Brother Tyler Posted December 17, 2024 Share Posted December 17, 2024 Kill Team as a separate "game" was originally part of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook in the 4th edition of the game, published in 2004. That version was based on a special scenario for the 3rd edition of the game in which Gav Thorpe's Last Chancers were featured. The original (WH40K) Kill Team was somewhat different from what we have had for the last three editions of the game, but the Joint Ops Mission Pack in the current edition of the game evokes some of the same concepts. Switching gears, the Space Hulk boardgame was originally published in 1989, introducing players to the Adeptus Astartes Terminators, Genestealers, and space hulks. The game was fantastic, earning the Origins Award for Best Fantasy or Science Fiction Boardgame in 1989, with the Deathwing expansion receiving the same award in 1990. A 2nd edition of the game was published in 1996. The game fell into the limbo of being not supported by Game Workshop, though it remained beloved by fans. Cut to 2005 and Games Workshop catered to fans of the Space Hulk game by presenting the Return to Space Hulk rules/guidelines via the web, using the Kill Team rules as a framework. Players were thrilled. And I had the presence of mind to save everything Games Workshop gave us for this offering since I was worried about it later disappearing (spoiler: it did). Of course, Games Workshop later gave us the fantastic 3rd edition of the Space Hulk game in 2009, followed by a 4th edition in 2014 (I consider it edition 3.5, but that's just me being crotchety). The Space Hulk game hasn't received official support from Games Workshop in the time since, however, so it occurred to me that those hobbyists unfortunate enough to not have access to any edition might enjoy using the latest Kill Team rules to sort of play something kind of but not really like it. And then Games Workshop decided to release the Space Marine Heroes Blood Angels [Terminators] as the made to order Heroes of the First Company. While lacking a Terminator Librarian and the appropriate number of Terminators armed solely with power fists and storm bolters, this offering seemed like a great way for hobbyists to get ten Terminators (they would just need a few more power fist/storm bolter Terminators and a box or two of Genestealers). I have the Rise of the Orks game and a few of these Terminator models are in there, and I think they are great as an entry. Naturally, I forked over my hard-earned money for a set. So I've begun yet another project. It's still very much a work in progress, but I figured I'd leave this here as a teaser... No, nothing on that "card" is final. And no, players won't need to buy the Heroes of the First Company to use these rules (if/when I ever get them finished). I figure that anyone that already has the Space Hulk game doesn't need this, so I'm crafting this around players that don't have the Space Hulk game. I expect to use the Gallowdark terrain (I guess it's a good thing I created the Gallowdark Map Workbook ). This is currently envisioned as a Mission Pack for Kill Team - standard Kill Team rules with a few Space Hulkish things added on to evoke the older game. And for those that have their own Terminator models, I'll probably present image-less datacards for the Terminators so you can substitute your own, just for the cool factor. More to come... LameBeard, brother Vorn_GarDos, Dr_Ruminahui and 2 others 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted December 19, 2024 Author Share Posted December 19, 2024 A work in progress... brother Vorn_GarDos and Mithrilforge 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6081752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted December 19, 2024 Author Share Posted December 19, 2024 If you look closely at the Genestealer datacard above, it will be fairly obvious that I used the Patriarch (from the Brood Brothers team) as a guide. Though I removed the Mind Control portion of the Monster rule, I left Into Shadow as a sort of note to explore whether or not that action should be incorporated into the Genestealer rules for this mission pack. The Patriarch will be modified into the Broodlord, of course. More importantly, I've been considering how to emulate [aspects of] the Space Hulk game into this Kill Team mission pack. Things will, naturally, work differently, but I think it's important to get some things that evoke the feel of Space Hulk into this mission pack else there's no real point (otherwise, I could just create team rules for Genestealers and Terminators and call it a day). Just as the Lieutenant Titus Mission Pack emulates a scenario from the Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 video game, including modifications to the Kill Team game rules, this mission pack will include its own modifications to the Kill Team rules to emulate Space Hulk. I hope to include more than one scenario, however. So there are three things I've keyed on as essential to emulating Space Hulk in Kill Team: Blips! Overwatch (and Guard, I suppose) Command Points Yes, there are many other great things about the game, and if there are any that you think are essential but which I haven't named, please let me know in the discussion. I'm probably going to change the Space Marines' datasheets to include APL and Move, for reasons explained below. Blips! If you've never played Space Hulk, blips were a mechanism by which the exact numbers of the Genestealers were unknown, with blip counters representing some number of the gribblies until the Terminators had line of sight to them, at which point they were flipped over and replaced with the indicated number of Genestealer models. If you've ever seen the movie Aliens (and shame on you if you haven't), think about the motion trackers that the Colonial Marines used, especially in the defense of the operations center. Working under the premise that people playing this mission pack don't need to have any edition of the Space Hulk game, blips will have to be a downloadable counters file. Overwatch (and Guard) Models on overwatch can shoot at enemies in their line of sight, while models on guard are better prepared for melee (where the Genestealers excel, so Terminators likely to be in melee with their xenos opponents are slightly less likely to die). This will probably be a special action that certain Terminator operatives can perform, allowing them to perform Shoot actions (and Attack actions, for Guard) if any enemy operatives move through their line of sight. The Visible rule in Kill Team sort of covers aspects of line of sight, but Terminators in Space Hulk only have line of sight in a 90o arc to their front. I'm on the fence about importing this limitation into the mission pack - there are very strong arguments for it from an emulation standpoint, but arguments against it from a simplicity standpoint (i.e., not making the rules too different from standard Kill Team rules). Command Points This mechanism allowed the Terminator player in Space Hulk to give models extra actions, with the rules for Sergeants and Captains (back in older editions) giving the possibility of having more Command Points. Basically, The Terminator player could have 1-6 Command Points each turn, drawn at random. Command Points enabled the Terminator player to give Terminators extra actions - and these were vital for their success. There are various options for representing Command Points in a Space Hulk mission pack. The first, of course, is to copy the concept as much as possible. Another is to allow a specified number of extra actions each turning point, possibly limiting them to one per operative (i.e., the Terminators have, say, 3 extra actions each turning point, but each operative may only perform up to 1 extra action). Yet another is to allow extra actions by the leaders present on the board - a Sergeant may grant 1 extra action while a Captain may grant 2 extra actions. And there may be other methods. It will be difficult to determine a proper way to do this without playtesting, however. As far as terrain goes, while the Gallowdark terrain seems like the obvious choice, I'm undecided about whether to limit the amount of terrain to that which came in one of the Kill Team boxes set in that space hulk (if I recall correctly, that would limit players to one game board and less terrain), or to simply use the Boarding Actions terrain set (basically, two game boards and more terrain). I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on this. If I have time, I'll probably also include modified maps for those of us that have any of the Space Hulk sets, but that will be an extra addition. Mithrilforge and Stef Coudou 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6081864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 I decided to make an adjustment to the Terminator datacards. Instead of the named characters from the Space Marine Heroes series, I'm going with generic types; and the datacards include APL and MOVE stats. I've been slowly working on the updated datacards, with the model images being the key task at this point. Here's a teaser. The MOVE stat of 5" is tentative. Terminator armour is known to be bulky and slow, so it seemed fitting to reduce from the normal move rate, especially the 7" of Adeptus Astartes operatives in power armour. I was debating between 6" and 5", however. In the end, I decided to start with 5" and see how that works in playtesting. Since the Genestealers are being created solely as NPOs, their movement (including that of the Broodlord) will be dictated by the mission pack. The Terminators, too, are being created solely for this mission pack, but I'm creating them more like a regular team. Seeing the power sword in the Terminator Sergeant's hand also reminded me of the Parry ability. This isn't something that is present in Kill Team, however, and I'm trying to keep this from being too different from the normal Kill Team game, especially since the melee outcomes in Kill Team won't be as one-sided as they are in Space Hulk. And just like the Indomitus project (click the ugly face in my signature if you're interested), I'm looking at expanded mission packs for Adeptus Astartes Terminators versus Heretic Astartes Terminators (including the range of options from the Horus Heresy/Scouring through the modern Long War) as well as a Grey Knights versus Daemons variant. Those are further down the road, however. For those that want, I'll include versions of the datacards without Terminator images so that hobbyists can customize their own with their own Chapters/models shown (and perhaps blank Genestealer datacards, too, for those that have their own hive fleets). At this point, I'm thinking of keeping the Terminator operatives to normal Terminators, including Sergeants, as well as Lieutenants and Captains. These are operatives that would be present in all Chapters. I have datacards for Librarians and Chaplains, but the Black Templars don't have Librarians nasty witches and the Iron Hands don't have Chaplains (at least they didn't under the old concept where the Iron Fathers replaced that role). I know that there aren't Terminator Lieutenant models, but it's easy to use the Terminator Captain model in that rank. Limiting the operative types also keeps playtesting simple. I'm looking at 3-5 scenarios/missions. Personally, I love both Librarians (don't tell my Black Templars friends) and Chaplains, so I may include them later. I'm focusing on the initial effort right now, however. Dr_Ruminahui, brother Vorn_GarDos and Mithrilforge 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6085641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Ex_Machina Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Nice project. I have ordered those special Terminators a few weeks ago. They will be put on special bases from Micro Arts featuring floors which you would expect to find in a Space Hulk. This will be then a dedicated team to be used solely in board games and not on the usual wargaming table. Not having access to a Librarian maybe a blow although it will teach you to play more smartly. Alternatively buy an additional Librarian and put him on an appropriate base. Brother Tyler and Mithrilforge 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6093792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 I received an email that my Heroes of the First Company (i.e., the Space Marine Heroes Blood Angels [Terminators]) have shipped and will (should) arrive next week. Yay me! My main struggle at this point is deciding upon the map solution. I'm torn between: Using Space Hulk tiles (which would necessarily have to include downloadable/printable versions for those players who don't have the game) Using the Gallowdark terrain (which would be limited to the basic terrain that was common to all of the sets) And I may decide to do both, providing two versions of each map to support players using either option. Dr_Ruminahui, firestorm40k, W.A.Rorie and 1 other 2 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6103784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother Vorn_GarDos Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) I didnt receive any notification yet that the mto terminators were on there way. Great to read that some ppl are getting it soon. I would suggest running a poll to see what most readers would prefer. My choice is space hulk tiles. Edited April 8 by brother Vorn_GarDos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6104206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 My terminators arrived yesterday. They were gray plastic, not the red some may have expected from the Space Marine Heroes images. Naturally, they come with 40mm round bases. The base size is interesting in that the Space Hulk tiles have always been sized for the 25mm bases of the original Terminators. This makes using the Heroes of the First Company, or any modern Terminator models, challenging to place since they'll be pushing into each other (especially during initial setup). For those who make their own tiles, this isn't a huge deal since 3D printers can scale models up and people who are printing/crafting their own can simply use 40mm (or 1 3/4") squares. Fior people using either the official Space Hulk tiles or a number of third-party sculpting/casting options this becomes a bit more difficult. Regardless, I think that's an issue for which I can address the potential challenges/solutions, leaving it to the players to resolve. Of course, one solution is for players to use the Gallowdark option [if they can't/won't use the Space Hulk tile option]. Thinking more about Overwatch, I previously identified the LOS issue. In Space Hulk, which is a boardgame (not a tabletop miniature wargame), the models are facing in specific directions and have a limited 90o LOS in their front arc. In Warhammer 40,000 and Kill Team, meanwhile, LOS isn't so limited or rigid, so additional measures would have to be implemented to ensure that Overwatch works correctly. I think there might be a simple solution involving markers/chits. One would be used to indicate that a Terminator is on Overwatch, placing it on/near the model's base. Each Overwatch marker would be paired with an Overwatch LOS marker indicating the area that the Terminator is watching. Each pair of markers would be unique, probably via a number or letter, so that you could have multiple Terminators on Overwatch and readily know where each is watching. When the Overwatch marker is placed on/near the Terminator, the LOS marker is also placed on the board to show the area that the Terminator is watching. A Terminator on Overwatch would have the opportunity to perform a Shoot action against any Genestealer in both LOS and X" of the LOS marker. I'm still working through the details, so it's just a rough idea at the moment. As far as Librarians and Chaplains, I'll probably include them, just as I've done in Indomitus. I have datacards prepared for them, though I have yet to add images or rules. If anything, I'll probably adapt the stuff from Space Hulk/Indomitus for them. + EDIT + And something that I have to keep reminding myself of is that this project is not Space Hulk - it's Kill Team with a Space Hulk flavor. I keep finding myself getting carried away and then I have to pull myself back in. In this, I think that the two "Space Hulk" things that I need to focus on (aside from the close confines of a space hulk, the Terminators, and the Genestealers) are the blips (for the Genestealers) and overwatch (for the Terminators). When I want to go full Space Hulk, I need to shift over to the Indomitus project or my derivation of Space Hulk featuring power armoured Space Marines versus Orks purging the roks in the Third War for Armageddon, which I called "Wrath of Angels" but which never developed far. That said, I think there's definitely room to include the Space Hulk tiles as a viable alternative. Grotsmasha, LameBeard, firestorm40k and 2 others 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6104339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother Vorn_GarDos Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/8/2025 at 6:45 PM, Brother Tyler said: My terminators arrived yesterday. They were gray plastic, not the red some may have expected from the Space Marine Heroes images. Naturally, they come with 40mm round bases. .... + EDIT + And something that I have to keep reminding myself of is that this project is not Space Hulk - it's Kill Team with a Space Hulk flavor. I keep finding myself getting carried away and then I have to pull myself back in. In this, I think that the two "Space Hulk" things that I need to focus on (aside from the close confines of a space hulk, the Terminators, and the Genestealers) are the blips (for the Genestealers) and overwatch (for the Terminators). When I want to go full Space Hulk, I need to shift over to the Indomitus project or my derivation of Space Hulk featuring power armoured Space Marines versus Orks purging the roks in the Third War for Armageddon, which I called "Wrath of Angels" but which never developed far. That said, I think there's definitely room to include the Space Hulk tiles as a viable alternative. Right. Then gallowdark is best way to go. I didnt realize the issue with using space hulk tiles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6104442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 Okay, now that I finally got the Gallowdark mapping tool and the NPO datacards finished, I can start working on this again (I have a bad tendency of starting projects, but never finishing them ). The Gallowdark mapping tool is an essential supporting element of this project since it provides the method by which the scenario/mission maps will be developed/presented, while the NPO datacards file are how the Genestealers will be presented. So now it's a matter of getting the datacards finished (and these will likely be tweaked as a result of playtesting) and then working on the scenarios/missions (which will also be tweaked as a result of playtesting). Dialing things back a bit, my current intent is to create 3-5 scenarios/missions. While I'm using the Gallowdark terrain, I'm going to limit things to just the basic Gallowdark terrain. Since many players don't have all four sets, they might not have specific terrain. If scenario/mission development leads to a need for some sort of terrain, the mission pack will include some sort of token that players can use if they don't have suitable terrain. firestorm40k 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6110556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 Okay, a little more thought has gone into this. I'm in "murder your darlings" mode... My approach to this has been a bit scattershot, combining the mission pack concept with my efforts in the Indomitus project (and hence the Space Hulk game). This has led to a bunch of things that I've already ruled out (e.g., Parry). For the Terminators, I've built it pretty much as a regular faction (i.e., similar to the Angels of Death faction, but with TDA instead of power armour). This led to the development of the following LEADER operatives: Terminator Captain Terminator Chaplain Terminator Librarian Terminator Sergeant I'm concerned that this is too broad, however. The Lieutenant Titus Mission Pack, for example, had a very limited set of options for the team. Conversely, the other mission packs that I have seen allow for any of the existing teams to be used against the NPOs. So it looks like I have been combining two efforts: Developing a Terminator Strike Force team (that's what I've been calling it ) Developing missions against Genestealers in a space hulk (which sort of means developing a Genestealer Brood team) There is a natural correspondence here in the context of emulating the Space Hulk game with the Kill Team 2024 rules, but I worry that it might be too much. Or maybe it's just right. I'm not sure. A Terminator Strike Force, developed as a standalone team (and usable against any other team), would have to be balanced against the other teams. Similarly, a Genestealer Brood would also have to be balanced against the other teams. If I remove them from that context, however, I don't have to worry about balancing them against other teams (e.g., Elucidian Starstriders, Mandrakes), and can focus on balancing the missions. So this would become a much narrower effort, much more in line with the implication of the Kill Team as Space Hulk concept. To that end, I can focus on the overall campaign (3-5 missions) and focus on only developing the operatives necessary. So maybe the LEADER operatives for the Terminators would be much more limited, including only the Terminator Sergeant and one of the others I listed above (the Terminator Captain is most representative of the 1st and 2nd editions of Space Hulk whereas the Terminator Librarian is most evocative of the 3rd and 4th editions of the game). Given the Broodlord's psyker powers, I'm most inclined to go with the Terminator Librarian. This would allow those hobbyists who have the more recent editions of the Space Hulk game to use those minis for this Kill Team mission pack. Or maybe I'm overthinking this. LameBeard 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6110814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameBeard Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 I love your overwatch solution, combines limited LOS but only in the genestealer turn, keeping simplicity for shooting. I would drop command points, I don’t think it’s essential and doesn’t really have the same effect in an alternating activations game. I think the crucial thing you need is claustrophobia - the terminators must get in each others’ way, block their teammates’ LOS. Often a game of Space Hulk could be won or lost by an overly optimistic/conservative or wrong-headed placement of your flamer marine. Space Hulk should be hard on the marines and that means making sure their operatives are not too versatile, so they have to make tough choices. Brother Tyler and Dr_Ruminahui 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6110817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 I'm glad you brought Overwatch up... Yes, I'm dropping command points. I think I've reduced the special aspects of the game down to Overwatch/Guard (I haven't mentioned Guard before, but it goes hand in hand with Overwatch as the melee equivalent) and Blips. All of these rely on an adjustment to the LOS rules (compared to normal Kill Team). I have been reconsidering my previous idea for Overwatch (the linked markers) because of how LOS needs to be tweaked to also cover Guard and [converting] Blips. The paired markers work fine when Overwatch is the only consideration. They can be modified to work with Guard, but don't work for Blips (and would be a pain in that case because you would have to move them as the Terminator moves). Overall, this is an area where the conversion from a boardgame (with discrete spaces and derived LOS) to a tabletop miniature wargame becomes complicated. This isn't really an issue in Space Hulk since models move one space at a time and LOS is determined at each step. In Kill Team, however, models move their whole movement distance. In most cases, common sense should prevail in determining if a Blip is in a Terminator's LOS mid-movement, but I could see how some players might try to wiggle their way in/out. Another alternative that has precedent in games like Battlefleet Gothic, X-Wing, Aeronautica Imperialis, etc., is to mark bases. I would see this involving a clear front LOS marking with quadrant markings, such as the image below: The green line (top left) indicates the model's front and the red line (bottom right) indicates the model's rear. The blue lines (top, bottom, left, right) are the quadrants, the top and left indicating the model's right and left LOS limits respectively (and I've marked that arc with the very light gray). The markings on the back (bottom, bottom right, and right) are there to facilitate defining the straight line out from the base. This effectively emulates the concept of LOS from Space Hulk into the Kill Team game. The problem, however, is that many players might not want to mark their models' bases in such a way. A less obtrusive alternative might be to use only the front LOS mark, either as a line (as shown) or something similarly discrete such as a dot. This would be supplemented with a double-sided rounded marker that nestles up against the Terminator's base, one side identifying that the model is on Overwatch and the other identifying that the model is on Guard. This marker might also be used to identify the left and right limits of the Terminator's LOS arc. The image below shows the base rim (gray) with the light green line on the base indicating the model's front LOS point. The blue crescent marker with the red line shows that the model is on Overwatch, with the straight edges of the marker showing the left/right front LOS limits. If I go with this, I would probably match colors with the Overwatch/Guard markers in Space Hulk. I think it's likely that players will actually prefer the least restrictive option: simply using the model's head to indicate facing and then allowing the Overwatch/Guard markers to identify the left/right LOS limits. In this way, they won't have to mar their models' bases. The missions won't play in the exact same way as Space Hulk. The switch to the Gallowdark terrain is part of that (though I'd love to explore this using Space Hulk terrain later). More importantly, the switch from a boardgame with movement across discrete spaces to a tabletop miniature wargame with non-discrete spaces and movement across whole distances, and the adjustment to Kill Team rules, have a drastic impact. In Space Hulk, for example, a Terminator could conceivably shoot up to four times on its own turn, all while moving forward, or two times with being set on Overwatch taking 2 of its action points (and all of this can be adjusted with the use of command points). And while on Overwatch, the Terminator can shoot each time a Genestealer moves in its LOS (unless it jams). Switching to the Kill Team rules and without command points, a Terminator could shoot twice, or it could shoot once and be set on Overwatch (being set on Overwatch or Guard will most likely require an action); and with Genestealers moving their whole movement distance at once, the Terminator would only get to shoot once at each Genestealer that moves in his LOS. I haven't gone through the permutations of the dice rolls, but there are clearly fewer opportunities for a Terminator to hit a Genestealer in shooting. And this is compounded with the fact that missions typically require the Terminators to move, reducing the number of times they can shoot and likewise limiting the option to just stand and wait for the Genestealers to move into their fire lanes without risking failing to accomplish their mission. Similarly, the different melee rules mean that Genestealers won't be quite as effective in Kill Team as they are in Space Hulk. All of that is theoretical and only playtesting will reveal the actual effects of using Kill Team rules, but it's safe to say that will look much more like Kill Team and much less like Space Hulk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/384840-return-to-space-hulk-revisited/#findComment-6110873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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