Full Dark Angel reveal

[Interrogator Stobz]

1 hour ago, Kallas said:

I mean, yeah, things changed in a way that I feel like is bad. Strangely enough, I don't think that was good!

Great discussion Brother, nice to read from others who share the same opinions on the lore changes.

An important point to consider is that you don't need to justify any of it to anyone. Especially when they try to 'prove' your opinions are somehow wrong, or lesser, or "screaming in the dark", or falsely expanding what you said to hating all new stuff.

Their views are fine, but they're not the real thing

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, Kallas said:

I mean, yeah, things changed in a way that I feel like is bad. Strangely enough, I don't think that was good!

We know. You've told us. Ad nauseum.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Reading some of the newer books gives a better perspective of the change to Primaris and how they are basically inductii 2.0 stuff like that made me appreciate them more but GW def needs to poop or get off the pot, trying to cling to parts of the lore that are contradictory when the setting is clearly changing is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Like templars incorporating parts of their old armour... How the hell does that work, do they melt it down? Is it just the honour badges and how the heck are they still wearing their old helmets now that they've grown a whole bloody foot it would be like finding your old bike helmet as a kid and trying to put it on as a grown adult. They are just no longer physically compatible with their old armour so why even try to imply it's somehow still in service.

 

The weapons are another it's like you are telling me this great big huge power sword that's taller than a chaos marine is the same one Azreal has been using this whole time? Ok maybe Azreal is a bad example but Uriel Ventris, High Marshal Helbrecht there's just no way those are the same swords. and even the regular joe power swords if you put those on a heresy marine they'd look like they are doing thier best Guts impression by wielding it and back to Ventris isn't that giant thing supposed to be the same sword Remus Ventanus used? lol 

[Scribe]

1 minute ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Reading some of the newer books gives a better perspective of the change to Primaris and how they are basically inductii 2.0 stuff like that made me appreciate them more but GW def needs to poop or get off the pot, trying to cling to parts of the lore that are contradictory when the setting is clearly changing is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Like templars incorporating parts of their old armour... How the hell does that work, do they melt it down? Is it just the honour badges and how the heck are they still wearing their old helmets now that they've grown a whole bloody foot it would be like finding your old bike helmet as a kid and trying to put it on as a grown adult. They are just no longer physically compatible with their old armour so why even try to imply it's somehow still in service.

 

The weapons are another it's like you are telling me this great big huge power sword that's taller than a chaos marine is the same one Azreal has been using this whole time? Ok maybe Azreal is a bad example but Uriel Ventris, High Marshal Helbrecht there's just no way those are the same swords. and even the regular joe power swords if you put those on a heresy marine they'd look like they are doing thier best Guts impression by wielding it and back to Ventris isn't that giant thing supposed to be the same sword Remus Ventanus used? lol 

 

I mean this is a great point, and is why inside a few editions it just wont even be referenced. Its going to be like the Ynnari stuff hopefully. Left to the shadows, unmentioned, and hopefully forgotten as the mistake it is.

 

"They are bigger now, and moving on..."

[Redcomet]

Always nice that every single new marine release brings out the Primaris Sux and I Will Complain Every Time crowd, like cats to cream

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

We know. You've told us. Ad nauseum.

29 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Always nice that every single new marine release brings out the Primaris Sux and I Will Complain Every Time crowd, like cats to cream

And people keep saying they like stuff. Apparently that's good for you - positive stuff only, not allowed to dislike things.

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 minutes ago, Kallas said:

And people keep saying they like stuff. Apparently that's good for you - positive stuff only, not allowed to dislike things.

No, you're free to do whatever. As am I.

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, Doghouse said:

Not a fan of the terrible name Risen though as it makes them sound like a loaf of bread. 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I saw them referred to as "Redeemed" in a couple of places which sounded a much better name but I realise that "Risen" is the obvious counterpoint to "Fallen". I feel the same about "Desolation" Marines, they should be Desolators to go with the other "ors" units.

 

But that is just semantics. The models look fantastic and as long as the rules/points are at least somewhat good, I am sure they will get a lot of use.

[roryokane]

40 minutes ago, Kallas said:

And people keep saying they like stuff. Apparently that's good for you - positive stuff only, not allowed to dislike things.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who basically refuses to acknowledge the existence of Primaris marines in my headcanon. I nearly wept when they discontinued the firstborn Sternguard kit.
Basically you've summed up my feelings on the matter. I tend to just buy character models, do helmet and backpack and weapon swaps and just pretend they're really cool sets of Mk VIII armour. :P
These models are cool, and not TOO primaris-y, but I was hoping for rescaled Risen complete with a medley of old armour marks instead, perhaps with a FEW bits of newer kit thrown in (Godwyn pattern bolters for example).

[MithrilForge]

They’re just Plastic models for grown up kids… we need to build a bridge and stop being grumpy old men/women about this, yes you have an opinion and yes we respect it , but it’s getting like some grumpy old boomer saying “I don’t like new phones…I like my old one but the damn Phone company won’t let me use it with the new network…. “

Dark Angels-  yeah, I loved the old fluff and models as well  but new models for Dark Angels are cool too !! 
 

M 

[Wispy]

13 minutes ago, Mumeishi said:

They’re just Plastic models for grown up kids… we need to build a bridge and stop being grumpy old men/women about this, yes you have an opinion and yes we respect it , but it’s getting like some grumpy old boomer saying “I don’t like new phones…I like my old one but the damn Phone company won’t let me use it with the new network…. “

Dark Angels-  yeah, I loved the old fluff and models as well  but new models for Dark Angels are cool too !! 
 

M 

They're actually also plastic models for actual kids (12+). For a teensy dose of extra perspective.

[Blindhamster]

My 9 year old is quite partial to them now too

[Scribe]

20 minutes ago, Wispy said:

They're actually also plastic models for actual kids (12+). For a teensy dose of extra perspective.

 

I'd love to see the marketing data on the average age for long-term HH and 40k hobbiy enjoyers. 

 

0 chance it's closer to 12, than 30.

[Marshal Reinhard]

8 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 long-term

you're essentially stacking the deck

[Doghouse]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I saw them referred to as "Redeemed" in a couple of places which sounded a much better name but I realise that "Risen" is the obvious counterpoint to "Fallen". I feel the same about "Desolation" Marines, they should be Desolators to go with the other "ors" units.

 

But that is just semantics. The models look fantastic and as long as the rules/points are at least somewhat good, I am sure they will get a lot of use.

 

I shall keep my answer short as I fear this thread's word count will soon challenge the unabridged version of The End and the Death parts one to three and I do not wish to offend the renown scribe Dan Abnett in doing so.

 

I'd not heard the term but think I prefer Redeemed as it's descriptive in a more meaningful way I think.

 

The terminator bare heads are growing on me the more I look at them. Obviously an absurd concept to be piloting a walking tank with your bare face stuck out the front but that is the true nature of 40k at the end of the day. I for one accept and embrace it willingly even though it may challenge the things I accept to be truths for it is a world of outlandishly over the top characters performing over the top outlandish characterful feats observed and retold by the unreliable narrator.

 

 

[Scribe]

27 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

you're essentially stacking the deck

 

While we all started somewhere, I'm comfortable putting money on it not being 12 year olds carrying the bottom line. You?

[Rain]

I think this discussion has gone long past the “agree to disagree” stage at this point.  Both sides have said our piece, and past that it’s just bad blood and snide remarks.

 

Ultimately all you can do is vote with your wallet. Buy the models you like, convert/proxy the ones you don’t, and headcanon the lore as needed. 
 

Or just play Dark Eldar and be protected from updates 

[Marshal Reinhard]

12 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

While we all started somewhere, I'm comfortable putting money on it not being 12 year olds carrying the bottom line. You?

Dude, I share your sentiment that the hobbyist demographic likely skews towards the older. But when you qualify the the conparison by adding "long term", you're doing the argument a genuine disservice.

 

Most 12 year olds haven't been a long term anything. Of course you’d win that argument. The comparison becomes meaningless because you've worded it so you can’t lose. You didn't need to stack the deck that way.

[Blindhamster]

22 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

While we all started somewhere, I'm comfortable putting money on it not being 12 year olds carrying the bottom line. You?

Long term players aren’t actually GW target audience generally, it’s always been about getting kids hooked and the target audience is indeed people in their 30s-40s, they just happen to be parents buying for their kids. Just saying that as an ex staffer who knows who they were always told to focus on.

 

hell, now it’s me buying for my kids and I’ve for sure spent more on his stuff than mine lately - because I already have a stupidly large army

[Rain]

It would be genuinely interesting to see how much revenue GW gets from various age ranges, and to even break that down by which demos spend the most on models vs paints and supplies, etc. but it’s not data that’s available.

 

That said, WH is not an inexpensive hobby, and adults have more disposable income. Also, an adult hobbyist buying 40k for his kid to get said kid into the hobby so as to have quality time with their kid is kind of a different beast from a kid that gets into 40k organically. A 40k player’s kid is like a vegetarian cat. Even if the kid ends up into it, it wasn’t really their decision.

 

 

[Lord_Ikka]

=]= And we're done. This topic has reached its end. Any further discussion about the new DA models can be had in the DA sub-forum when they arrive. =][=

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Lord_Ikka