2024 Pricing Update

[Marshal Rohr]

5 minutes ago, Trysanna said:

I know it's meant as a joke, but yeah, adults are allowed to buy toys. Allow yourself to feel unashamed in the things you enjoy! There's nothing wrong with just letting yourself feel like a kid again and enjoy what you enjoy without the weight of adult responsibilities or the stress of the world. 

 

I swear some of you are allergic to nuance. I'm not saying that no one is responsible for their decisions, I'm saying those choices are affected by external factors and those including marketing and advertising, and those things should be taken into consideration when discussing people's purchasing habits, especially, as other have noted, when it results on some people blowing rent or food money on things they don't need. 

 

Like I can't believe some of you are arguing against the banal and nothing statement of "marketing and advertising effect people and their buying habits" which has decades of peer reviewed research proving that those things do have an effect on us. Please go read a single paper of the subject, I'm begging you. 

 

 

You don’t get to feel happiness or like a kid again when bills are due! Buying toys is for responsible people!

[Special Officer Doofy]

7 hours ago, Halandaar said:

People who are particularly happy or unhappy tend to seek ways to make those feelings heard, the majority in the middle do not actively seek ways to say "meh".

 

Meh.

[Marshal Rohr]

The type of advertising and marketing you are referencing is not the type of marketing and advertising GW does. 
 

source: wife went to one of the largest comms schools in the country and did six years in marketing. 

Edited May 7 by Marshal Rohr

[Kallas]

12 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

People need to take responsibility for themselves and admit they can resist mild FOMO marketing techniques.

But that's the point: FOMO techniques are made to put pressure on the individual, that's their designed purpose.

 

"Oh, I could buy this thing, I'm not 100% on if I want to buy it...but I've got to make a decision before it's gone; oh, and we know that they always go out of stock pretty quickly, hmmm... Well, it's not that bad to get this is it?!" It's not meant to be an in-your-face "BUY NOW!" thing, it's designed to slowly instill that fear of missing out to the point that people are more likely to buy things quickly without putting as much thought into it.

 

Like, that's the whole point - it's basically social engineering to increase sales by generating the fear of a product someone might want to get being unavailable, so they're more likely to grab it when they can: which in turn fuels the system by making the item more scarce and instilling that same fear in more people. Whether people should/n't be susceptible to it or not is somewhat irrelevant: people are susceptible to it, and a big part of that is because it's not an in-your-face marketing method.

 

16 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Appeals to authority and excitable claims that evil  ‘predatory’ GW is forcing poor vulnerable gamers to go bankrupt buying their non-essential items is not a convincing argument 

Are people saying this, or is this just a nice strawman you're propping up to argue against?

 

People are saying that GW is being predatory (and FOMO techniques are predatory, whether or not people "should" resist them better or not), they're not saying they're schoolyard bullies coming over to steal your lunch money; but GW's practices have been growing increasingly predatory over the past decade.

 

Is a relatively small price increase the end of the world? No. Is it indicative of GW's continuing path? Yes. How much of a problem this is will vary from person to person. Clearly you're a person who is fine with companies taking every advantage of a situation they can, customer-be-damned - bring on rugged individualism I suppose. It's not like there are societal issues exerting forces on people that pressure them into seeking various forms of release from the ever-increasing grind of humanity when we have more than enough for everyone, and yet we have to capitulate to the never ending hunger of infinite capitalist growth - just ignore these issues, let people suffer that grind without entertainment because it's a luxury, and never hold any company to account for their part in the perpetuation of said issues.

[DuskRaider]

Between deciding that their player base is now 10 or we’ve all dipped below the average IQ level with their overly simplistic rules for 40K and the average army costing as much as a used BMW these days, there’s no reason to keep supporting this company. Both my 30K and 40K armies have been shelved and the only thing keeping me in the hobby is LI / AT and we’ve seen how that’s been going so far…

 

Funny, with the prevalence of 3D printers, their cheap entry fee and their increasingly impressive resolution rates, you’d think GW would be smarter with their business model and make things more affordable. Their current MO seems to bury their head in the sand and if you say anything about it, they ban you from their social media. 

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I have no love for GW business practices. They profit margines are obscene, even if in line with some of other kit manufacturers. The Old World is a scandal to me and I cannot wrap my head around how it can turn any profit, how can people jofully buy ugly old miniatures, some of them in a compeltely archaic medium of white metal.

BUT

I don't really get the FOMO argument. 99.99% of kits is in perpetual production. Very few are not avaiable as standalone boxes. There are no discounts on release day and there are no sales. The company is a behemoth compared to competition and there's no fear of it going out of business.  So what's there to fear of missing out? You can calmly plan your purchases, even schedule them safely for years ahead. How is GW supposedly creating the FOMO? The only one I can think of as being FOMO was Areonautica, where you couldn't play without one of starter boxes, which were in very short runs. I see no porposefully created FOMO in HH or WH40k or Necromunda and if GW is trying to do this than they are really bad at it.

[Marshal Rohr]

Also GW isn’t actually doing FOMO marketing in the way predatory marketing uses it, they are quite literally not going to have enough stock because they can’t make enough stock. When Apple says “while supplies last” they actually have the phones made in rose gold or whatever. GW doesn’t. 

Edited May 7 by Marshal Rohr

[Schurge]

Its just money guys, that's why "they" need so much of it. (And why the lower and middle classes living paycheck to paycheck treat it like its worthless, though they are the least able to afford to do so.)

 

It is 100% correct that GW's duty is to the shareholders, and that people are responsible for their own actions. All that said, when I quit Warhammer I gave away most of my collection. (Also gave away most of what I owned.) What little money I got back off of the thousands I had spent over a decade was whatever the given addict-neckbeard had in his pocket because he said he "had to give me something" because he "knew how expensive it all was." Most were happy to get free Warhammer.

 

The majority of the whales in the various Warhammer communities I've been a part of were underemployed nerds working low-rent jobs. And the truth is, most can ill-afford their consumption habits. (Addictions.) Likely, even you, dear reader.

 

It is a bit silly to draw the line on plastic toys, sure. And, GWs unsustainable (and exploitive / predatory) behaviors are the same unsustainable (and exploitive / predatory) behaviors of the major players in the broader economy and government. The fact that no one is going to starve to death or develop a neurological disorder over it doesn't really matter, and it still is contributing to the ongoing mess that is the world.

 

I didn't quit Warhammer over their prices. I would like an excuse to return to Warhammer, but their prices - among so many other things - keep staying my hand.

Edited May 7 by Schurge

[Tyriks]

=][= Drop the personal jabs. We will discuss this respectfully or not at all. =][=

[Osteoclast]

7 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Companies are simply not entitled to quarterly price-matching to inflation. And it's much worse in context, when wages do not follow the same rules, but remain stagnant or people are mass fired and have to seek worse-paying jobs to survive.

 

1) Why are companies not entitled to price-matching on a regular basis rather than being forced to conduct price cuts terms of real/constant dollars? Thats a rather odd position to hold especially given that their inputs are going up with inflation. Also I’m pretty sure this is an annual adjustment. 
2) GW is not responsible for their consumers economic status and all the less so as what is effectively a luxury product. 
3) While I admit a lack of familiarity with the U.K. economy, real wages in the US are rising and the US is currently in the longest stretch of full employment in its history if I’m not mistaken. 
4) GW is matching inflation, not gouging, and is giving plenty of warning ahead of time so that you could avoid the increase if you have particular models in mind. I’m not sure what else you’d like them to do. 

[LittlePlasticHomies]

Can we all admit that most of this is a pretty extreme reaction for what works out to like $2 for a completely optional purchase?

Edited May 7 by LittlePlasticHomies
Grammar

[Special Officer Doofy]

11 minutes ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

Can we all admit that most of this is a pretty extreme reaction for what works out to like $2 for a completely optional purchase?

 

Do not ruin my free Tuesday night entertainment.

[DarkChaplain]

Quote

We’re giving you a heads-up now so that you have plenty of time to take advantage of current prices. 

 

Joke's on us, all the stuff I wanted to grab is sold out, either temporarily or getting axed...

[crimsondave]

It’s supply and demand.  Demand is high, supply (due to GWs continued incompetence to manufacture enough product to meet demand) is low therefore increase the price to lower demand.  The inflation argument is a load of crap.

 

Not to get too microeconomics, but net profit margin isn’t the same what it cost to produce vs what you can sell it for.  It’s literally the net profit vs total revenue.  5% is considered low, 10% is healthy, and 20% is considered high.  GW’s net profit margin is 28.83%.  They didn’t have to raise prices.  They just know they can.  It sucks but corporations are going to do corporate things and that is squeezing every dime out of the consumer they can get.

Edited May 8 by Captain Idaho
Unnecessary comment removed

[phandaal]

55 minutes ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

Can we all admit that most of this is a pretty extreme reaction for what works out to like $2 for a completely optional purchase?

 

Well, this is a forum dedicated in part to those optional purchases. The reactions seem intense and focused because that is the only topic allowed to be discussed here.

 

No doubt people have other things going on in their lives, but I doubt the thread would stay up for long if we all started talking about the things that stressed us out at work or what our opinions are on the latest global current events.

 

So yeah, don't take people talking about minis on a mini forum as an indication of the sole focus of their lives.

[MithrilForge]

I'm just glad GW doesn't make Fallout shelters... Cause I'd hate to think what they'd do to up their sales !!  GW & Vault-tec are becoming very similar in their great desire for Consumer Control and the almighty Dollar... 

as always, I only buy what I like and what I can afford... yes, GW has got a lot less money from me over the years and it looks like that will be less even more soon enough... 

 

 

M.  

[ThaneOfTas]

I do have to ask, was I the only one who was unreasonably annoyed by them calling these "Pricing Changes" rather than "Price Increases"? Like obviously I get why, never use a negative when you can use a neutral in marketing and whatnot, but it just rubs me the wrong way, it's not like the prices would ever "change" for the lower. 

 

I know it's not really that deep, corpo speak just irkes me.

 

Regardless, my pile of shame honestly has more than enough for me to keep going for the next couple of years, by which point I'll be in a position to get myself a 3d printer. After that GW will just have to convince me that they have a product worth spending my money on, and the way that they've been going lately I kinda doubt that they'll manage it.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Yeah, this is no skin off my back. As of a month or so ago I decided to stop giving GW money altogether. I'm done with 40K, not interested in another reboot of Sigmar, and already have the rules for Old World and Necromunda. Sink or swim, their fate is out of my hands.

 

When I get around to doing Beastmen I'll buy them third party.

[Marshal Rohr]

42 minutes ago, Trysanna said:

Because I don't want to just be a big meanie, here's some stuff to read if you want to know more about FOMO.

Here is an intro article about the subject from Forbes, here is a publication on how it effects people's mental well-being, and another article with a pretty broad overview of how it affects different aspects of life.

 

Also, real quick because this is still annoying me. "It's not predatory"

If it wasn't predatory, this stuff wouldn't be making some peoples mental health and well-being worse and increasing anxiety and depression. Which is factually happening, please go read the articles and then read all the sources before you argue because you are, in fact, objectivity wrong. I swear some of you would argue the colour of the bloody sky.

 

If this is your big hobby, not being able to field updated and suddenly very good units leads into this. Of missing out. There's anxiety about not getting something because "what if it's good later? What if I regret not getting it?" Sure, you might not experience those anxieties or thoughts, but a lot of people do, and it's important to take that into account. To listen and be mindful of those in our community who do have a hard time with this. Maybe we should help people not make possibly big financial missteps? Sure, it's their fault, but who cares? People make mistakes. Don't tell me you've never made a poor financial decision that you regretted but just had to deal with.

 

And if this is the thing that you let yourself enjoy because food and housing and transportation and everything is SO EXPENSIVE then not being able/allowed to get something hurts even more. Again, this is a super complex issue with a whole, whole lot of nuance, but being dismissive or mocking this well documented, researched, scientifically verifiable issue and/or having zero empathy for those who do struggle with this isn't helping anyone, it's just being a bit of a dick. And yeah, it's toys, but that's not what matters in this conversation. It could be anything. It is anything! Gacha characters and loot boxes and skins and emotes and a million other things because it's not actually about the product, it's about the ways we are effected by our desire for things and our ability to obtain them, and the ways that effects us. And no, I don't have a solution for this, I'm just a dumb art nerd, I don't know how to fix systemic issues with our current modern day world or our deep and (sometimes) unhealthy need to have things.

 

And if none of this your bag, that's cool! But maybe don't be a dismissive dick to people who do struggle with this stuff, maybe do some reading on it before deciding that anyone who ever makes a poor financial choice is just a stupid idiot, and just in general have some empathy for people. I know that's asking a lot sometimes but come on.

 

I'm going to go buy a Land Raider for my NL before the stupid thing gets even more expensive. I remember when they were $75 Canadian.

How are you getting mad at people for reading comprehension while continuing to misuse and misidentify GW Marketing and Advertising as FOMO? “While stocks last” is a very real hard limit on what GW can sell. GW doesn’t run sales. They send a “do you still want this” email, I guess that’s normal FOMO. The queue system isn’t marketing, it’s literally their terrible website infrastructure. Their influencer program has  the opposite effect you’d want for FOMO marketing, because for every “Leviathan is awesome” review a leak ruins the enthusiasm. You just keep calling it FOMO and it’s not really FOMO marketing. It’s just normal marketing. People’s reaction to the Sunday preview is their own problem. 

Edited May 8 by Marshal Rohr

[Captain Coolpants]

I can't blame GW for inflated prices, if they put the prices up, and people still buy the stuff...Then how it is their fault lol. They're actually even more popular than ever given the higher costs. Of course they'll keep doing it. I know I would if I owed a business (thats not selling a life saving product/service). 

 

Saying that though, although technically I can afford it, I was priced out of my comfort zone many years ago, when they first started bumping prices up. Although detail and quality are top notch these days, characters used to come in blister packs for like £8... Now its 5 times that for some. 

 

I do think 3d printing is the way forward, I used to use Chinese recasters (quality always great) but they tend to just charge half of retail-ish, so even their pieces creep up just because of GW prices lmao. 

 

[joschlumpf]

My biggest problem with this is the blatant lie.

3-5%, except Sweden and Norway....and probably 200 more countries. 

Austria and Germany have a 5-11% increase with 5% being like 10 of the 200 items. 

 

Not to mention they increase prices on models that are 20+ years old and models that are a month old.  If you are really that bad at business that neither your old stuff nor your new stuff is making profit, maybe just stop being a business...

[Robbienw]

Quite right Rohr.  Nothing they have done is ‘predatory’.  Calling their very tame marketing and incentives ‘predatory’ is histrionics.

Edited May 8 by Robbienw

[Xenith]

19 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Just a warning to the hordes about to purchase a 3D printer; it's an entirely new hobby for you, so be prepared for what that means.  I'm finding I don't enjoy the printing aspect that much. 

 

Just wait until people see the recent 15% price increase in print resin, and the demand driven price increases that will follow when loads of people buy printers, and that's before we get to running a printer for 12 hours a day with a background of spiralling electricity costs .

 

The reason you can print a pirated model for £1 is because you're not having to pay any of the development and marketing costs thast GW has. Original stuff will always be more expensive that pirated. As ever, some people will always pirate, some will always buy legit, and this has moved the dial ever so slightly to the pirates. 

[TheArtilleryman]

Entirely predictable and I’m now completely indifferent to it.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - this is why I buy almost everything from eBay nowadays. I can’t remember the last time I stepped into a GW or Warhammer store and bought something other than a pot of paint, because they priced me out of their stores a long time ago. 
 

Let other people pay the inflated prices and take advantage of their FOMO and impulse-purchases when they sell them on eBay at a steal later. The amount of stuff I’ve managed to get this year at a quarter of retail value is nuts.

 

Edit: just added it all up:

 

Leman Russ tank x 3 £120

Chimera £35

Infantry £30

Command £27.50

Heavy weapons £30

Age of darkness £185

Heavy weapons £28

2 x special weapons £56

Land raider proteus £55

Liber Astartes £42.50

Liber Hereticus £42.50

Plus another HH bundle containing not sure what but at a minimum:

60 forge world marines - even plastic would be at least £135

3 contemptors including one with a resin chest plate £137.50

5 cataphractii £20

10 resin lascannons £35

And a ton of iron warriors FW shoulder pads at least £100

 

Total value £1079+

 

Total spent £230

 

Just be smart and patient with your money and don’t pay GW prices. 

Edited May 8 by TheArtilleryman

[Robbienw]

 

22 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Entirely predictable and I’m now completely indifferent to it.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - this is why I buy almost everything from eBay nowadays. I can’t remember the last time I stepped into a GW or Warhammer store and bought something other than a pot of paint, because they priced me out of their stores a long time ago. 
 

Let other people pay the inflated prices and take advantage of their FOMO and impulse-purchases when they sell them on eBay at a steal later. The amount of stuff I’ve managed to get this year at a quarter of retail value is nuts.

 

Is this for pre-assembled and/or painted items?  I can see it with books as they seem to lose value fast, but £14 for something like a new condition Land Raider Proteus on ebay seems implausible!