Alleged codex leaks

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

[Paladin777]

I saw that this morning. 
 

OoM being nerfed that dramatically would be... interesting. Likely Problematic too, as marines aren't exactly dominating the meta, and that was with Desolation Squads being OP! GW is gonna need to throw Marines a serious bone to make up for it!
 

I'm really looking forward to being able to use my firstborn characters with 'primaris' units though! A couple arm-swaps would be a small price to pay!

Edited September 16, 2023 by Paladin777

[Forté]

Main thing though...

 

When?

 

Especially when all the Index cards will be redundant and the app content locked until people get their Codex book.

 

Dumb way to run it, personally. Should just give the rules and stats for free to make sure players all have access to the same information. Will reduce rule conflicts and possibly sell more miniatures as people can look up all armies and get tempted.

 

Plus, people will still want books full of fluff and art. Black Library wouldn't exist if they didn't.

 

I can understand OoM getting a nerf, but they could've done that in the balance doc. But that nerf isn't 100% confirmed, by the sound of it.

[TheNicronomicon]

Stormlance looks like a fun list for Space Wolves—Skyclaws and Thunderwolf Cavalry and transports. Could be fun to drop pod a Justiciar or Ragnar and Bladeguard behind enemy lines T1, too. That damage-soaking strat with TWC…tasty

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The divergent chapters aren't going to be in this codex though so I doubt they'll get access to these Detachments. Wolves, etc will probably have to keep using the indices until their codices drop.

[Blindhamster]

7 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

The divergent chapters aren't going to be in this codex though so I doubt they'll get access to these Detachments. Wolves, etc will probably have to keep using the indices until their codices drop.

Divergent chapters are still going to be supplements I thought, if not it could be interesting for what that ends up meaning 

[Sir Clausel]

10 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Divergent chapters are still going to be supplements I thought, if not it could be interesting for what that ends up meaning 

Pretty sure when they showed off the coming codexes there was a picture with a Dark Angels Codex. Not supplement 

[TheNicronomicon]

6 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Divergent chapters are still going to be supplements I thought, if not it could be interesting for what that ends up meaning 

Yeah basing my guess off Gladius being wide-open and the divergent chapters getting rules later in the cycle that SW/DA/BA/etc. would be able to use the base SM detachments. Seems their approach so far has been that Space Wolves (for example) are Space Marines First. I just don’t see the point in jumping to any conclusions too early. We haven’t seen the codex, let alone any official previews, yet. And the DA codex is probably the first real chance we’ll get to see how they handle the divergent chapters. 
(According to the video, there are no restrictions on units in any of these detachments. Makes me wonder if Chapter-specific units might get restricted to using their Chapter’s detachments. But we’ll have to wait for the DA codex to get any real clues.)

[Forté]

Looks more like full codex

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

The divergent chapters aren't going to be in this codex though so I doubt they'll get access to these Detachments. Wolves, etc will probably have to keep using the indices until their codices drop.

…everyone gets access to the main codex’s detachments…

1 hour ago, Forté said:

Looks more like full codex

 

That has no bearing one detachment availability.

[Subtleknife]

So divergent chapters can use the base codex and their own. They get access to all their new units too. Where are the drawbacks. Seems like half the first founding chapters are being held back and crammed together. The approach seems bad if that is the case. Everyone should either be in the same book or have codices. Fair treatment for all.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Subtleknife

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just now, Subtleknife said:

Ao divergent chapters can use the base codex and their own. They get access to all their new units too. Where are the drawbacks. Seems like half the first founding chapters are being held back and crammed together. The approach seems bad if that is the case.

That’s been the case for most of the hobby’s existence…

is it bad, or simply realistic?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

22 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

…everyone gets access to the main codex’s detachments…

 

Not if they have their own codex.  The divergent chapters ARE getting their own books.  They're on the road map.  If they're supplements to the codex, then yes they'll likely get the base codex Detachments and any Detachments in their own books.  However, the road map calls them out as codices, not codex supplements, so my assertion -- that the divergent chapters will not have access to C:SM Detachments-- is based on that evidence.

 

Now, I'm willing to concede that the divergent indices may shift from drawing from Index Space Marines to Codex Space Marines when the latter is released until such time as the individual divergent codices are released. It streamlines GW's processes as it's one fewer document they need to errata.

[Subtleknife]

8 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

That’s been the case for most of the hobby’s existence…

is it bad, or simply realistic?

 

Not really for quite a few editions certain units could only be used by "normal" chapters. Ie Dark Angles used to not be  able to use vanguard vets etc.

 

Personally I think not having drawbacks is bad but that is my opinion.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Subtleknife

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

 

Not if they have their own codex.  The divergent chapters ARE getting their own books.  They're on the road map.  If they're supplements to the codex, then yes they'll likely get the base codex Detachments and any Detachments in their own books.  However, the road map calls them out as codices, not codex supplements, so my assertion -- that the divergent chapters will not have access to C:SM Detachments-- is based on that evidence.

 

Now, I'm willing to concede that the divergent indices may shift from drawing from Index Space Marines to Codex Space Marines when the latter is released until such time as the individual divergent codices are released. It streamlines GW's processes as it's one fewer document they need to errata.

Where has GW said that?

 

there’s no reason to believe that when divergent chapters get their own indexes(codexes) with their own detachments, and still get access to gladius. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

 

Not really for quite a few editions certain units could only be used by "normal" chapters. Ie Dark Angles used to not be  able to use vanguard vets etc.

 

Personally I think not having drawbacks is bad but that is my opinion.

I was out from 6th-early 8th

2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 9th, and 10th divergent chapters had access to all normal marine units and their special units.

 

so if you want to call 3 editions ‘quite a few’ that’s fine, but I don’t think most people would consider that quite a few.

 

Edit?

did they even lose access to to some normal units in all of those editions I was gone?

Edited September 16, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Lord_Ikka]

2 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

 

Not if they have their own codex.  The divergent chapters ARE getting their own books.  They're on the road map.  If they're supplements to the codex, then yes they'll likely get the base codex Detachments and any Detachments in their own books.  However, the road map calls them out as codices, not codex supplements, so my assertion -- that the divergent chapters will not have access to C:SM Detachments-- is based on that evidence.

 

Now, I'm willing to concede that the divergent indices may shift from drawing from Index Space Marines to Codex Space Marines when the latter is released until such time as the individual divergent codices are released. It streamlines GW's processes as it's one fewer document they need to errata.

We'll have to see- I personally doubt that non-Codex chapters will entirely lose out on the codex detachments. My thought is that rather than the 6 detachments that SM get, the BA/DA/SW will get 1-3 unique detachments and then also access to select SM detachments. So DA might get a Deathwing, Ravenwing, and Other detachment, while retaining access to the SM Gladius and a couple of others that don't overlap- so no 1st Company or Stormlance detachments, but maybe yes to the Anvil Siege or Ironstorm detachments. Seems like that would be a better way to give the non-Codex chapters their own flavor but still give them options. 

[Medjugorje]

GW already stated that all chapters can use the Codex Detachments and their own. And GW already confirmed that BT BA DA SW and DW get their own CODEX books.

 

and they confrimed that each codex book which is released comes with model releases.

[Lemondish]

10 hours ago, Forté said:

I can understand OoM getting a nerf

 

I can't. It isn't having much impact on the meta. They're a mid-tier army and nobody seems to be counter-building against it.

 

Its power level is totally fine. Folks just dislike it for a variety of other, more compelling reasons.

 

Nerfing it due to its power won't have any impact except throwing balance out of whack, which would arguably be worse than leaving it as is.

 

I fear Marines will need to become a horde army to compete if the nerfs like this continue.

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

Soooooo, if sniper scouts are going away do you think I can get away with proxying mine as Eliminators? They've got the cloaks and the long rifles...

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch said:

Soooooo, if sniper scouts are going away do you think I can get away with proxying mine as Eliminators? They've got the cloaks and the long rifles...

They'll likely get a Legends sheet.

[Lord_Ikka]

21 minutes ago, Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch said:

Soooooo, if sniper scouts are going away do you think I can get away with proxying mine as Eliminators? They've got the cloaks and the long rifles...

Re-base them and you'll be fine.

[Dracos]

6 hours ago, Medjugorje said:

GW already stated that all chapters can use the Codex Detachments and their own. And GW already confirmed that BT BA DA SW and DW get their own CODEX books.

 

and they confrimed that each codex book which is released comes with model releases.

I’ve always hated ^this^. The Divergent or Big Four getting special abilities and characters without a drawback thus making the other First Foundings the weakling Chapters. ^This^ is the reason you end up with black Blood Angels or “Red” Templars etc that people complain about. The supplements of 8th edition were six glorious months of relevance before that door got slammed shut again. 

[Karhedron]

8 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

there’s no reason to believe that when divergent chapters get their own indexes(codexes) with their own detachments, and still get access to gladius. 

 

At the moment we just don't know. Currently the Marines Index has the following rule.

 

 

Since BAs, DAs and SWs are all ADEPTUS ASTARTES, that means they can use the Index version of Gladius. We will have to see if the wording has changed in the full Codex release.

 

The other possibility is that when the divergent Chapters get their full codices, there will be some wording that they have to use the detachments in that codex. This does give named Chapters a slight edge but I am not convinced it is game-breaking. Sanguinary Guard and Death Company can make use of the Storm Lance detachment rules to get into melee faster but they lose out on the hitting power of the Sons of Sanguinius detachment if they do so. In other words, divergent chapters get a benefit in that they have a slightly wider selection of detachment rules to choose from but not an outright boost in power since detachment rules don't stack. Also it is not like the BAs or SWs are outperforming codex Marines by a significant margin at the moment anyway.

 

[Subtleknife]

15 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I was out from 6th-early 8th

2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 9th, and 10th divergent chapters had access to all normal marine units and their special units.

 

so if you want to call 3 editions ‘quite a few’ that’s fine, but I don’t think most people would consider that quite a few.

 

Edit?

did they even lose access to to some normal units in all of those editions I was gone?

I'm pretty sure even before that they lost access. Around 2010 the dark angels codex did not have entries for sternguard etc. 6th was 2012 wasnt it, it kind of blends into one so could be wrong. Can't remember before that if I'm honest. 

 

My use of the word "few" is accurate to its definition. I think any normal person who is a familiar with the definition would agree. Over a 3rd of the editions had this restriction so it is valid. Look it up and tell me why it isn't otherwise stop nitpicking please.

 

Lastly, there should be restrictions for picking divergent chapters. If there aren't why is there any reason to play the first founding constrained to one book. You get access to more detachment choices and therefor rules, relics and stratagems. 

 

I may have misunderstood, and I'm happy to be corrected, but I am under the impression divergent chapters can use vanilla rules or their codex rules when it releases even if using their special units. That just feels wrong to me. There is literally no draw back. 

 

Basically either all first founding should get a codex or none should and the approach should be similar to the HH which I think worked well. Either way, there should be fair treatment. I don't think that is an unreasonable thing to ask.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Subtleknife