Full Dark Angel reveal

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The companions look great, and I’m already trying to figure out how to kitbash them.

[Kallas]

10 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Another good idea would be a kill team of recently rearmed and resupplied Risen that were Renegade Astartes not too long ago. Things like aged armour, repaired gear, freshly applied Imperial symbols and stencils. Taking inspiration from Loyalist Blackshield warbands.

This is my main gripe with the Companions: they'll all in squeaky clean Mk X. Regardless of whether people like Mk X or not, that these ex-Fallen are in shiny new armour is missing that history - Dark Angels have always been a storied Chapter/Legion, they're renowned for having the most suits of Terminator armour, for having lots of otherwise lost weaponry that is unreplicable; but the Companions just have (relatively) plain Mk X (with some Bladeguard parts and some insignia, of course), aside from a single Mk VII helmet.

 

The Terminator/general upgrades look good, Belial looks great (though a helmeted option would be better); the sword design looks good. Companions feel relatively plain, IMO.

[Wispy]

Belial being a big boy makes me excited for Arjac.

[Brother Carpenter]

2 hours ago, Kallas said:

This is my main gripe with the Companions: they'll all in squeaky clean Mk X. Regardless of whether people like Mk X or not, that these ex-Fallen are in shiny new armour is missing that history - Dark Angels have always been a storied Chapter/Legion, they're renowned for having the most suits of Terminator armour, for having lots of otherwise lost weaponry that is unreplicable; but the Companions just have (relatively) plain Mk X (with some Bladeguard parts and some insignia, of course), aside from a single Mk VII helmet.

 

The Terminator/general upgrades look good, Belial looks great (though a helmeted option would be better); the sword design looks good. Companions feel relatively plain, IMO.

Maybe crossing the rubicon is part of their proces of repentia. Shedding your old heresy armour and emerging like a newborn primaris dark angel.

That would probably fit a bit better lorewise

[Marshal Reinhard]

honestly don't see the problem. If they're truly redeemed fallen, and the Lion's have said these guys are ok, then I don't find it a stretch they'd be allowed maintenance/armor upgrades

[Nephaston]

2 hours ago, Kallas said:

This is my main gripe with the Companions: they'll all in squeaky clean Mk X. Regardless of whether people like Mk X or not, that these ex-Fallen are in shiny new armour is missing that history - Dark Angels have always been a storied Chapter/Legion, they're renowned for having the most suits of Terminator armour, for having lots of otherwise lost weaponry that is unreplicable; but the Companions just have (relatively) plain Mk X (with some Bladeguard parts and some insignia, of course), aside from a single Mk VII helmet.

 

The Terminator/general upgrades look good, Belial looks great (though a helmeted option would be better); the sword design looks good. Companions feel relatively plain, IMO.

Arguably the Fallen Angels being turned Risen Angels lends itself really well for that whole rebirth schtick that one can apply to primaris and them there rubicons they keep crossing.

Also 30k Deathwing Companions are available and beyond some equipment differences should suit fine as an alternative.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Once they and the dex drops we'll have a better idea of their fluff, until then there's plenty of headcanon ways to make them suit anyone who's interested. 

Am I right in remembering the dex is due around March?

[Nephaston]

4 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Am I right in remembering the dex is due around March?

"Spring 2024" so indeed March at the earliest. Will be curious to see if they put a gap between the release of the deathwing assault box, which contains the codex supllement, and the standalone release of it.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Thanks Brother.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if there's a delay. (I live in the Antipodes, so we'll always have a delay tbh)

Also, that Supp in the DW box has different art to the advertised one, donwe know if it's 'Speshul' yet?

[OttoVonAwesome]

59 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Arguably the Fallen Angels being turned Risen Angels lends itself really well for that whole rebirth schtick that one can apply to primaris and them there rubicons they keep crossing.

Also 30k Deathwing Companions are available and beyond some equipment differences should suit fine as an alternative.

Yeah but you also gotta wonder with all the secrecy behind them given thier origin... When the hell did they have the time to cross the rubicon and if it's so important the rest of the chapter including members of the deathwing don't know who they are then who the hell actually ran that process that I'm assuming involves multiple apothecaries and techmarines and chapter serfs and servitors and wouldn't it just be a hell of alot easier if they didn't? Assuming you'd want to keep thier origins a secret cuase it won't bloody stay that way very long especially given it's the most secretive and therefore the most paranoid chapter there is you'd think they'd figure out right away there's a bunch of guys crossing the rubicon that aren't on the roster who look alot like the guys in the mugshots they have been hunting for 10k years. 

 

It's kinda silly right. That they are mysterious instead of just openly repentant fallen. There's alot of holes there seemingly designed to maintain the status quo. Even if the authority of the Lion is what's keeping all those serfs and apothecaries and techmarines and geezus interrogator chaplains silent cuase they fit into the circle of lies too that's only going to breed alot of mistrust and seems pretty unnecessary. Like Lionel Jhonson doesn't even trust his chapter and if the deathwing knows who they are then why continue to gaslight the rest of the chapter about it. The Primarch has returned the fallen are being redeemed and the shame of the chapter was never shared by the Primarch and his return should completely change thier identity since they don't need to hide thier past from the rest of imperium anymore especially beacuase the highlords and the inquisition are no longer the authority and Guilliman certainly wouldn't shun the Lion for the sins of his sons committed in the past especially given the task of keeping the imperium together in the present despite thier past disagreements and even if he did thier father is returned and since when did they give a crap about the imperial authority anyway. The time for secrets has come and gone.

 

Also these guys came with the Lion and fought Angron in full view of the chapter right alongside them so the cat was really out of the bag from the get go.

Edited December 27, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[Matrindur]

31 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

"Spring 2024" so indeed March at the earliest. Will be curious to see if they put a gap between the release of the deathwing assault box, which contains the codex supllement, and the standalone release of it.

There is always a 1-2 month delay between the army boxes and the full release

[ZeroWolf]

13 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

There is always a 1-2 month delay between the army boxes and the full release

Correct and I think rumours said this was out in Feb (can't remember if early or late feb) then we may get the DA Codex in April...just in time for Easter and another 'Risen!'

[Matrindur]

8 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Correct and I think rumours said this was out in Feb (can't remember if early or late feb) then we may get the DA Codex in April...just in time for Easter and another 'Risen!'

Rumours are preorder late January, release early February

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

Arguably the Fallen Angels being turned Risen Angels lends itself really well for that whole rebirth schtick that one can apply to primaris and them there rubicons they keep crossing.

 

1 hour ago, Brother Carpenter said:

Maybe crossing the rubicon is part of their proces of repentia. Shedding your old heresy armour and emerging like a newborn primaris dark angel.

That would probably fit a bit better lorewise

 

Still feels odd to just discard 10,000 years worth of history because Daddy Lion said they're cool. Like, the Chapter's and it's successors' identities revolved around hunting down and finding these individuals, but now it's just "Ope, all good now."

 

It seems to be cheap, just sanitising the range to make everything new, literally just discarding the old stuff for no particular reason and apparently without much rhyme. Maybe the Codex will explain things, but I won't hold my breath for much beyond "Lion said it's cool, so it's cool."

 

I'm trying to not stray into Firstborn vs Primaris here, I'm trying to stay on point - the arms and armour of Astartes have been sacred and we'll maintained for literally thousands of years; the armour of the Fallen could feasibly be considered relics (at least, those who may actually date back to the schism, or have salvaged their armour from others who were there). That this kind of stuff (not limited to Dark Angels, but also notably here) is just being discarded feels wrong, especially for a Chapter that has a lot of identity around have old grudges, ancient weaponry and a strong connection to the past (albeit shameful).

 

So yeah. Maybe the Codex will have some answers, but it still feels off, in my opinion.

 

Edit: To expand a little as it kind of struck me a bit more clearly after I hit save: it's about lineage. Astartes have always had a major thread about their gene heritage, from brother to brother to Primarch to Emperor. Some of this was always expressed in their arms and armour, that each suit was a venerated piece of wargear, storied and worn by brothers long past but remembered by each bearer and passed down that way: removing almost all aspects of this to include a single piece of Mk VII is kind of sad - especially when considering that these Risen are literally a major thread of the Dark Angels right back to the Heresy itself.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Kallas
Meant NOT stray. Damn typos.

[GenerationTerrorist]

Love all of this release. Really hope I manage to get the Deathwing set, but suspect it will all go to the scalpers as usual.

[Marshall Bretton]

Can't it just be that they are redeemed fallen who were brought back by the lion and given the most up to date gear to replace their battered 10000 year old outdated kit? MkX is meant to be the pinnacle of power armour tech, yeah DA have historically had access to ancient and special gear, but if the newest armour is better why bother using the old stuff? Especially when cawl apparently made enough to give every man and his dog 3 sets each.

 

They are using calibanite greatswords which presumably are ancient relic weapons though.

 

I'm really stoked for these guys, the more I look at them the more I want a decent number to escort the lion and to do a full force of risen (which admittedly will just be black armoured regular models). There is just something about the heresy era colours that I prefer to the green

[mecanojavi99]

2 minutes ago, Kallas said:

 

 

Still feels odd to just discard 10,000 years worth of history because Daddy Lion said they're cool. Like, the Chapter's and it's successors' identities revolved around hunting down and finding these individuals, but now it's just "Ope, all good now."

 

It seems to be cheap, just sanitising the range to make everything new, literally just discarding the old stuff for no particular reason and apparently without much rhyme. Maybe the Codex will explain things, but I won't hold my breath for much beyond "Lion said it's cool, so it's cool."

 

I'm trying to bit stray into Firstborn vs Primaris here, I'm trying to stay on point - the arms and armour of Astartes have been sacred and we'll maintained for literally thousands of years; the armour of the Fallen could feasibly be considered relics (at least, those who may actually date back to the schism, or have salvaged their armour from others who were there). That this kind of stuff (not limited to Dark Angels, but also notably here) is just being discarded feels wrong, especially for a Chapter that has a lot of identity around have old grudges, ancient weaponry and a strong connection to the past (albeit shameful).

 

So yeah. Maybe the Codex will have some answers, but it still feels off, in my opinion.

The Lion himself isn't wearing his 30K armour, why would the people that actually fought with him 10k years ago do any different? For the Risen there is nothing sacred about the armour they have been wearing for 10k years, if anything is the contrary, a reminder of their past sins.

 

Would you want to carry around armor that is associated with a group of which you are not part and that is actively trying to kill you? Because not all Fallen have been redeemed, we know that Luther is our there gathering them and I can assure it's not that they are preparing a collective "we are sorry daddy" gift card for the Lion.

[Robbienw]

There is still going to be regular corrupted fallen the Dark Antels need to track and capture - the Asmodai preview article said so.

 

If the Companions are indeed former fallen, they could be Lion loyalists who were stuck on Caliban and were only technically fallen.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Robbienw

[lansalt]

26 minutes ago, Gaius Maximus said:

Can't it just be that they are redeemed fallen who were brought back by the lion and given the most up to date gear to replace their battered 10000 year old outdated kit?

This is probably the case. A primaris marine can wear old Terminator suits and a first born can wear MkX. Over the years the difference in universe becomes irrelevant just like in reality.

[Kastor Krieg]

1 hour ago, Robbienw said:

If the Companions are indeed former fallen, they could be Lion loyalists who were stuck on Caliban and were only technically fallen.

Or loyalists who just got yeeted across time and space.

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Gaius Maximus said:

if the newest armour is better why bother using the old stuff? Especially when cawl apparently made enough to give every man and his dog 3 sets each.

I mean yeah. That's a whole other issue though 

 

1 hour ago, mecanojavi99 said:

The Lion himself isn't wearing his 30K armour, why would the people that actually fought with him 10k years ago do any different? For the Risen there is nothing sacred about the armour they have been wearing for 10k years, if anything is the contrary, a reminder of their past sins.

Because a major theme of 40k is backwards technology, and the veneration of older things of "past glory" kind of stuff - literal links to the past, such as the Fallen's gear (and themselves) is pretty significant when factions will go to great lengths to recover relics; these are direct connections to the past, and they have been "redeemed" by the Lion, so what shame is there? But I guess let's just dump all of the things that make 40k interesting, that sounds about right for the course GW is taking. I've said my piece, I don't intend to drag it out into wider discussions, so I'll leave it alone. Some of the reveals look good to me, some don't. Enjoy them whoever wants to enjoy them.

[FarFromSam]

Cool models.  Get the rules right. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by farfromsam

[SkimaskMohawk]

Imo it's a bit of a shame that the outriders and invaders arent getting an expanded/updated kit to go with DA. Maybe they're being held for White Scars or something, but it sucks that the now only options for vanilla bikes or so lack lustre and bland. In both rules and models. People were hyped for them back at the dawn of 9th and we're super excited for their full codex rules and full kit. And then they never got anything else...

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Yeah but you also gotta wonder with all the secrecy behind them given thier origin... When the hell did they have the time to cross the rubicon and if it's so important the rest of the chapter including members of the deathwing don't know who they are then who the hell actually ran that process that I'm assuming involves multiple apothecaries and techmarines and chapter serfs and servitors and wouldn't it just be a hell of alot easier if they didn't? Assuming you'd want to keep thier origins a secret cuase it won't bloody stay that way very long especially given it's the most secretive and therefore the most paranoid chapter there is you'd think they'd figure out right away there's a bunch of guys crossing the rubicon that aren't on the roster who look alot like the guys in the mugshots they have been hunting for 10k years. 

 

Dark Angels have always been about compartmentalisation of information, everything is on a need to know basis. If their Primarch turns up and tells the Apothecary to help an injured brother cross the Rubicon and delete all records, I am sure they would do exactly as they are told.

 

Also the Dark Angels are fleet-based so it will be rare for all of them to be in the same place at the same time. Even the highest ranked will struggle to join the dots in that sort of situation and the rank-and-file (even the Deathwing) will have no chance.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Karhedron

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, Robbienw said:

There is still going to be regular corrupted fallen the Dark Antels need to track and capture - the Asmodai preview article said so.

 

If the Companions are indeed former fallen, they could be Lion loyalists who were stuck on Caliban and were only technically fallen.

 

That wasn't the case for any of the Fallen that the Lion actually met in Son of the Forest, who presumably went on to actually form the Companions after their convenient "deaths" in the Arks of Omen. They tended to all fall in the "renegade" bucket rather than being actual heretics, though.

 

(EDIT: To be clear, there WERE some flat-out heretical Fallen in Son of the Forest, but they didn't wind up on the Lion's side).

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Lord Nord