defence line to move move move and make it move 3inchs.

[Trickstick]

Unfortunately, move - means you can't move for any reason.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Trickstick