Challenge: Making Drop Pods work in 10th

[Deafbok]

Hey all!

 

A bit of a fun one here - was having a discussion about how drop pods could possibly be used in 10th Ed, with the general consensus being that they're really not up to much right now. I own 5 of them, having started in the hobby at the tail end of 3rd, and 5th saw me putting together a full Steel Rain force. I know I'd love to put them back onto the table as they're really thematic for marines!

 

So, the issues:

- Massive footprint on the table, so easily screened

- Limited selection of potential passengers

- No charge after disembarking

 

The pros:

- Put units where you want them, early

- Area denial/screening/scoring

 

My thinking, then, is this: Drop pods need a secure Drop zone to avoid being screened out - which means you need boots on the ground to screen the screens, so to speak. Enter the Infiltrators - who can throw out a 31.5" deployment and deep strike denial bubble around a 5 man unit put down in a straight line. Put them far forward enough, and they should be able to mess with your opponent's deployment zone. 

 

So what benefits from this? 

Units with mid-range shooting. Hellblasters and Devastators, I reckon. So those guys can come down in mid-board positions behind the Infiltrators in the "denial zone" with the best possible lines of fire after deployment, and you put the pods where they can best be of nuisance value for objectives with those restrictions. 

 

Go with a Firestorm Detachment to lean into that and provide post-drop mobility, and maybe it'd have some legs?

 

Here's the WiP list I've started putting together with this stuff in mind - what do people reckon? What best backs this up? Could it work?

 

Quote

Steel Rain (Firestorm) (1725 points)

Space Marines
Imperial Fists
Strike Force (2000 points)
Firestorm Assault Force

CHARACTERS

Apothecary (50 points)
  • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
    1x Close combat weapon
    1x Reductor pistol

Captain (80 points)
  • 1x Heavy bolt pistol
    1x Master-crafted power weapon
    1x Relic Shield

BATTLELINE

Intercessor Squad (80 points)
  • 1x Intercessor Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Bolt rifle
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Intercessor
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Bolt rifle
      4x Close combat weapon

Intercessor Squad (80 points)
  • 1x Intercessor Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Bolt rifle
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Intercessor
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Bolt rifle
      4x Close combat weapon

OTHER DATASHEETS

Devastator Squad (120 points)
  • 1x Devastator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Boltgun
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Devastator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Boltgun
      4x Close combat weapon

Devastator Squad (120 points)
  • 1x Devastator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Boltgun
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Devastator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Boltgun
      4x Close combat weapon

Devastator Squad (120 points)
  • 1x Devastator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Boltgun
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Devastator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Boltgun
      4x Close combat weapon

Drop Pod (70 points)
  • 1x Storm bolter

Drop Pod (70 points)
  • 1x Storm bolter

Drop Pod (70 points)
  • 1x Storm bolter

Hellblaster Squad (115 points)
  • 1x Hellblaster Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
      1x Plasma incinerator
  • 4x Hellblaster
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Plasma incinerator

Hellblaster Squad (115 points)
  • 1x Hellblaster Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
      1x Plasma incinerator
  • 4x Hellblaster
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Plasma incinerator

Inceptor Squad (130 points)
  • 1x Inceptor Sergeant
    • 1x Assault bolters
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 2x Inceptor
    • 2x Assault bolters
      2x Close combat weapon

Inceptor Squad (130 points)
  • 1x Inceptor Sergeant
    • 1x Assault bolters
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 2x Inceptor
    • 2x Assault bolters
      2x Close combat weapon

Infiltrator Squad (100 points)
  • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
      1x Marksman bolt carbine
  • 4x Infiltrator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad (100 points)
  • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
      1x Marksman bolt carbine
  • 4x Infiltrator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Marksman bolt carbine

Terminator Squad (175 points)
  • 1x Terminator Sergeant
    • 1x Power fist
      1x Storm bolter
  • 4x Terminator
    • 4x Power fist
      4x Storm bolter

Exported with App Version: v1.14.0 (42), Data Version: v379

 

[Karhedron]

If you are going with Firestorm then don't forget the potential of Infernus Marines. Drop in an play Immolation Protocols on them for an average of 6 MWs + regular damage. The only downside with this is that there is not room in the pod for Captain to make the Stratagem free. In some ways I would say Infernus Marines are the best cargo due to their deadly firepower but limited 12" range. Hellblaster and Devastators can get by fine in other Transports.

[Deafbok]

9 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

If you are going with Firestorm then don't forget the potential of Infernus Marines. Drop in an play Immolation Protocols on them for an average of 6 MWs + regular damage. The only downside with this is that there is not room in the pod for Captain to make the Stratagem free. In some ways I would say Infernus Marines are the best cargo due to their deadly firepower but limited 12" range. Hellblaster and Devastators can get by fine in other Transports.

Agreed, though I think finding a good drop zone for them without them getting screened out might be more tricky.

 

Perhaps paired with an Inceptor strike to clear a DZ?

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, Deafbok said:

Perhaps paired with an Inceptor strike to clear a DZ?

 

Inceptors can't drop in until T2 so even if they clear a zone, it will still be T3 before you can plop the pod in it.

 

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way and we should be thinking about using the Pod to disrupt enemy Deep Strikers. The Pod arrives T1 so it will always turn up before enemy Deep Strikers, even if you go second (unless that also have pods). Plonk it down in the middle of the table and that is a huge chunk of real estate that the enemy cannot now deploy in. Put something cheap in there like a couple of Intercessor squads so spread the denial.

 

Because of its enormous footprint you can probably deploy the pod between 2 Objectives and have the Intercessors capture one each. Sure Intercessors are not that hard to kill but the will sticky the Objectives meaning that your opponent will have to manoeuvre to deal with the problem.

[SvenIronhand]

Hellblasters are obscene for 115 pts. They shoot out so much plasma; one would think it was going out of style. 

[AutumnEffect]

I second the Infernus squad. I've toyed around with the idea of taking 2 squads of 5 in a Pod. They benefit a lot from the forward deployment while also being relatively self-sufficient as a unit. They're also cheap at 80 points.

 

Part of the problem with Drop Pods is that you can hold units in Strategic Reserve and have them arrive 6" off any board edge on turn 2 without paying any points. For a lot of units like the Hellblasters and Devastators that don't gain anything from being close any more, that's enough.

The Drop Pod lets you come in turn 1 but you are paying 70 points for the privilege. That's just a couple points shy of another 5 man squad. And against quite a few armies (Tyranids, Orks, Custodes, even other more melee marines than you) you really, really don't want your unit to actually be that close. Sure you can drop the pod further away but then...why take it in the first place?

So unfortunately the Drop Pod is going to remain a really niche choice, one that could stand a bit of a price cut. Ten Infernus Marines, either one fat squad to try and get the most value out of Overwatch or two smaller ones to split focus and disrupt objectives, is about the only unit that I can think of that would benefit. It doesn't mind being close to melee armies as much as other units because their overwatch isn't exactly trivial. You can dare them to charge you with chaff and like I said before they are fairly self sufficient, able to clear small objective-holder units well enough.

 

Edit:
I'd honestly advise against putting Hellblasters in them this edition. Since they gave them Heavy and a flat 2 shots at 24" range, they are most efficient not moving and getting BS 2+. And because they have Assault as well you can leap-frog to cover by Advancing for more speed with good effect.

Devastators likewise hate having to move, losing their Ignores Cover rule and the benefit of BS 2+ from Heavy. Their best weapon (Grav-Cannon and by a big margin) also has enough range at 24" For you to generally not have to worry about getting them closer.

With just five turns in the game now you really need to squeeze every bit out of these high-damage-low-endurance units before they get removed.

 

Edited May 20 by AutumnEffect

[DemonGSides]

Suicide Infernus in Firestorm is a legit use case, but Hellblasters want to be in a transport with Firing Deck more than anything.

Keep the petals closed and it's less of a nuisance on the battle field as well.

I'd also prefer the drop pod to let units drop within 9" instead of dropping T1; I almost never want to drop T1 since the battlefield works the way it does, but being able to drop close would be a lot nicer.  Let whatever comes out charge as well, make the drop pod a melee delivery vehicle as opposed to it's borderline useless niche right now.

[Galron]

I have played them effectively in 10th so far. Unless I am running an armored fist with my Dark Angels, I run them as a drop pod assault. I have zero issue with screening unless my opponent is a nid player with multiple biovores and goes first. I am a firm believer of dropping in the opponent's face and bring close range weapons accordingly. A squad of 5 infernus in a pod for chaff and guard clearing, a 9 man squad of Hellblasters with an LT for enemy heavy infantry or vehicles, and a pod of 2 dev squads, both with Gravcannons and typically their target is the OaM. My goal is to shut the opponent in his deployment zone and if I can land on an objective to do the job, so much the better. Backing them up is a pair of intercessor squads on foot, a combi-LT and a Ballistus dread. T2 a 10 man terminator squad with librarian drops in along with a 5 man assault terminator squad with a captain.

 

I have found against most average opponents, this will cause the opponent to play cagey and defensively and not push out as aggressively as he should. If he does push out, it often leaves units hanging in the breeze. I play firestorm mostly for the boost to strength and assault buff and rarely use any strat aside from armor of contempt.  

Drop pod assault is by far my favorite approach to playing marines, I just wish pods were cheaper and dedicated transports. 

[CCE1981]

A 10-man squad of Infernus Marines isn’t so bad as a Suicide unit, remember they AUTO hit in overwatch.  You could drop three pods in a Cluster around a middle objective.  Vulken attach to Company Heroes, Devastator squad in one pod, 2x 9-man Infernus Squads in the other two with attached Captains.  That’s two Oberwatch’s and two Immolation Protocols, plus Vulkan’s re-roll wounds on all of that.

[Lord_Valorion]

You can attach a char to a 10man unit. You just to have to take 9 models, since you take 6-10, not 10 directly. But increases the price of the char indirectly due to the missing last guy you paid for.

[Galron]

Just remember to spend the CP on the first of each overwatch and IP before popping the free ones.  I have played pods a lot this edition, I found getting in your opponents face to do damage and leaving objectives for follow on troops was far more valuable than swarming an objective. You usually can get a squad of intercessors from a home objective to stepping foot on the center objective in T1 unless you really flub the advance roll. I prefer to think of my pod units as surgical strike teams with specific goals in mind. They arent designed to last. I do like the literal firebase idea, but I will have to visit the warhammer store a few more times for more free infernus dudes before I can pull it off :P It will give me a reason to convert my Vulkan model to my redeemed color scheme. Its for sure a nasty little nut in the center the opponent has to crack through, but unless you can grab the other objectives it will be hard to win. The biggest problem I found with my pod list was anti-armor and mobility. I bring a Ballistus and some foot infantry but there had been several games where my non-pod troops spend the entire game advancing to objectives. The opponent can simply choose to ignore the 12" bubble in the center for a couple rounds and chew through the 3+ power armor guys pretty easily.

[L30n1d4s]

One option for using Drop Pods is Sternguard in an anti-Infantry role with max Combi-Weapons. At only 18 points a model, they are pretty reasonably pointed now and can provide a good Dev Wound counter to some of the big Infatry threats out there, like Mega Nobz in a Bully Boyz detachment or Necron Wraiths with a Technomancer attached (he gives them the infantry Key Word) or GK Terminators or WE Exalted Eightbound.

 

Being able to come in turn 1, anywhere more than 9", can really either mess with your opponent’s plan or, if they don't zone out appropriately, let you kill a key infantry unit before they even get much use out of it.

Edited May 22 by L30n1d4s

[Galron]

I tried Sternguard early in the edition, I just wasnt impressed overall. You're getting 16 shots with the combis, say 14 hits with OoM, thats just 7 dev wounds plus whatever you get from the heavy bolters so lets say 2 wounds(4 damage). You might kill 3 meganobs if he doesnt make his 5+++s. In my experience ork players have a mystical ability to roll far more 5+ than should be even remotely statistically possible. Then they eat your sternguard and rez a dude and heal anyone wounded. 

Edited May 22 by Galron

[CCE1981]

I have to disagree that Sternguard are reasonably priced.  They pay at least a 15% premium just for the ‘privilege’ of doing Mortal Wounds. Their output is woefully lackluster.  I tried them at the beginning of the edition when we got to re-roll wounds…paltry at best.  My tabletop experience has shown Infernus Marines for 2 pts cheaper per model double the number of ‘real wounds’ across all targets, the only issue being range, seeing how I run them in Impulsors that isn’t an issue.  

[Malakithe]

I think Sternguard can work as a pod unit in Firestorm. That was my original plan. Bolt rifles ar 12" for the +1S and rapid fire will make for good infantry shredders. Add 2 heavy weapons to flavor. 

 

Also the footprint isn't that bad when compared to the age of Green Tide teleporting 20 man Boyz units.

[L30n1d4s]

That's a good point... 8 Sternguard Bolt Rifles (3 x S5 AP-1 Dmg1 Dev Wound shots each at 12" in Firestorm), plus 2 Pyrecannons (2D6 +2 S7 AP-1 Dmg1 auto-hitting Ignores Cover shots at 12") can go a long way to taking down lots of enemy infantry... in later turns, if you can get within 6", you can use Crucible of Battle to give +1 to wound to make their shooting even more dangerous... wounding T4 on a 2+ with an average of 35 AP-1 shots is quite respectable!

[AutumnEffect]

Mathematically the combi-weapons are very specialized for taking on high-armor high-toughness infantry.
Against Meganobz the combi-weapons are a little more efficient at 8.75 wounds while the bolt rifle is at 7.56 wounds. (Both with Oath of Moment)

But the Meganobz are the ideal target for the combi-weapons. Against anything not infantry and against infantry that is not toughness 5 the sternguard bolt rifle is better. 
In just my opinion the benefit is too low in their narrow niche to justify taking combi-weapons, but obviously your mileage may vary. If you play against a lot of Meganobz and Deathwing armies then it could be worth taking them.

 

Interestingly, compared to standard Intercessors, Sternguard look pretty amazing for a cost-to-firepower ration. 
10 Sternguard with Bolt Rifles & Oath of Moment at half range vs Space Marine Equivalent = 10.37 wounds

10 Intercessors with Bolt Rifles & Oath of Moment vs Space Marine Equivalent = 4.44 wounds

 

Not bad for just 2 points more per model. This might actually make Sternguard with Bolt Rifles viable in a Pod to get within 12", though I still like the idea of them in an Impulsor more since it can protect them from return fire.

Edited May 24 by AutumnEffect

[jpwyrm]

5 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

That's a good point... 8 Sternguard Bolt Rifles (3 x S5 AP-1 Dmg1 Dev Wound shots each at 12" in Firestorm), plus 2 Pyrecannons (2D6 +2 S7 AP-1 Dmg1 auto-hitting Ignores Cover shots at 12") can go a long way to taking down lots of enemy infantry... in later turns, if you can get within 6", you can use Crucible of Battle to give +1 to wound to make their shooting even more dangerous... wounding T4 on a 2+ with an average of 35 AP-1 shots is quite respectable!

 

Bonus : use the Deathwatch kit and give the weapon specialist Infernus Heavy Bolter - now you can play either kind of heavy weapons. There's a guy on youtube who has been running a DevWatch list with 3 Sternguard units in pods. The combo works quite well in the turn Tome of Ectoclade is activated since you get two units for Oath of Moment AND reroll all wound rolls against those two. Sterguards can already reroll 1s against Oath target, but full reroll is a very rare commodity these days but it really bolster the strenght of Dev Wounds dependant unit like Sternguards.

 

As for Drop pod units, I think @Galron has it figured out. Infernus are probably the best candidate. Either you suicide a full ten man unit to cripple a bi unit like boys or use them as speed bump for the rest of your gunline to keep shooting safely. I don't think I would bother with Immolation Protocol on them at 2 CP, just go down and flame your target then flame them again in Overwatch then forget about your Infernus.

[Galron]

Sternguard are ok for that niche Mega-nob application and you have to tailor for it. One unit isnt going to cut it. Two units might eliminate a single squad of meganobs and I would still use the heavy bolter, not the flamer. Meganobs are going to be an issue for any army though so tailoring specifically for them is kind of a waste of time. I think GW will nerf bat them soon enough, they are too ridiculously cheap for how good they are.

 

The thing with drop pods are they die on the vine if you dont support them. Bring the heaviest firepower you can to stick in the pods. I know I fail in the with my one pod of 5 infernus dudes but I ran out of points. The hellblasters and LT + the two dev squads do some real work. But they all die if you dont back them up with heavy firepower and objective scoring units. I wish pods were dedicated transports like the old days and we could have as many as we need. The Steel Rain was awesome and I would bring everyone in a pod.

 

I am going to try the Vulkan burninator pod mix just because I think it looks funny to use. I am skipping the two captains with the Infernus squads, 80 points to buff them up seems a bit wasteful on points. The rest of the list is shoring up a big weakness I have seen with my current list with a lack of mobility and objective scoring. So I am bringing two intercessors and an assault intercessor squad along with an outrider squad and a combi-LT. Their jobs are solely for scoring which Pariah Nexus looks to be big on with Battleline units from what we have seen. In the back field I will keep my Ballistus and with the points for those two captains in 1981's list idea, I will find a Gladiator Lancer. Maybe I'll make this a little mini-vow for the event, not too much I need to paint or buy to do up this force. Some infernus, outriders, vulkan, company heroes. I really like the company heroes set anyway. I have a Corswain model I have been meaning to paint who will make a good stand in for Vulkan. 

 

This should provide a fairly good amount of in the face punch with the 30 pod dudes in 4 units+3 pods, 2 really solid anti-tank units in the back field, and 5 dedicated scoring units with a follow-on wave of ten terminators and a captain. I think it looks good on paper.  

 

EDIT:

I was thinking about it over the weekend in regards to the Burninator Pod list. You really do need that one captain with one of the Infernus marine squads to do the free strat thing, especially in my case since they will be on the board a full turn before the termies and their captain arrive. I still think double captains in pods is too much since the ability can only be used once a turn and with Pariah nexus coming out in the next couple of weeks, that 80 points can go to a battleline unit. I am looking at minimum three battleline in all my lists even if they are minimum sized squads.  So the question is, what do we stick on the Dev squad? Multi-meltas or grav? Grav is very consistent ping damage vs vehicles and you can drop a leman russ in a turn with one. Melta kinda sucks this edition but is made slightly more tolerable with Vulkan's reroll wounds although if you are using that on them, it means the infernus squads are not getting it unless you are aiming for the dev wound strat thing.

  

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:47 AM by Galron