Alleged codex leaks

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I guess what’s needed, is the fans of those chapters to shout out that they want it - it worked for templars, GW has to feel like enough people will buy new models from those chapters to justify it.

 

Even then, it just seems very unlikely it’ll happen, considering the points already stated (even more marines for people to complain about, lack of evidence for GW that they’d even sell, if the other first foundings, why not 2nd and onward too?)

 

it would be an easy win for Gw to do a hounds of normal/dc intercessor unit for each 1st founding (and even some later ones maybe). So that seems a good start to me

The middle portion is the big issue.

other than valrak I’ve never heard of anyone playing or collecting a whole IF army.

I’ve met 1 WS player 

 

even online batrep videos almost never feature a chapter other than UM and the big 4.

 

I rarely go to any chapter sub forum here other than BA, but a short stint of messing with the idea of starting an IF successor showed me that sub was pretty dead.

[Karhedron]

8 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

In regards to OoM we don’t know what the rules for units will be in the new codex so getting bent out of shape over an OoM nerf is a little bit premature 

 

That is true but OOM is the most universal rule in the Codex so weakening it affects everything. I would find it hard to believe that every unit in the army gets its special rules buffed to compensate.

[Marshal Reinhard]

15 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

The only reason BT got a big major update and a return to a full supplement was the vitriol and rage (Zeal) of the BT fanbase.

HEY! I ressemble this remark!

 

*cough* also, community survey *cough*

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

OoM confirmed nerfed, but new rules teased for more wound rerolls via other methods.

[Karhedron]

1 minute ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

OoM confirmed nerfed, but new rules teased for more wound rerolls via other methods.

 

So we lose universal access to RR Wounds on a single target in exchange for situational RRs to Wound against (potentially) multiple targets. We will need to see what those other methods are but this sounds like a reasonable side-grade rather than a straight nerf. One of the problems with OOM has always been that once the target is dead, the main faction bonus switches off until your next Command Phase.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Firestorm assault detachment seems real nice.

advance, charge, shoot, +1S within 12”

and a rule that is +3S on a melee weapon.

gravis captain is built perfectly for this one.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

So we lose universal access to RR Wounds on a single target in exchange for situational RRs to Wound against (potentially) multiple targets. We will need to see what those other methods are but this sounds like a reasonable side-grade rather than a straight nerf. One of the problems with OOM has always been that once the target is dead, the main faction bonus switches off until your next Command Phase.

Along with firestorm assault’s boosts to strength I think full rerolls to wound on a single target would be too OP.

 

a powersword becoming going to S8 and power fist going to S11 is pretty devastating.

[CCE1981]

Not seeing where Firestorm Assault allows Advance and Charge.   Still a possibility for a Stratagem or Enhancement

Not totally convinced by the War-Tempered Artifice, I have mostly removed melee enhancements from my army.  They just don't seem to do enough this edition.

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

12 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Firestorm assault detachment seems real nice.

advance, charge, shoot, +1S within 12”

and a rule that is +3S on a melee weapon.

gravis captain is built perfectly for this one.

 

Unfortunately you don't get Advance + Charge (that comes with the Stormlance detachment). Still, you can Advance + Shoot or Move + Shoot + Charge, all with +1S within 12" which is petty tasty.

 

The boosted Power Fist looks pretty nice. Not quite Captain Smash but definitely packing decent levels of punch.

[CCE1981]

I am however looking forward to Advancing Vindicators up the line with Str 15 Demolisher Canons

 

[Karhedron]

3 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

I am however looking forward to Advancing Vindicators up the line with Str 15 Demolisher Canons

 

Baal Predators and LR Redeemers would be very tasty with those Flamestorm cannons too. Might suit a Dread-heavy force as well. Brutalis and Redemptor boost their main guns to S10 in close range and can marc up the battlefield faster to bring their firepower and melee weapons to bear.

[Doghouse]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere but fits the topic.

 

 

Having just gone to great lengths to source Servitors I'm a little miffed if this is true but happy I can still field a Boxnaught.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, CCE1981 said:

Not seeing where Firestorm Assault allows Advance and Charge.   Still a possibility for a Stratagem or Enhancement

Not totally convinced by the War-Tempered Artifice, I have mostly removed melee enhancements from my army.  They just don't seem to do enough this edition.

 

 

 

Sorry that’s my bad. Meant move advance shoot.

 

[Helias_Tancred]

17 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Probably not, since those of us who already got it, weren’t thrilled about it lol.

 

but maybe the other lineages will just be grateful for something.

In regards to OoM we don’t know what the rules for units will be in the new codex so getting bent out of shape over an OoM nerf is a little bit premature 

 

What they revealed today is sugar coating a turd sandwich.

 

While I appreciate the thematic value of giving the 1st company detachment wound re-rolls of OOM, it's still a full faction-wide nerf of the army's best rule. There was no reason for doing it.

 

I'm sure this was not the only good and thematic stratagem that could have been given to the 1st Company Detachment. If I were lazy, or lacking creativity, it was definitely the easiest one.

 

They suck.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[jaxom]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:30 AM, Dracos said:

I’ve always hated ^this^. The Divergent or Big Four getting special abilities and characters without a drawback thus making the other First Foundings the weakling Chapters. ^This^ is the reason you end up with black Blood Angels or “Red” Templars etc that people complain about. The supplements of 8th edition were six glorious months of relevance before that door got slammed shut again. 

 

Opportunity cost, and role, tend to be the balancing factors. There's not a lot the unique units can do that other units in codex can't. It just becomes an issue of points efficiency for tournament players, not one of a lacking role. Shrug, not something I'm super into, so I'm probably not one to get to invested in the question of "I only play my subfaction" versus wanting to do well in the tournament scene.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 10:19 AM, Lemondish said:

 

Because you like them.

 

Because you prefer their lore.

 

Because you like the paint scheme.

 

If applicable, you like their special characters.

 

Because you recognize this isn't some zero sum game.

 

All are valid reasons to play your preferred chapter, even a first founding one, over the so-called divergent ones.

On 9/17/2023 at 10:44 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

All are valid reasons…unless you’re a try hard sweaty power gamer…

On 9/17/2023 at 10:59 AM, Subtleknife said:

Those are nearly all thematic reasons, I'm talking about rules and competition. I may as well use the dark angel codex and play my Ultras as it gives me more access to rules and strats.

 

If you take deathwing etc you should be constrained to the DA dex. I'm assuming it won't work that way, please correct me if I'm wrong as that would alleviate my concerns somewhat.

 

One cannot guarantee the relative "unit good" from edition to edition (or even within an edition because of balance patchs and points update). If we're "perfect balancing it" where everything is exactly pointed correctly and doesn't have broken rules, then there's nothing that a Codex chapter with unique units can do which a different Codex chapter couldn't do in a similar manner. At that point, it really does come down to liking how a unit looks, or lore, or what-have-you. 

 

20 hours ago, Dracos said:

Of course you choose to misinterpret the crux of that argument. No one wants to take away from the diverse nature of say Blood Angels or Dark Angels but desire an equal level of diversity for Chapters like White Scars and Salamanders.

 

I do. We've already seen it happen once to Blood Angels when Vanguard Veterans were introduced. In my opinion, there's not enough of a difference between Terminators and Deathwing Terminator, or Ravenwing Bikers and Bike Squads to warrant a separate data slate compared to the truly different units like the Deathwing Knight and the Black Knights.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 11:30 AM, Blindhamster said:

except it doesn't really. You may get different units, but those units aren't necessarily better.

similarly, you can't mix and match the benefits of DA detachment with benefits of a codex detachment. So its not more access to strats as when a game starts, everyone has exactly the same number of strats (unlike 8th and 9th).

 

As a blood angels player, its pretty depressing that if I want to play "actual blood angels" I can only do so via one detachemnt and that detachment outright performs worse than the gladius anyway.

 

I'd be a-okay with no one getting special detachments. We could easily have "Last Stand" detachment, "Furious Valor" detachment, "Zealous Pride" detachment, and "Honorable Hunt" detachment. They're such broad archetypes that they could apply to many chapters and I'd argue they have in the lore.

 

There's alot in @Blindhamster's analysis I agree with, and it's a hell of an analysis. I think a lot of it comes down to GW wanting to make Space Marines a coherent faction. The tag line for a lot of GW's Space Marine previews has been "an Adeptus Astartes is an Adeptus Astartes." As such, they all operate effectively the same, regardless of how they organize their Chapter or what special names and equipment they give certain units. I'm convinced only historical inertia is protecting the Dark Angel, Blood Angel, and Space Wolf unique units. I expect any without a massively different kit will be folded into any updated Primaris-scale kits and the eventual Chapter upgrade sprues (goodbye Deathwing Terminators). 

 

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

That is true but OOM is the most universal rule in the Codex so weakening it affects everything. I would find it hard to believe that every unit in the army gets its special rules buffed to compensate.

 

OOM was too many eggs in one basket. You either nuked a unit that mattered or didn't (either because nothing was nuked or you nuked a unit that didn't matter). They've acknowledged that they're spreading the power out and I'm happy with that. I don't think every unit will get buffed to compensate, but we'll have to wait and see the actual changes and if they are enough.

 

Apologies if I missed anyone, but I've been working on this in spurts and haven't refreshed the windo in a few hours.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

37 minutes ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

 

What they revealed today is sugar coating a turd sandwich.

 

While I appreciate the thematic value of giving the 1st company detachment wound re-rolls of OOM, it's still a full faction-wide nerf of the army's best rule. There was no reason for doing it.

 

I'm sure this was not the only good and thematic stratagem that could have been given to the 1st Company Detachment. If I were lazy, or lacking creativity, it was definitely the easiest one.

 

They suck.

And the firestorm assault detachment is an army wide buff to wound, and combining with things like aggressors rerolling hits, while having higher S, is a pretty big deal.

 

go figure some detachments may be a bit stronger than others.

[Subtleknife]

Oh :cuss:, the primaris company champion I've been taking my time painting is now no longer a thing, thanks GW 

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Oh :cuss:, the primaris company champion I've been taking my time painting is now no longer a thing, thanks GW 

GW's decisions are just a merry-go-round of nonsense. Might as well throw darts at a board to work out what's legal in 10th 

[Minsc]

Well my Salamanders are pretty happy with "their" detatchment-rule. 

Best part imo isn't even armywide Assault or +1S within 12" - it's the "did you just ing touch my transport!?"-stratagem. 
Gonna have alot of fun with that...alot. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Iron Father Ferrum
Just let the swear filter do its thing please.

[Blindhamster]

46 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Oh :cuss:, the primaris company champion I've been taking my time painting is now no longer a thing, thanks GW 

It is, it’s just part of the command squad type thing instead

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

57 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

It is, it’s just part of the command squad type thing instead

Assuming the command squad champion doesn’t have a single fixed loadout.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I assume you meant "assuming he does"? 

 

And even if he didn't, the primaris company champion would still work as a command squad one, because among the possibly multiple cc squad ones, is a loadout that's just like the PCC.

[Blindhamster]

59 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I assume you meant "assuming he does"? 

 

And even if he didn't, the primaris company champion would still work as a command squad one, because among the possibly multiple cc squad ones, is a loadout that's just like the PCC.

I was actually talking about the company heroes squad, which has a primaris champion identical to the event one just in a different pose

[Dracos]

So far they seem less tied to the Armor types than I was hoping for

[Helias_Tancred]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

And the firestorm assault detachment is an army wide buff to wound, and combining with things like aggressors rerolling hits, while having higher S, is a pretty big deal.

 

go figure some detachments may be a bit stronger than others.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those detachments are limited in the units that can be included in them right?

 

 

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Assuming the command squad champion doesn’t have a single fixed loadout.

 

I bet he does. ... master crafted power sword, and bolt pistol would be my assumption.