Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[nilsh]

I'm not overly bothered by the minis, they should have made different poses I think but it's a minor deal for me. I would love to have a resin printer but we don't have any space for it besides the living room and I don't want that in there.

[Noserenda]

The real life hack is talking your friends into buying 3d printers and paying the printing costs, all the advantages, none of the downsides :D 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

10 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Well yeah, but that cost can print me several armies and I would still come out ahead, and I can use it for more.

 

The point is that the company that you pay a premium for has lower quality than a one of the cheaper resin printers. I think the one I got for my dad was around 200 dollars. 40 dollars extra of resin and now I’ve got two LI’s with decent to better quality. That’s *cheaper* than what they did for lower quality.

But they're mass producing it by the tens (hundreds?) of thousands? You can't do that with resin printing. If you've already got a resin printer, this isn't the box for you, you're just not their target audience for this set. 

[Redcomet]

16 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Well yeah, but that cost can print me several armies and I would still come out ahead, and I can use it for more.

 

The point is that the company that you pay a premium for has lower quality than a one of the cheaper resin printers. I think the one I got for my dad was around 200 dollars. 40 dollars extra of resin and now I’ve got two LI’s with decent to better quality. That’s *cheaper* than what they did for lower quality.

it is two completely different manufacturing methods. It is like comparing apples and oranges. 
And not everyone has the space for a printer. I don’t have a spare room in my application for a printer and a curing station. I am REALLY fed up with 3d printer bros always having to come out all high and mighty “printer go brrr”.

Good for you. 

[Matcap86]

Also keep in mind all those printers would stand silent if they didn't have derivatives or copies of GW designs to print out. Or GW games to create the pieces for.

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Those of us without printers should be more upset at the poor quality of GWs work than those with them as our options are more limited.

I am, they should have made those minis in 2 parts. They made the slightly bigger Contemptors in multiple, it's both possible and reasonable. 

 

It's not the end of the world of course, I'll just spend less money on them.

After getting boned at order time by living in the Antipodian region my enthusiasm has waned somewhat. And it's amazing what removing FOMO does for mental clarity. 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Pacific81 said:

Looking at these, they are OK but I wonder why GW went with these dynamic poses which accentuates the loss of detail and that effect? Could have used a more subtle 'standing at attention' type sculpt and I don't think would have had this problem.

 

As it stands I would put these below both many of the 3D prints I've seen and Vanguard. Perfectly fine and as has been pointed out unless you 4K eyes with built in zoom function you won't notice on the tabletop, but it's perhaps a bit disappointing that a company the size of GW with millions in turnover can't match what some dude has produced in his garage.

Are these GW minis rather than prints?

[Evil Eye]

To be real, there's a reason that small-scale minis are often made from pewter. You can get decent results even at small scales without having to worry about undercuts. And with them being single piece miniatures it's not like you'd have to worry about gluing 'em together. I know a lot of modern 40K players seem to be allergic to anything other than plastic but frankly if this is the price we pay to accomodate that sort of hobbyist, they would not be missed.

 

I'll also say another solution might have been to go with 15mm instead; they're not compatible with old Epic anyway, and it'd allow for better looking minis without being too big. 15mm is a popular scale and works really well for mass battles.

15 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

I am REALLY fed up with 3d printer bros always having to come out all high and mighty “printer go brrr”.

We'll stop saying it when GW stops dropping howlers like this. For the prices GW charges this is just unacceptable. "Just carve it out bro!" indeed.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Just now, Evil Eye said:

I'll also say another solution might have been to go with 15mm instead; they're not compatible with old Epic anyway, and it'd allow for better looking minis without being too big. 15mm is a popular scale and works really well for mass battles.

Fine for the infantry perhaps, but then the titans would be a bit too big to be playable. AT was originally designed to have much bigger titans. (in FW resin...!)
You still can see artifacts of that choice in the rules, but you'd have had very little space for manoeuvre at that size in a game. Once they decided the scale for titans, the die was cast. 

[Arkangilos]

50 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

But they're mass producing it by the tens (hundreds?) of thousands? You can't do that with resin printing. If you've already got a resin printer, this isn't the box for you, you're just not their target audience for this set. 

And charging more for lower quality. 
 

I prefer buying from the company. I *used* to be against printing my own GW models. But when GW invalidates your army, and charges a premium price for bad quality, I can’t justify it.

 

If *you* are fine with paying high prices for bad quality that is on you. I’m not going to judge you. I expect you not to get upset when people are upset they are paying premium for low quality. 

[Arkangilos]

54 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

If you've already got a resin printer, this isn't the box for you, you're just not their target audience for this set. 

I wanted this to be the box for me. But lower quality that is more expensive made it not. 
 

To make it clear: it isn’t the quality, it is the *price*.

[Mogger351]

27 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

To be real, there's a reason that small-scale minis are often made from pewter. You can get decent results even at small scales without having to worry about undercuts. And with them being single piece miniatures it's not like you'd have to worry about gluing 'em together. I know a lot of modern 40K players seem to be allergic to anything other than plastic but frankly if this is the price we pay to accomodate that sort of hobbyist, they would not be missed.

 

I'll also say another solution might have been to go with 15mm instead; they're not compatible with old Epic anyway, and it'd allow for better looking minis without being too big. 15mm is a popular scale and works really well for mass battles.

We'll stop saying it when GW stops dropping howlers like this. For the prices GW charges this is just unacceptable. "Just carve it out bro!" indeed.

If they didn't use poses with undercuts people would complain about how in 20 years of development they just make chesthuggers again. Printer broa would be bragging how boring the poses are and they can print more dynamic minis.

 

If they made them multipart, people would be complaining about mandatory tweezers, glue mishaps at that size and general fiddliness for the 100+ marines they then have to assemble. Printer bros would be saying how they don't have those problems because they can just print them out in 1 piece.

 

If they were cheaper, perfect poses and with no undercuts, some people would still complain about the price, the scale, the armour mk or some other inane thing. Printer bros would say its cool but they can still print them cheaper and have more options.

 

It's the internet. People complain and printer bros bang on about printing everything regardless.

[Matcap86]

It's also 5 of the poses being not great. All the others look great imho. Pretending all the models in the starter have the same issues is just dishonest tbh. 

[Arkangilos]

Just now, Mogger351 said:

 

It's the internet. People complain and printer bros bang on about printing everything regardless.

Pretty sure the original complaint wasn’t from a “printer Bro”. It was from someone upset they paid a lot for obviously bad defects. The “white knights” then came out and dismissed the obviously valid criticism and asked why it was a big deal, and then I, an “apparent” “printer bro” answered a question as to why people might be upset, and the “white knights” got upset. 
 

You know an easy solution to this discussion? Stop getting offended if someone is disappointed in the quality. I know it sucks when someone doesn’t like your toys, but if the expensive toys are low quality then it is valid.

[Joe]

Let's try to avoid the snippy back-and-forths if we can.

 

The Solar Auxilia don't seem to suffer from the stretching(?) as badly as the Space Marines, and at that scale + distance it doesn't phase me that much. I do empathise with the people that aren't pleased with the situation however.

[MithrilForge]

My only solution for the wonky T1000 model is to put it at the back of your units base and make it the base that goes out front every time all the time so it’s the first casualty … you may even learn to love that base cause it might save your really nice NMM painted command squad piece … 

[Noserenda]

Yarr, having got back to where i can watch some videos with pictures, whilst the marine infantry is pretty disappointing, the SA stuff is alright, and i already use their rules for my household infantry in 32mm, might well pick up some cheap to score for my knights.

I can always print off some better marine infantry, (or more precisely again have someone else do it, its a social hobby kids) when they get around to releasing the rest of the rules for the army down the line.

Its perfectly possible to be disappointed in a range you want to succeed, or hold a company you like to a bare minimum of standards you know ;) Nuance, its fairly common IRL.

[Pacific81]

7 minutes ago, Mumeishi said:

My only solution for the wonky T1000 model is to put it at the back of your units base and make it the base that goes out front every time all the time so it’s the first casualty … you may even learn to love that base cause it might save your really nice NMM painted command squad piece … 

 

That's a nice idea, but the law of wargaming dictates that a barrage will scatter off the wonky minis and land directly on the lovely NMM ones, destroying them first!

[DuskRaider]

Idc if my opponent rolls up with 3D printed units on the board. I will tell them to take a walk if they’re an unpainted lazy mess though. If you want to save money, that’s fine. If you won’t put effort into a good paint job and basing them find someone else to play against. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Tyriks
Do not dodge the swear filter

[Mogger351]

25 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Pretty sure the original complaint wasn’t from a “printer Bro”. It was from someone upset they paid a lot for obviously bad defects. The “white knights” then came out and dismissed the obviously valid criticism and asked why it was a big deal, and then I, an “apparent” “printer bro” answered a question as to why people might be upset, and the “white knights” got upset. 
 

You know an easy solution to this discussion? Stop getting offended if someone is disappointed in the quality. I know it sucks when someone doesn’t like your toys, but if the expensive toys are low quality then it is valid.

 

First of all, stop being angry that someone dislikes your toy (3d printer).

 

Secondly you "printer bro'd" your way in by shoving an obligatory "look how little it cost me to print my own which are clearly superior" response.

 

Thirdly, people don't have to like the plastics, I don't care. I find it amusing that some people want artist level lifelike with perfect casting and proportions on something smaller than 1cm and that you will have hundreds of in a game or on display assumingly. But that's simply my opinion and they should be no more offended by me than they are by said undercuts on the plastic.

 

finally that in no way makes me a "white knight" or anyone else who understands the choices and limitations of the minis and finds them acceptable, who then explains why that might be the case.

 

But happy to leave it there.

[Arkangilos]

7 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

First of all, stop being angry that someone dislikes your toy (3d printer).

I’m not angry. 
 

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Secondly you "printer bro'd" your way in by shoving an obligatory "look how little it cost me to print my own which are clearly superior" response.

No I didn’t. You started off laughing at someone that didn’t like the sculpts and dismissed his reasons. Then you asked a series of questions. The answer I gave was a simple truth, I can get higher quality for much cheaper. So you asked, I answered. I even said later on that I didn’t even like printing GW stuff and preferred buying from them.

 

10 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Thirdly, people don't have to like the plastics, I don't care. I find it amusing that some people want artist level lifelike with perfect casting and proportions on something smaller than 1cm and that you will have hundreds of in a game or on display assumingly. But that's simply my opinion and they should be no more offended by me than they are by said undercuts on the plastic.

Then why did you 1) laugh at someone that complained, and 2) dismiss the main complaint? (Cost). Everyone’s reply was that GW boasts premium quality and charges premium prices.

 

11 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

finally that in no way makes me a "white knight" or anyone else who understands the choices and limitations of the minis and finds them acceptable, who then explains why that might be the case.

Because you were laughing and ridiculing criticism, you and several others missed the mark by missing the criticism. You were so caught up in saying why they were wrong you missed why they were right, and your persistence in defending bad behavior in the way you and others did it are indicative of White Knighting. 
 

Look man, if you can take responses and being called something, don’t dish it out. You were the first to call names, so don’t get offended when people dish it back out. You don’t want to be called a white knight? Don’t strawman, don’t go off about printer bros, and don’t laugh at people not liking things.

[Black Cohort]

I think it is reasonable to expect that premium price = premium product.  Ultimately if GW wants to sell less than premium product for premium price they will sell less product in the long run.  Unfortunately publicly traded companies now rarely consider the business implications of their choices more than 12 months out.

 

Low quality minis will certainly reduce the amount I buy over time.

[Captain Idaho]

That'll do guys. We don't need to fall out over this and then a mod needs to go through removing posts and calls in an orbital bombardment. 

 

Let's just accept some of us are concerned with some small parts of infantry and have raised that issue, some of us use 3D printers, then move on.

 

Oh and accept Ultramarines are going to rock in Legions Imperialis. And look the best. (I think I lost the crowd...)

[Arkangilos]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

That'll do guys. We don't need to fall out over this and then a mod needs to go through removing posts and calls in an orbital bombardment. 

 

Let's just accept some of us are concerned with some small parts of infantry and have raised that issue, some of us use 3D printers, then move on.

 

Oh and accept Ultramarines are going to rock in Legions Imperialis. And look the best. (I think I lost the crowd...)

You had me until the end. :p

[twopounder]

There is middle ground here. I buy what I'm interested in, I 3d print alternatives for what doesn't. I spice up the models with custom bits and enjoy my hobby the way I want to. Nothing wrong with others doing the same. I picked up the LI box set and wanted the large knight box they advertised (but apparently haven't released yet) and already had AT and AI stuff on the shelf. The troops are pretty boring though, so I printed plenty of DA troops that I can use with the vanilla. I've even been able to print stuff that's not in the game yet so I could even house rule it in if someone was interested in testing possible unit lists (or just wants to see them on the table). Don't worry, have fun.

 

One thing I did notice scouring ebay is the number of sold pre-orders for the starter from various shops. 190+ from a single location, so it might be a bit bigger than originally anticipated. Its $100 cheaper than HH and a number of people already have aircraft or titans to toss in, so it has a chance of seeing more play than any of those sets on their own would have. Also, the rules aren't terrible. I think I would have changed some stuff, just because things just die so fast, even with alternating activation, but I'm digging the formation and army building concept.

 

EDIT: Yikes, not only is it sold out on GW webstore now, scalpers are pushing it for $225 with 82 of those sold. Some of the boxes are going for 10% over asking as well with boxes sold.

Feels like there may actually be a reasonable mount of interest in the game afterall.

Edited November 19, 2023 by twopounder