New Codex combos

[Paladin777]

Neat little combo I thought of: an apothecary biologis with a squad of Eradicators and the Forged in Battle enhancement. 

 

How much more potent of a use for that enhancement could you ask for than turning a miss from a melta-gun into an auto-wound?

 

not to mention that the auto-6 on the saving throw is downright nasty on gravis units. 

[Minsc]

25 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

Neat little combo I thought of: an apothecary biologis with a squad of Eradicators and the Forged in Battle enhancement. 

 

How much more potent of a use for that enhancement could you ask for than turning a miss from a melta-gun into an auto-wound?

 

not to mention that the auto-6 on the saving throw is downright nasty on gravis units. 

 

Yeah, Forged in Battle will most likely become the "Fire Drill" of the Firestorm-detachment, i.e. it will be included in more or less every list. 
Turning a failed save into a 6 - after rolls - is just so damn good on its own, and then the trick like this when you have Lethal Hits is the cherry on top.
 

With that said, I don't think putting a Biologis with FiB in Eradicators would be my first pick though, given that they already have full rerolls against their intended targets, so it feels slightly wasteful. Absolutely nothing wrong with it though, especially not if you have no other good place to put it. 

Edit: On the subject of Firestorm Enhancements, how does Adamantine Mantle interact with the Gravis Captain?
Is incoming damage halved and then -1?
Is incoming damage -1 and then halved? 
Does it depend on the active players turn?

If it's halved and then -1, I can suddenly see a use for this Enhancement (which otherwise feels too gimmicky in 10th when characters can't really tank hits.)

Edited October 20, 2023 by Minsc

[Sir Clausel]

52 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Finished tweaking my list now, and I even ended up borrowing this idea of yours as well, so cheers for that. 

- Adrax Agatone 

- Vulkan He'stan

- BG Ancient /w Forged in Battle 

- JP Captain /w Champion of Humanity

- Impulsor /w Shield Dome (IM)

- Impulsor /w Shield Dome (IM)

- 6x Bladeguard Veterans (Adrax + Ancient)

- 4x Company Heroes (Vulkan)
- 10x Vanguard Veterans /w Handflamers (Captain)

- 6x Aggressors /w Flamestorm Gauntlets

- 10x Infernus Marines
- 5x Infernus Marines

- 5x Infernus Marines

- Land Raider Redeemer (BGV + CH)

- Repulsor (IM)
 

1995 pts on the nose and the theme seems evident (Torrent-spamm).
Ironically, I couldn't bring a Lt. instead of the Ancient even if I wanted to - not enough points, hehe. 

Feels like a very cool and thematic list. But it really needs anti tank.

[Sir Clausel]

34 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Edit: On the subject of Firestorm Enhancements, how does Adamantine Mantle interact with the Gravis Captain?

Is incoming damage halved and then -1?
Is incoming damage -1 and then halved? 
Does it depend on the active players turn?

If it's halved and then -1, I can suddenly see a use for this Enhancement (which otherwise feels too gimmicky in 10th when characters can't really tank hits.)

Its halved then -1.

BT have a 1/2 damage enhancement and i dont know if that stacks? If it does its very very powerful combo

[chapter master 454]

Yea, the -1 damage enhancement will go in BOMDAS (or BODMAS, whichever you prefer) order. However all damage cannot go below 1. However since rounding in the game is done going up, this means hitting such a Gravis captain with anything less than damage 5 will end in damage 1. Quite a durable boy now all things considered as a lot of melee weapons are now anywhere in the D2 to D3 range and that includes things like Dreadnought melee which is oddly impotent all things considered.

 

One thing I am finding with a lot of these enhancements is I am not sure how go they are, especially when they only apply to a character that will 10/10 times be targeted last because lol who uses precision? There isn't any option for the character to intercept hits on behalf of his squad, which if it were a salamander themed detachment I feel would be very on tone for them.

Forged in Battle though...this is one I feel they made with a great deal of caution. It feels like it should have power yet, comically if it were for the wound roll it would without question be a BEAST of an enhancement. As it stands, it could let you assure one critical hit but that doesn't mean too much imo. The save however could be a massive pain in the rear to handle and to me seems like the best thing this enhancement does it give you the sandbag strat.

 

Though speaking frankly, a lot of the enhancements feel tame. Yea, Targeting Augury in Ironstorm stands out but only because giving 3 whirlwinds lethal hits is insanely good and I predict (as already said) for it to be changed to targeting one vehicle. Similarly this is why Fire Drill isn't an issue, the unit has to be led and that is primarily how a lot of enhancements that buff are kept in check, they often need to expose themselves while TA has no counter-play other than having something able to run up the field and tackle the whirlwinds down or get somewhere you can shoot the techmarine down.

Like the enhancement for Gravis in Anvilus where the character gets back up...is kind of derp. Why pay for something that only works when the entire unit gets wiped, if a unit of Gravis units just got hosed I don't think the Captain is long for the world anyway and not like one captain will flip an objective.

 

Not like the enhancements don't look good however I feel a lot of them feel...incomplete. Though that being said, one major issue that does plague marines is the complete chaos that is leading units only with specific characters. It helps limit combos to prevent broken issues but one MAJOR issue I keep finding is the fact that I want a captain to lead a unit because the stratagems are needed then my only option is...a garbage ancient? Like the Terminator Captain imo is the worst one, then Gravis follows. Phobos at least lets you redeploy and from my testing, taking 2 incursor squads is downright never a wrong option (the +1 to hit buff is incredibly good) and standard captains can lead any number of incredible threats backed with a lieutenant.

 

Chaplains are currently struggling to get any ground as their abilities are ether now incredibly weak (FNP against mortals) or just can't get to a unit you would want it on (biker chaplains shooting buff) and the last one is just...meaningless because Battle-shock falls off as your turn starts.

Librarians have some serious juice, the standard issue giving a 4++ is nothing to sleep on, Terminator giving sustained hits and the phobos giving lone-op to a squad is massive protection.

Ancients just don't do squat when compared to the other option which is a lieutenant unless you are terminators then he's your only option. Maybe the bladeguard one would work if he had the unique allowance to work alongside a Judiciar which would be nice to do since they do come in the same set of models right now.

 

Techmarines are just cheap as chips and offer niche boosts. The repairs are nice but unless you are a replumptor you are unlikely to repair anything any meangingful amount.

[CCE1981]

An odd one here, but you can attach a Techmarine to a Devastator Squad which would allow the Devastator Squad to then use an Impulsor.

 

Forged in Battle I have on a Lieutenant, attach to Company Heroes, forcing that critical gives me a wound plus two additional hits on a 3 damage weapon.  Also great for surprise Overwatch to get those auto 3 hits.

[Karhedron]

Good catch with FIB. That 6 will do a lot of work on Overwatch and could definitely catch people out.

[CCE1981]

What is really interesting about it is what I am going to try and do with Oath of Moment.  Since my list has a lot of Torrent, I am going to try to use Oath defensively so that my opponent has to rethink where they are loving their forces.

[Paladin777]

There's a lot of uses for FiB. 

 

I ran a biologis with a squad of heavy intercessors in a 1000 point game yesterday and I used FiB on the Heavy Bolter for the LH/SH combo. Far from broken, but It illuminated the potential to me. The free save was absolute gravy, and honestly if the enhancement was that ability only, I still think it would be worth it!

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

An odd one here, but you can attach a Techmarine to a Devastator Squad which would allow the Devastator Squad to then use an Impulsor.

 

Forged in Battle I have on a Lieutenant, attach to Company Heroes, forcing that critical gives me a wound plus two additional hits on a 3 damage weapon.  Also great for surprise Overwatch to get those auto 3 hits.

How are you getting Devastators in the Impulsor?  The Rhino has a one-way exception for Tacticus Characters in non-Primaris units.  Of course they got too cute, and a Phobos Captain attached to Scouts can't ride. 

[Helias_Tancred]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:55 PM, CCE1981 said:

There is a way to move your Hellblasters and have their shooting ‘remain stationary’.  Bring Incursors and an Impulsor, Incusors start in the Impulsor and Scout move 6”.  The Hellblasters can then move up and embark into that Impulsor.  When you fire from the Impulsor, the Impulsor did not move.

 

Speaking of Impulsors how about more shenanigans, go Black Templars!  Instead of Hellblasters, take a Devastator Squad with 4x Multi-Meltas and an attached Techmarine.  That Impulsors now has 10x Multimelta shots whatever you give the sergeant, whatever is on the Impulsors, and a Forge Bolter!  Plus a 5++ Invulnerable!

 

Can devastators be transported by an Impulsor?

 

Edit: NVM, I saw where it can with a techmarine attached to them. 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Metzombie]

11 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

An odd one here, but you can attach a Techmarine to a Devastator Squad which would allow the Devastator Squad to then use an Impulsor.

That does not work. The Impulsor can only transport Tacticus or Phobos Modells. The Techmarine would give the Unit the Tacticus keyword, but would not change the keywords of the Modells.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Metzombie

[Malakithe]

For Firestorm: Repulsor with Sternguard. Move + Advance the Repulsor, pew pew pew. Opponents turn, they shoot at the Repulsor, I use the strat to pop out the SGV to pew pew back then pop back in. My turn, pop SGV out, pew pew pew. Opponents turn, they charge at the BGV and I use the Repulsor ability to shuffle the SGV back in their safety bus....

 

Does all that nonsense actually work like that? lol the reason I say SGV over something else like Aggressors is their weapons are better with assualt, dev wounds, heavy. They if within 12", hence the transport, they would get rapid fire and +1S. And if the transport is being shot at the Aggressors wont have the range to use the strat. 

 

 

[CCE1981]

2 hours ago, Metzombie said:

That does not work. The Impulsor can only transport Tacticus or Phobos Modells. The Techmarine would give the Unit the Tacticus keyword, but would not change the keywords of the Modells.

That’s what I get for relying on the app and working 14 hour days :(. Thanks for the catch!

[Lemondish]

9 hours ago, Malakithe said:

For Firestorm: Repulsor with Sternguard. Move + Advance the Repulsor, pew pew pew. Opponents turn, they shoot at the Repulsor, I use the strat to pop out the SGV to pew pew back then pop back in. My turn, pop SGV out, pew pew pew. Opponents turn, they charge at the BGV and I use the Repulsor ability to shuffle the SGV back in their safety bus....

 

Does all that nonsense actually work like that? lol the reason I say SGV over something else like Aggressors is their weapons are better with assualt, dev wounds, heavy. They if within 12", hence the transport, they would get rapid fire and +1S. And if the transport is being shot at the Aggressors wont have the range to use the strat. 

 

 

 

The only limitation is that you can't disembark and embark in the same phase, but otherwise away you go, so it does seem like you could make it work.

 

I'm wondering if it would be better to use Hellblasters instead, largely because they seem more offensively capable compared to Sternguard these days. If your opponent does find a way to harm them, they'll also have a chance to fire again.

 

I used them in GTF this way to really punk the Oaths target before the nerf, but with +1 Str if in the right position, and +1 Wound if they target the same thing your Thunderstrike hits, then I think it'll be pretty solid even without old Oaths. 

 

Ran them with a Lt. for the Lethal Hits as well.

[Malakithe]

7 hours ago, Lemondish said:

 

The only limitation is that you can't disembark and embark in the same phase, but otherwise away you go, so it does seem like you could make it work.

 

I'm wondering if it would be better to use Hellblasters instead, largely because they seem more offensively capable compared to Sternguard these days. If your opponent does find a way to harm them, they'll also have a chance to fire again.

 

I used them in GTF this way to really punk the Oaths target before the nerf, but with +1 Str if in the right position, and +1 Wound if they target the same thing your Thunderstrike hits, then I think it'll be pretty solid even without old Oaths. 

 

Ran them with a Lt. for the Lethal Hits as well.

Since all that silly disembark/shooting/embark stuff is all out of phase then I guess it would all work which sounds funny when you write it all out like that.

 

I was thinking Hellblasters as well as another option specifically for that silliness. Move the Repulsor up as bait, use strat, pew pew pew, back in. The issues that came up for me at least is a full Hellblaster unit is 50pts more then a full unit of SGV and I just really like the SGV models more lol minor issue there but I want to make SGV work somehow.

[Lemondish]

15 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Since all that silly disembark/shooting/embark stuff is all out of phase...

 

Not quite. They all seem to occur within a phase, it just might not be your own ;)

 

15 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I was thinking Hellblasters as well as another option specifically for that silliness. Move the Repulsor up as bait, use strat, pew pew pew, back in. The issues that came up for me at least is a full Hellblaster unit is 50pts more then a full unit of SGV and I just really like the SGV models more lol minor issue there but I want to make SGV work somehow.

 

Entirely valid reasons! I've been loving my Hellblasters for a long time, so I may have been affected by bias when I suggested them haha

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:12 AM, Malakithe said:

Opponents turn, they shoot at the Repulsor, I use the strat to pop out the SGV to pew pew back then pop back in.

 

17 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Move the Repulsor up as bait, use strat, pew pew pew, back in.

 

How is this happening if they don't get charged? Rapid embarkation isn't allowed on units that disembarked during the same turn. 

[Paladin777]

I'm pretty sure that the Firestorm detachment had a strategem that allows it called Rapid Embarkation, or something like that. 

[Metzombie]

Yes, but Rapid Embarkation can not be used on a unit that disembarked this turn.

[Paladin777]

Ok, fair enough. I didn't have my codex on me.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Paladin777

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Idk if this is on topic enough or not, but it seems like there’s a hard lean towards the firestorm detachment, is the firestorm the big winner in the detachment war so far, or is that me?

[CCE1981]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Idk if this is on topic enough or not, but it seems like there’s a hard lean towards the firestorm detachment, is the firestorm the big winner in the detachment war so far, or is that me?

Firestorm is the easiest to understand and mitigates a lot of Space Marine weaknesses without introducing a big drawback.  Everything benefits in a Firestorm detachment.  All the other detachments take a lot more finessing.  Irondstorm has the issue of keeping up with your tanks and not running them in a huge blob, Vanguard takes a bit to avoid isolating units in your army from other components, Anvilus has the issue of moving forward or staying still to capitalize on your buffs, Gladius our opponents know to kill the Fore Discipline squad, 1st Company just doesn’t have any good synergy.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

24 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Firestorm is the easiest to understand and mitigates a lot of Space Marine weaknesses without introducing a big drawback.  Everything benefits in a Firestorm detachment.  All the other detachments take a lot more finessing.  Irondstorm has the issue of keeping up with your tanks and not running them in a huge blob, Vanguard takes a bit to avoid isolating units in your army from other components, Anvilus has the issue of moving forward or staying still to capitalize on your buffs, Gladius our opponents know to kill the Fore Discipline squad, 1st Company just doesn’t have any good synergy.

I’d argue that firestorm incentivizes putting units that may not necessarily want to be with 12” of an enemy up close.

granted this can be mitigated by just taking super aggressive melee focused units, but I don’t think anvil is that difficult to work around.

[Dracos]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Idk if this is on topic enough or not, but it seems like there’s a hard lean towards the firestorm detachment, is the firestorm the big winner in the detachment war so far, or is that me?

 

That is the look so far. Personally while I like Firestorm on the surface I feel the deeper I dig I find it rewards a style of play that requires transports to get full use out of ... as opposed to Vanguard that seems to have something for everyone but my bias toward an all infantry army might color my perception a bit there. My experience with even medium level amounts of terrain, is that with a Detachment like Vanguard I don't need vehicles which frees me up to spend more points on units. 

 

I feel Firestorm is easier to use and if you like using transports then God yes its the detachment for you. My experience after half dozen games using Gladius though is it has mileage if you are the type of player that can design your game plan around the combat doctrines. As far as the Vanguard, having had a lot of success with Gravis units and the Raven Guard Codex in 8th, I expect (after a bit of practice) for it to have similar results. I just have to let go of my current all-Gravis fetish if I really want it to be competitive.