Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Cyrox]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but back in March they actually showed us the base for Legions Imperialis when they previewed the extirpator conversion beam arms for the Warhound:

 

 

 

They have since edited the article to fog out the lower half of the titans  

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Cyrox

[Noserenda]

50 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

It’s odd they are removing the Valkyrie bodies, since those definitely existed in the Heresy. There is art in Collected Visions and they’re mentioned in the Books. Iirc, they chose not to include Valkyries in AoD because they wanted to avoid cheesy Flyer spam dominating. 

I suspect its run afoul of the same problem as the other Guard transports. The kit is made of plastic as part of a 40k range, so FW do their best to pretend it doesn't exist. See the militia list that has necromunda trucks and frakking gorgons as (non dedicated) transport options for an army whose selling point is limitless variety.

There was loads of cheesy flyer spam in AoD 1, they "solved" it by making flyers crap :D 

50 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

It’s odd they are removing the Valkyrie bodies, since those definitely existed in the Heresy. There is art in Collected Visions and they’re mentioned in the Books. Iirc, they chose not to include Valkyries in AoD because they wanted to avoid cheesy Flyer spam dominating. 

I suspect its run afoul of the same problem as the other Guard transports. The kit is made of plastic as part of a 40k range, so FW do their best to pretend it doesn't exist. See the militia list that has necromunda trucks and frakking gorgons as (non dedicated) transport options for an army whose selling point is limitless variety.

There was loads of cheesy flyer spam in AoD 1, they "solved" it by making flyers crap :D 

[Marshal Rohr]

18 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

All I’ve really seen is existing AT terrain, both GW and FW. Maybe someone has a better eye than myself but I’m not seeing anything new. 

The models are standing on a tile like the ZM tiles. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Noserenda]

58 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

It could cause LOS issues to use really old models in some games?

Titans maybe? They got a lot bigger, but most things are still roughly the same size? Can always give benefit of the doubt.

[Indy Techwisp]

What is with GW and consistently taking the most "One step forward, 3 miles back" approach to everything?

 

Not only is this whole "return of epic" just another way to pad half the store with Marines, but if you were an AI player that used anything other than Space Marines, now your whole game is gone in favour of GW's preferred alt-setting to poorly shove down consumer's throats.

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Trying to force a mass battles game into a skirmish board doesn’t sit well with me, but the economically inclined portion of my brain realizes it’s about as much money to densely populate a 6x4 with terrain as it is to buy a new army. Giant open fields works sometimes, but most modern combat is going to be urban and at this scale a 6x4 filled with terrain would be insanely expensive unless you are fine with that old school six buildings in the middle of a grass field style game. 
 

Edit: I wonder if I couldn’t get some sheets of 1mm tiling plasticard and make 2x2 zones so there is a mix of open and dense plazas and buildings 

 

In my experiences, you can do a lot with the battlefield in a box stuff, troublemaker terrain:

 https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/ruined-gothic-city-set/

https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/industrial-sector-buildings-set/

 

the drop zone commander buildings, and even aquarium terrain for castles and things. 

 

But ya, as bolter zerro mentioned and got freaked out on for, the best way to fill the board at the scale is....printing.

[Petitioner's City]

56 minutes ago, Cyrox said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but back in March they actually showed us the base for Legions Imperialis when they previewed the extirpator conversion beam arms for the Warhound:

 

 

 

They have since edited the article to fog out the lower half of the titans  

 

 

 

Yes very often! The first time - which I think inspired spiky bits's article on the subject - was here. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Again, not relevant because GW is designing the game and recommending board sizes on THEIR PRODUCT not something you can do on your own. So while you can make a 6x4 board with printing, it doesn’t [redacted] matter, because the game isn’t designed for it. It’s a mass battles game. Artillery and Marco weapon ranges will be set based on what they envision is the best size board, and if that is 4x4 you’re going to have the same off stuff like a Volcano Cannon only shooting 5 feet. 

[Sete]

Resin for niche units? What qualifies as a niche unit? 

 

 

 

[Redcomet]

8 minutes ago, Sete said:

Resin for niche units? What qualifies as a niche unit? 

 

 

 

Primarchs. Legion specific units. Tank variants.

[DuskRaider]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

The models are standing on a tile like the ZM tiles. 

Ahh, I didn’t even think of that. Very interesting. I still hope FW makes RoB tiles that mate with the AT ones, though. I need to get some use out of those. 

[Scribe]

Good to see AT will continue to be supported (for now). I just wish they would get the stock redone so I can you know...buy stuff.

 

EDIT: Warlord's are not even listed on the website now for Canada. It was no less than an hour ago so it seems they are updating things.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Scribe

[Warmaster1988]

[1ncarnadine]

58 minutes ago, Sete said:

Resin for niche units? What qualifies as a niche unit?

 

I would assume things like Legion-specific units, Primarchs, Ordinatus-minoris/majoris, uncommon tank variants like the Damocles HQ Rhino, etc

[Matrindur]

13 minutes ago, LetsYouDown said:

 

I would assume things like Legion-specific units, Primarchs, Ordinatus-minoris/majoris, uncommon tank variants like the Damocles HQ Rhino, etc

Also for tank variants anything that cant be build by just changing a single bit. For example the Sicaran in the box can build the normal and plasma variants with either a second kit or more sprues in the full kit with the parts for the Punisher and Arcus while the Venetor will probably be resin as it would need a different body instead of just a different turret

Edited July 7, 2023 by Matrindur

[SkimaskMohawk]

49 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Again, not relevant because GW is designing the game and recommending board sizes on THEIR PRODUCT not something you can do on your own. So while you can make a 6x4 board with printing, it doesn’t [redacted] matter, because the game isn’t designed for it. It’s a mass battles game. Artillery and Marco weapon ranges will be set based on what they envision is the best size board, and if that is 4x4 you’re going to have the same off stuff like a Volcano Cannon only shooting 5 feet. 

 

Wait, are you trying to say GW won't make it a huge board out of fear of terrain costs being prohibitively high for the customers?

 

Buying only GW terrain, how much would it cost to replicate their tournament layouts for 40k? Oh, looks like you can't, since they don't actually sell any ruins 4" and higher any more. But let's say it's meant to be the not available manufactorum ruins; it's 8 pieces at over 4" of height, for £240 if you split each box into two,  plus another box or two of imperialis ruins for another £60. That's £300 total; in my country it morphs into $678 after tax. 

 

I don't think they care about pricing people out of their hobby with either their miniatures or the terrain necessary for the game. 

 

 

[Warmaster1988]

[deleted]

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Warmaster1988

[Marshal Rohr]

57 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Wait, are you trying to say GW won't make it a huge board out of fear of terrain costs being prohibitively high for the customers?

 

Buying only GW terrain, how much would it cost to replicate their tournament layouts for 40k? Oh, looks like you can't, since they don't actually sell any ruins 4" and higher any more. But let's say it's meant to be the not available manufactorum ruins; it's 8 pieces at over 4" of height, for £240 if you split each box into two,  plus another box or two of imperialis ruins for another £60. That's £300 total; in my country it morphs into $678 after tax. 

 

I don't think they care about pricing people out of their hobby with either their miniatures or the terrain necessary for the game. 

 

 

40K is a different game by different people. SG product prices and development are determined by the SG manager, Andy. So you can be mad at GW for being stupid about tournament terrain, but you can’t be mad at Andy because he doesn’t give a [redacted] about competitive play or constantly updating FAQs

[Raziel-TX]

I came for the 8mm beakies…now I’m staying for the drama. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

9 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

40K is a different game by different people. SG product prices and development are determined by the SG manager, Andy. So you can be mad at GW for being stupid about tournament terrain, but you can’t be mad at Andy because he doesn’t give a [redacted] about competitive play or constantly updating FAQs

 

Then let me check what Andy wants in the terrain department for 30k, the most recent offering by specialist games. Let's see, between a quarter and a third of the board should be taken up by terrain; 5-6 pieces of 12" x 12" and then 3-6 of 6" x 6". Also to make sure to have some solid LoS blocking in there.

 

The cheapest offering while trying to get close to those measurements is 5x magnavents for £250 and then 3x imperialis ruins for £90. So it's more than the 40k tournament set up. The ruins that'd work the best and are unavailable would cost even more.

 

Both 30k&40k have recommended terrain amounts; if the rules designers intend for people to buy only official GW terrain, fear of pricing out customers isn't a consideration. And if the rules designers intend for people to only use official terrain, maybe they'd have an actual selection available to buy.

[Beaky Brigade]

4 minutes ago, Raziel-TX said:

I came for the 8mm beakies…now I’m staying for the drama. 

 

I hope we can all stay kind to each other and remember the enjoyable aspects of the hobby, as lot of the discussions at the moment seem to be down to the information vacuum around the game and they will likely be obsolete in a few months anyway when people get their hands on the minis and rules :)

 

[Marshal Rohr]

52 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Then let me check what Andy wants in the terrain department for 30k, the most recent offering by specialist games. Let's see, between a quarter and a third of the board should be taken up by terrain; 5-6 pieces of 12" x 12" and then 3-6 of 6" x 6". Also to make sure to have some solid LoS blocking in there.

 

The cheapest offering while trying to get close to those measurements is 5x magnavents for £250 and then 3x imperialis ruins for £90. So it's more than the 40k tournament set up. The ruins that'd work the best and are unavailable would cost even more.

 

Both 30k&40k have recommended terrain amounts; if the rules designers intend for people to buy only official GW terrain, fear of pricing out customers isn't a consideration. And if the rules designers intend for people to only use official terrain, maybe they'd have an actual selection available to buy.

You understand that support my theory they will be going for a 4x4 or similar size in metric as the ‘mainline’ game of epic? A quarter of the board is four of the fancy new tiles with four to six boxes of building terrain and a box or two of scatter terrain?

 

also, why are we even on this tangent, this was my theory they might be shy about encouraging people to play on 6x4 because it can create a bare table and that has historically been something they worried about (see Peachy’s comments about WFB being a hill on each side and some trees).  I was just saying it’s something they are probably considering because they are going to be telling people to buy their terrain and not printing terrain. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Captain Idaho]

Looks like they're pulling the plug on AI outside "use your existing units for this niche token game experience" which sucks for those players involved.

 

Maybe they'll release legacy stuff for Xenos and 40K flyers for AI? I understand their upset though.

 

Anyway, yes this:

 

3 hours ago, Warmaster1988 said:

 

Interesting but I'm willing to bet it won't just be variant Marines but specific unit designs. Like the Destroyers are MK4, or Seekers, or both.

 

Still, that'd be something I'd be happy to be wrong about. Big time. Love me my MK4.

[Colman]

7 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Looks like they're pulling the plug on AI outside "use your existing units for this niche token game experience" which sucks for those players involved

Possible, or maybe we’ll get rules for any new fliers or anti-aircraft units associated with HH factions. We shall see.

[Marshal Rohr]

The test will be when the Stormbird is released, since it never came to AI. If it gets AI rules we might see AI come back down the road. It’s not like they’re gonna destroy the Xenos plane molds.