Guard Index

[Trickstick]

After some discussion, I'm not actually sure you can't use tactical genius with reinforcement. Rules like deadly demise show that interactions can happen between being destroyed and being removed from the battlefield. The question is definitely ambiguous enough to need an FAQ.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Trickstick

[Sergeant Bastone]

12 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/data/lists/abaf7511c3e9ae2d0ce0c925e6b2d9b9.json

 

IG list with 3*basilisk, 3*manticore and 0*tank won a GT.

 

IG artillery can't pretend to be innocent. They can't escape the incoming indirect nerf.

I think they should just increase point costs on the things that are too good (basilisks and manticores).  The Field Ordnance Battery is probably appropriately costed right?

[Sergeant Bastone]

Modeling Q: So now that everything pays for a hunter-killer missile I'm digging through boxes to find them.  Does the Leman Russ kit come with a hunter killer?  Nothing on these sprues looks like a HK missile to me.

[jarms48]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

I think they should just increase point costs on the things that are too good (basilisks and manticores).  The Field Ordnance Battery is probably appropriately costed right?

 

HWS, FOB, and Wyvern are fine. The rest definitely need an increase.

 

30 minutes ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

Modeling Q: So now that everything pays for a hunter-killer missile I'm digging through boxes to find them.  Does the Leman Russ kit come with a hunter killer?  Nothing on these sprues looks like a HK missile to me.

 

Sadly no. You gotta buy this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Imperial-Guard-Tank-Accessories

 

Or get them on ebay from a bits seller. It's really stupid, cause that accessory sprue use to come with every Guard vehicle. 

[Emperor Ming]

I was thinking about platoon command loadout, trying to squeeze a heavy weapon in, now that vox banner and medic are useful:/

[sairence]

Don't think the heavy weapon is worth it over the utility of the other bits. At best you could argue that you don't need the banner, if you're very confident you won't take too many losses on the unit.

[Sergeant Bastone]

Do we have a ruling on whether the banner works if you're battleshocked?  

 

Personally my platoon command squad gets a heavy flamer.

[sairence]

I believe it's in the rules commentary. You first reset values, then add modifiers.

 

So Battleshock sets your OC to 0, then the banner adds 1 OC for each model in the unit.

 

So basically a Platoon Command squad with the banners lets you avoid pretty much all penalties of battleshock.

[sairence]

So blanket increases on all pieces with indirect options, looks like about 20p for most models. Probably still playable, but you likely don't want to go all in anymore. Could have been worse, my Knights got hit way harder.

 

Poor FoB though, paying for the theoretical sins of one of its three options.

[Minsc]

Deathstrike went from overpriced to trash. Ahh well, at least I got to use it once in 10th...

 

Manticore/Basilisk went from underpriced to fairly priced.

 

Wyvern/FOB went from fairly priced to overpriced, especially if you're not using Bombasts.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Minsc

[Tokugawa]

FW earthshaker is damaged less. Not a good news: if more players bring them to tournaments, they will soon be nuked.

[Santaclauswitz]

Points adjustments

Praetor +50

Colossus +30

Basilisk, deathstrike +25

Wyvern, manticore, all FOB's +20

Medusa carriage +15

Basilisk carriage +5

 

I had a wyvern, manticore, basilisk and heavy las FOB in my list. That will now cost 495. Each of those I'd been considering an alternative: mortar hws squad for wyvern, medusa for manticore, earthshaker for basilisk and 3 rapiers for the Las FOB. These options will now cost 310. That's a heck of a difference. 

[TCC]

It’s a big nurf, I’m not sure if we can be competitive now and feel we are back to 9th pre codex levels of underdog - which was very tough to win a game.

 

I play all my games in a very competitive league and know I’m going to get smashed every game if I continue to play guard unless I get lucky (I just cannot see many different list builds that will work other than Baneblade spam and indirect spam). 

[Emperor Ming]

FOB got a points increase

[Tokugawa]

It isn't a balance patch. It is just an "emergency" nerf to indirect, and IG artillery are hit by it, but some of them(FOB, Wyvern) are already not good before it.

[Sergeant Bastone]

10 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

FOB got a points increase

I can't believe it.  First of all, it's clear that the different builds should have been different datasheets.  Secondly, do they not realize that they made these things BS5?  And that since orders don't splash anymore telling them to Take Aim is 100% of the orders of a 50-65 point officer?  And that Take Aim doesn't help AP anymore?  You don't even get their special ability unless you stand still AND are given an order so you might as well factor in the cost of an officer directly into the unit.  What are S7 AP-1 D2 blasts even good against?  Bombasts are beautiful models, they even have a working breech!  But it's like they want them to always be a terrible choice.

 

[Sergeant Bastone]

With this fixed wargear cost adjusting for a points increase is really annoying.  I can't just drop a hunter-killer and power sword somewhere; i have to drop an entire unit, none of which are 20 points.  So if i drop an infantry squad I need to find a way to spend exactly 45 points or suffer the feels bad of leaving points on the table.  Or off the table.

[jarms48]

16 hours ago, Santaclauswitz said:

Points adjustments

Praetor +50

Colossus +30

Basilisk, deathstrike +25

Wyvern, manticore, all FOB's +20

Medusa carriage +15

Basilisk carriage +5

 

I had a wyvern, manticore, basilisk and heavy las FOB in my list. That will now cost 495. Each of those I'd been considering an alternative: mortar hws squad for wyvern, medusa for manticore, earthshaker for basilisk and 3 rapiers for the Las FOB. These options will now cost 310. That's a heck of a difference. 

 

Colossus increase is hilarious. The datasheet is missing heavy and indirect on the weapon, and the profile is missing the artillery keyword. 

[Spyboy]

So unless I am mistaken, RaW you can not take a special weapon in an infantry squad if you take a heavy weapon team.  I'm not misreading it right? That is what it says? Same reason you can only take 1 special weapon if you 2 Heavy weapon teams in a big squad.  If I'm right then whoever proofread these things is horrible at it.

[sairence]

1 hour ago, Spyboy said:

So unless I am mistaken, RaW you can not take a special weapon in an infantry squad if you take a heavy weapon team.  I'm not misreading it right? That is what it says? Same reason you can only take 1 special weapon if you 2 Heavy weapon teams in a big squad.  If I'm right then whoever proofread these things is horrible at it.

 

Correct. If you take a heavy, your unit technically has less than 10 models. You also can't take a Vox. Needs an FAQ.

[Sergeant Bastone]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:42 PM, Tokugawa said:

Agree. "Bring back a whole sentinel squad with stratagem" feel like a trap. 210pts for 21 T8 2+ wounds is good price on defensive end, but just 3 lascannon(or whatever cannon) shots per turn is too light on offensive end. Opponent could ignore it if knocked down it to the last model. 

 

Plasma hazardous overheat becoming flat 3 wounds is annoying, and S8 plasma is no longer "good against everything" choice. If locked at non-charge mode, is a plasma sponson better than heavy bolter?

I did this for the first time and while my Grey Knights opponent was outraged that I could bring them back after he worked so hard to kill them, the sentinels didn't really do much before or after.  They're really hard to kill but, yeah, 210 points for 3 lascannon shots feels quite underwhelming.

[domsto]

Well the Armourded Sentinal is currently our best Armour we can field.

It can be easiely Ordered due to beeing Regimental

It can reroll wounds against Vehicals and Monsters. Which is a important Ability against tougher Targets against we are currentlyx struggelnig.

A 3 Model Unit brings more wounds on the Table for same/less points as a Leman Russ.

And cherry on Top you can bring them back.

 

Only Problem is that it still isn't great, but all alternatives are worse....

[sairence]

I think that's more an issue with using it on Armoured Sentinels. They're a unit I want to like, every edition, but that, for me at least, always falls short and I end up taking Scouts instead, as the extra mobility is just so much more useful.

 

And in this Index, the buff-potential from the Scouts is so good, that I always want at least one unit around. So using those two CP to keep bringing back that 150p unit always feels worth it. I had a game against Eldar recently and thanks to Reinforcments I ended up having effectively five squads of Scouts instead of 2, that never stopped being annoying for my opponent. And we didn't even play out all 5 turns, due to time constraints.

[Emperor Ming]

A lot of units need a points reduction

 

Being one of the bottom codexs has its advantages I suppose, guard should theoretically get some love

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

I did this for the first time and while my Grey Knights opponent was outraged that I could bring them back after he worked so hard to kill them, the sentinels didn't really do much before or after.  They're really hard to kill but, yeah, 210 points for 3 lascannon shots feels quite underwhelming.

I know it’s hard to quantify but if your GK opponent had to work hard to kill them and was outraged you could bring them back, then I’m sure doing so had a much larger effect than you might be giving them credit for since i doubt he left them alone.