Index Errata and Tournament Companion

[Sea Creature]

Towering will be addressed as well.

[Petitioner's City]

Tbh my one worry with continual updates is catching up; I won't play a game of 10th for a few months probably, due to moving and other thing.

 

I never did manage to play 9th as beginning in the pandemic, not being able to play at the start, I never caught up, my interest died, I played other things 

 

While I'm glad we won't have a big balance doc til December or January, i do wonder how hard it will be to adapt to any changes between then and now even?

 

Ps: naive question time - how much will changes in balance slates apply to non-competitive play? Or is it mainly for them? Sometimes I am not 100% sure how modular 40k is, or is everything "game" once released? 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[aura_enchanted]

the tournament sheet is going to get torn apart by tactical tortoise

[Holier Than Thou]

28 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

Would you rather errors and mistakes weren't addressed? 

 I think we’d all rather those mistakes were caught before being sold as a premium product. There will always be a couple of errors that slip through, but come on!! One of them is Daemon Prince of Chaos - add Daemon keyword. It’s embarrassing that they continue to expect the people who pay for this stuff to do their work for them.

 

Serious question, wouldn’t YOU rather get a decent product when you are paying money for it? Because the Indexes were riddled with errors, far more than this errata has addressed and most of them were instantly identified when the people who actually give a damn laid eyes on them.

[TrawlingCleaner]

15 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

Ps: naive question time - how much will changes in balance slates apply to non-competitive play? Or is it mainly for them? Sometimes I am not 100% sure how modular 40k is, or is everything "game" once released? 

 

Going by 9th edition:

 

Index/Codex Erratas are for all versions of play

Rulebook Erratas are for all versions of play

Points changes are for all versions of play

Tournament packs like Arks of Omen or this new Leviathan Tournment companion, are only for tournaments/Matched play if your group is cutthroat (not looking to start another discussion on MatchedvsComp play)

 

That said, there are those that don't use any erratas or points updates and just use whatever was originally published. It's definitely not for me but more power to them

Basically, most of the stuff GW put out is for all players

[Petitioner's City]

Thanks, that's very helpful @TrawlingCleaner - was especially confused how it can interact with Crusade, especially the updates, but I'm sure that will be ironed out along the way (I did find that Uber confusing in 9th, which made it more of a barrier at times). 

 

I guess Combat Patrol is now the weird one, and maybe boarding patrol, depending on how they update those rules through the edition too.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Combat Patrol, Boarding Patrol and Crusade are all probably pretty safe from any kind of Errata. They're pretty squared away in terms of how they interact with the Core of the game, they just work and they don't really need balancing once they're out. I also imagine they won't get anywhere near the same amount of Development time/fiddling that Casual and Comp play will get

[Marshal Reinhard]

Voiced this already. But all the mistakes we got initially are fine in a digital only environment. Just update, put a small blurb somewhere "updated date xyz"

 

The problem arises when a printed product is sold that is wrought with this amount of errors. Why pay for something that's largely unusuable by the time it's released without pages of fixes? Part of why I feel the rules should go pure digital if they're gonna be flux for their entire span. If they cannot commit to keep the rules virtually free from errors or constant throughout the edition, then don't charge for printed versions of them.

 

But people want their shiny books (I'm one of them, but I'm less bothered by the rules content also being there)

[Doctor Perils]

1 hour ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

It does cost money to print them out on cardstock, etc, so while the online product is free, to use it like the bought product you have to exchange some coin in that process - the last I checked that can be quite pricey, as it's not a standard size? (unless you have some fancy free printing :) )

 

So if you have bought the cards (and I find the AoS ones rather useful), you can always correct them :) 

Thankfully I predicted them having problems like this so didn't buy them :P still, you can't tell me they're not milking the customers for the price they're being sold at

 

In any case, there's no reasonable explanation for the printed cards to be this different from the virtual cards that were released weeks ago - the initial virtual release should have been identical to the print versions, with the July errata only happening once to both at the same time (this way everyone has the same ruleset at the same time); or the virtual cards should have been released months in advance to the print cards, to act as beta tests - and then release a new version of the virtual cards alongside the physical ones

[Balerion84]

Interesting, earlier today I was watching some custodes video and the guy mentioned there's apparently a rumor going around that a balance update will be coming 7.7.? After reading this article, I might actually believe it

 

interesting 

 

fingers crossed for points reduction on orion, ares, venatari and bikes 

[MARK0SIAN]

4 hours ago, Kallas said:

It basically removes half of the impact of terrain. You can see and be seen by Towering models, even with the 'obscuring' terrain elements in the way, so it makes it hard to hide Towering models - but also means Towering models are hard to hide from, so the high firepower of the various Knights is easy to leverage.

I accept the current situation is less than ideal but I’m quite nervous about the fix. I’d rather have the current situation than the previous one where everyone could see knights but they couldn’t see anyone. Terrain was pure detriment to knights previously and I’m concerned they’ll revert to that way of doing things. 

[Balerion84]

7 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I accept the current situation is less than ideal but I’m quite nervous about the fix. I’d rather have the current situation than the previous one where everyone could see knights but they couldn’t see anyone. Terrain was pure detriment to knights previously and I’m concerned they’ll revert to that way of doing things. 

Any ideas how it could be solved? 

[Aarik]

Good to see that they’re moving quickly to fix at least some of the most busted problems. My worry, however, is that the existence of the physical data sheet cards will make them hesitant to make sweeping data sheet changes to the factions that seem to need them the most like Death Guard, Ad Mech, and maybe Sisters and Votann (I just don’t know enough about the last two to be sure if they fit this category). Personally, I’d much rather sacrifice the utility of the printed cards in favor of fixed rules, but I’m not confident GW will be willing to admit they missed the mark so badly by making the sweeping changes that seem to be needed. 

[SgtSharp]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

So a good chunk of the printed cards that people paid for that arent even released are now wrong and obsolete? 

I received an Email that my cards will be delayed so it could be that at least for a few people they will be sending out the corrected cards

[Interrogator Stobz]

@Balerion84Remove the silly notion that a 5" ruin blocks LoS all the way to space.

Make terrain make sense again.

Towering shouldn't need to exist.

 

...And buy 3 level terrain to block LoS for  Knights etc as required. There is heaps out there now,we ain't starved for it anymore.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[MARK0SIAN]

46 minutes ago, Balerion84 said:

Any ideas how it could be solved? 

I’d be fine if the lack of visibility worked both ways, so the Knight can’t see but also can’t be seen. I just don’t want it to be as one sided as it used to be.

 

 

[MithrilForge]

Well, can’t say I wasn’t expecting that to happen, I looked at the cards and thought hmmm $40.00 , how soon before they need a fix… way sooner than I thought, I am glad they’re addressing the problems but that should’ve been looked at and addressed before printing… this does prove GW doesn’t play test or proof read for that matter… they’re so big as a company but act like a small time mom and pop business (who actually would’ve play tested their product probably better ) 

GW baffles me with their dumb practices…great models …. Very average rules effort…. 

[Balerion84]

10 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

@Balerion84Remove the silly notion that a 5" ruin blocks LoS all the way to space.

Make terrain make sense again.

Towering shouldn't need to exist.

 

...And buy 3 level terrain to block LoS for  Knights etc as required. There is heaps out there now,we ain't starved for it anymore.

I'm not sure I'm following. Doesn't the current issue with towering exist exactly because the notion that 5" ruin blocks LoS all the way to the space was removed? 

 

I have plenty of 3 level high terrain but it's all thematic ruins with windows, so how will that fix the issue? 

 

I'm genuinely asking, I haven't played against Knights yet, maybe tomorrow but seeing the amount of negative feedback about towering is concerning. 

[MadEdric]

So Chaos Rhinos still don't have firing decks like the Imperial Rhino.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by MadEdric
Double post

[Interrogator Stobz]

Maybe I've missed something too, will check.

 

but in my head: Shoot through is not allowed , shoot over is.

Simple really.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[Balerion84]

Just now, Interrogator Stobz said:

Shoot through is not allowed , shoot over is.

Simple really.

interesting, might give that a try when I play Knights next

[Interrogator Stobz]

It actually helps small minis too.

It means getting up to high levels has value, because you can see over intervening lower ruins.

Stops 40k being 2D like 9th.

 

But if you can see you can be seen.... dum dum duuuuum

[Halandaar]

6 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

Tbh my one worry with continual updates is catching up; I won't play a game of 10th for a few months probably, due to moving and other thing.

 

I never did manage to play 9th as beginning in the pandemic, not being able to play at the start, I never caught up, my interest died, I played other things 

 

Yeah probably the same for me. If 10th is going to have quarterly updates to the core via errata and points on top of Codex creep and the inevitable arrival of Generals Handbook style seasonal weirdness then this edition is probably going to pass me by altogether. I don't play enough games to warrant the effort of keeping up with it all, i'd probably be in a position where the core rules of the game change each time I play, at best.

 

If Combat Patrol stays static maybe I'll give that a crack but honestly this tournament-focused update cadence is a massive turn off for me.

[Commissar Yossarian]

1 hour ago, Balerion84 said:

Any ideas how it could be solved? 

Make towering use the indirect rules when shooting through obscuring.

 

Minor nerf, but not magical one way mirrors.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Sent out to those attending GW's Tacoma event on the 15th July: