Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[DuskRaider]

1 hour ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

I just don't understand the pessimism. GW haven't axed a full game for years now, and they often have the same models useable in multiple games. You don't see people who play Kill Team saying 10th will be the death knell of that.

And even if GW does stop putting out new AT releases, well then the AT player can go join the cool ranks of the other games who were cast out into the cold and survived, like BFG, BloodBowl and well, Epic. 

I think it’s more the complete lack of support for AT (and AI) over the past… what, year and a half or so? That has people worried, including myself.

 

I had mentioned a few days ago that Epic was the nail in Titanicus’ coffin back in the day and for some odd reason people disagreed with me. I’m guessing it’s because they weren’t actually around for that. Epic killed Titanicus v1 and I think people are rightly concerned that Legions Imperialis will kill Titanicus 2018. 
 

I *love* the idea of incorporating both AT and AI models into the game and it was great foresight to have them all in the same scale to allow that, but speaking from an AT player it’s the most fun I’ve had playing a GW game since FW 30K and support has all but dried up. The last releases were the ridiculously overpriced FW Knights and that’s it. The game timeline feels incomplete, like a project that was started and then abandoned. 
 

Now with LI I’ll have the option to field *some* of my Titans, but I have a massive amount. Hell, I still have a bunch that aren’t even fully assembled. 

I do hope this gives the game new life but I also hope LI isn’t rising from the desiccated corpse of what has been the best rules and game GW has written in a long time. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

5 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

I think it’s more the complete lack of support for AT (and AI) over the past… what, year and a half or so? That has people worried, including myself.

In the last year we've had two books and two new weapon sets.

 

In the last week we've gained two new weapons and a new plastics investment? Including a transfer of two/three resin weapons to plastic.

 

AT is no necromunda, or warcry, but to say it's had a "complete lack of support" is fallacious 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Sword Brother Adelard

[apologist]

Got to agree with @Burni that the comparison is not the most useful. I can see why GW might not want to give out exact heights to avoid third parties beating them to the punch (though I think that's rather locking the gate after the horse has bolted!), but that's not very useful for us. Apart from anything else, it's weird to include the 30k miniature's base but not the Epic miniature's base.

 

I worked up a quick comparison using a Primaris marine (which is probably the most familiar model to us these days), and made sure the marine (unlike the one in the article) is show from roughly the same angle. I've also left the Epic mini's base in, and have tried to put the centre of the miniature overhead to account for the angle.

 

 

I don't think we've had the base size confirmed yet, have we? I've shown it besides the most likely base sizes. 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by apologist

[Azaiel]

So, are these new minis in plastic or not?

I cant seem to find an answer anywhere.

[BolterZorro]

5 minutes ago, apologist said:

I don't think we've had the base size confirmed yet, have we? I've shown it besides the most likely base sizes. 

It has been confirmed 25mm

 

[Burni]

1 minute ago, Azaiel said:

So, are these new minis in plastic or not?

I cant seem to find an answer anywhere.

It was confirmed as plastic on GW's social media. A screenshot is somewhere in this thread.

[DuskRaider]

17 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

In the last year we've had two books and two new weapon sets.

 

In the last week we've gained two new weapons and a new plastics investment? Including a transfer of two/three resin weapons to plastic.

 

AT is no necromunda, or warcry, but to say it's had a "complete lack of support" is fallacious 

The last two books were compilations of all of the other books. Are we talking the Volkite weapons? I’m pretty sure they’re well over a year now but I could be wrong. 
 

The LI plastic weapons are neither in favor nor against the abandonment of AT, they’re boxed with the LI Starter Box and will probably be available with Warhounds in LI boxes but they already have AT rules. Does it mean AT itself will receive more support? No. Does it mean that AT is defunct and everything from here on out will be for LI? No. 
 

I’m not trying to be a Negative Nancy, I’ve been waiting on baited breath for a new Epic ever since AT was released and even modeled my Titans and Knights with Death Guard Forumware models in hopes we would see this come to fruition. I just don’t want to see my substantial investment no longer receive the support that it deserves. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The matched play guide was all new stuff. 

Volkites were June 2021, but Grav weapons came out late last year, and Conversion Beamers earlier this year. We also had the Dire Wolf only May last year.

[apologist]

1 minute ago, DuskRaider said:

The last two books were compilations of all of the other books. Are we talking the Volkite weapons? I’m pretty sure they’re well over a year now but I could be wrong. 
 

The LI plastic weapons are neither in favor nor against the abandonment of AT, they’re boxed with the LI Starter Box and will probably be available with Warhounds in LI boxes but they already have AT rules. Does it mean AT itself will receive more support? No. Does it mean that AT is defunct and everything from here on out will be for LI? No. 
 

I’m not trying to be a Negative Nancy, I’ve been waiting on baited breath for a new Epic ever since AT was released and even modeled my Titans and Knights with Death Guard Forumware models in hopes we would see this come to fruition. I just don’t want to see my substantial investment no longer receive the support that it deserves. 

 

The last releases for TItanicus were the conversion beam weapons. 

 

Personally, I think Adeptus Titanicus (and Aeronautica) are likely to be sidelined by Legions. They're in a peculiar space; standalone games which have substantial overlap with the new game. I can't think of an equivalent in the Boxed Games range; but it's perhaps worth taking heart from the fact GW clearly see the benefit in keeping two small-scale fantasy skirmish games (Warcry and Underworlds) ticking over together.

 

I think the realistic best case scenario for Adeptus Titanicus is that it goes to Direct Only (not a huge problem – most of the Boxed Games range is Direct Only once its season is over), and benefits from simultaneous rules with appropriate Legions releases, such as the much-awaited Rapier Titan, for example.

 

In this model, the only difference is that Titanicus models will be supplied in generic white boxes rather than boxes with specific artwork; and that might actually work to the game's benefit.

 

The downside for Titanicus is that it's essentially then parasitic on Legions, and I think it unlikely that it would then receive standalone updates/campaign books.

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

In the last year we've had two books and two new weapon sets.

 

In the last week we've gained two new weapons and a new plastics investment? Including a transfer of two/three resin weapons to plastic.

 

AT is no necromunda, or warcry, but to say it's had a "complete lack of support" is fallacious 

 

It's definitely not been 0 support, but very little support wouldn't be too off the mark. Things like corrupted knights, other classes of psytitans, new classes of titans to fit into scale 7; these were all things the rules either implied were going to come eventually, or explicitly said there was going to be rules for. They definitely took the foot off the AT pedal for the Epic one, in a way very similar to heresy 1st to 2nd (like how valdors rules referred to an emperor model that obviously never happened in 1st). 

 

A couple of gun options that skip half the available classes and two books that aren't really useful for anything other than what could have been in a FAQ? Eh...

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I'll be the first to agree that it could be better, and there are clearly things we should have got which we haven't, looking at the gaps in the rules, and it's far from what other games of its rank get.

But I'm not seeing this release as bad for AT, at worst it will be neutral, at best, it could be the making of it.

 

[apologist]

I'd agree support for Titanicus has been rather thin. I'm a huge fan of the game – it really is brilliant – so I'd love to see more for it. Having said that, I think the team has rather run out of steam for it.

 

It's fairly broadly known that it was intended and designed as a very limited, small-scale specialist game, and that GW were surprised by its popularity. They're stumbled a bit with support – not helped with the global pandemic – and a couple of mis-steps (like big gaps in releases, and weird decisions like making the Iconoclast and Warmaster two separate Titans). Overall, the result has been a game that punched well above its weight, but because of it's initial aim, now requires some real forethought in how to expand it.

 

I'd love to see things like Scale 7 Titans, a non-Nemesis Warbringer, the Rapier etc. but ultimately it's really just shuffling the deckchairs; and it only requires one duff release – like the much-reviled Knight Porphyrion – to unbalance or spoil what amounts to a rather nice 'complete' game.

 

Speaking as a big supporter of Titanicus, then, I think I'm happy with where it sits, and would rather GW gave it three or so years to lie fallow then come back with a proper tidied-up 2nd edition; in the meantime throwing it a few bones by making appropriate Legion releases compatible.

[Colman]

5 minutes ago, apologist said:

Speaking as a big supporter of Titanicus, then, I think I'm happy with where it sits, and would rather GW gave it three or so years to lie fallow then come back with a proper tidied-up 2nd edition; in the meantime throwing it a few bones by making appropriate Legion releases compatible.

Yep: issue consoles and rules for any  new epic Titans and we’re happy.

[BolterZorro]

Strategically speaking for a company like GW, I see IL as a good move.

AT and AI are niche games that have prepared the terrain for IL with a full range of miniatures compatible with IL. 

Now we have IL as a lead in the Epic Scale new keyword.  AT starter is out of stock but only temporarily and it is not only a good compliment for the IL starter  but also an invitation to a side game. AT will benefit from IL. For example, with 2 IL + AT you have 2 full armies and 2 games for a reasonable amount of money. This is good.

In fact, GW did with AT the other way around that they did with 40k with killteam.

[Noserenda]

Yeah support may not have been 0 for AT but its not been anywhere past absolutely minimal, reprint books, extreme low effort weapon releases and even the last Titan was a year ago, resin and also a little low effort feeling to some of the other releases (Though thats subjective obviously). AI hasnt had anything at all since the Custodes Ares i think? 

Im hoping its going to be like AoD second edition and we get a glut of held back releases like another sprue for every titan in the new boxes, you could easily support that if they have been sitting on AT releases for a year. But im not exactly holding my breath :D 

The scale comparison isnt particularly helpful but it does nail down 25mm bases i think, i suspect we will see a whole bunch of empty articles if they are coming daily unfortunately.

[Lord Marshal]

The lack of Corrupted Titan models has been the strangest thing. Maybe we'll see them with Legions Imperialis. 

[Noserenda]

Yeah it does feel like they cut off a bunch of planned AT stuff, like we got hints at corrupted knights but no rules, and no minis for anything to be warp touched.

[Dark Shepherd]

Not sure if it was ever proven or verified but wasnt there a big leak or supposed insider info dump a while back where they said AI broke even?

[Urauloth]

5 hours ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

I just don't understand the pessimism. GW haven't axed a full game for years now, and they often have the same models useable in multiple games. You don't see people who play Kill Team saying 10th will be the death knell of that.

And even if GW does stop putting out new AT releases, well then the AT player can go join the cool ranks of the other games who were cast out into the cold and survived, like BFG, BloodBowl and well, Epic. 

The problem is that if you don't already play AT, you don't have the books and the essential materials (terminals etc) and if they axe the game we won't be able to get those. We're already there with AI, because while it's possible to buy the rules and miniatures (although they're disappearing), there are no game boards. Unless they bring them back at some point or there are viable third party stand-ins, people won't be able to start playing.

 

Best case, though, is that they rebox AT models and Imperial AI units with LI bases as well as their original ones so they can be used for either system. I don't expect to see it, though. I think AI is dead.

 

Edit: On the subject of LI itself, the more we see of the miniatures the more hyped I am for them. Love the astartes infantry stands as well, looking forward to painting them as Death Guard. (I think... they'd look great as Iron Warriors or Word Bearers as well... if this was Mk IV armour I'd absolutely do a Calth theme for this set)

 

Edit II: If you made an epic scale hex board for it and ignored the slight discrepency in armour marks, you could totally make a mini version of Betrayal at Calth with thise tiny space marines, right? I'd need to see how the boxes break down, but you've got tacticals, special weapons, terminators and contemptors in there. Depending on how expensive the astartes troops are and what you get on the sprues, I might be really tempted to do this.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Urauloth

[Matcap86]

That's my only criticism of this starter. All marines are Mk6. Death by beakie since the relaunch of HH. I'd VASTLY prefer Mk4 or 3.

[sitnam]

52 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

The lack of Corrupted Titan models has been the strangest thing. Maybe we'll see them with Legions Imperialis. 

I think the setting has to do with it. Corrupted chaos stuff existed in 30k, but it was far from common as the Traitor Titans of the future. For some reason GW has been very hesitant on chaos stuff for their epic scale stuff

[Warmaster1988]

19 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

That's my only criticism of this starter. All marines are Mk6. Death by beakie since the relaunch of HH. I'd VASTLY prefer Mk4 or 3.

 

I also would prefer Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4; I was panning Armies for all four Legions on Istvaan III...

 

Note the Predator Tank Commander wears Mk2, I hope we get them as seperate Infantry...

 

I also dieslike those "Bases" between the Infantry Legs. Hope they're only because those are Resin Masters.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Warmaster1988

[Joe]

Just now, Warmaster1988 said:

Note the Predator Tank Commander wears Mk2, I hope we geht them seperate...

 

This is largely due to the fact that the Predator will have been built using the CADs from the 28mm model as the basis, dramatically scaled down and altered to better fit the new scale. This is how they did it with Adeptus Titanicus, and how they'll be doing it with Legions Imperialis.

 

Consequently, this means they've designed 28mm CADs for the Aethon Heavy Sentinel, the wider Solar Auxilia infantry, the Leman Russ and the Malcador, for example.

[SkimaskMohawk]

15 minutes ago, sitnam said:

I think the setting has to do with it. Corrupted chaos stuff existed in 30k, but it was far from common as the Traitor Titans of the future. For some reason GW has been very hesitant on chaos stuff for their epic scale stuff

 

Maybe they shouldn't have made the defining selling point of the traitor legion rules the corruptions then? 

 

That's like them never making the psy titan for loyalists.

[DuskRaider]

They made rules for corrupt Titans but… that was it. No supporting models, no progression on the idea, nothing. Like the idea was there and they had future plans but then just abandoned it all because… actually, I don’t know. AT sold very well, it was quite popular for a while and the only thing that slowed it down was lack of support in the way of unavailable resources and no new models… or the ones that they did release were FW only and ridiculously expensive. Just look at the Armigers. What a joke.