Starting Chaos Knights (for real this time!)

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Greetings, 

so this has been a long time coming… But I think it’s finally time to start a new army for real. 

 

I have the Chaos Knight army box from a while back, containing one Abhorrent and two War Dogs. Parts included allows building any of the Chaos specific versions (Knights Abominant, Rampager, Desecrator and War Dog Brigand, Karnivore, Stalker.)

 

I also bought the Christmas Loyalist Box, with one Questoris and four Armigers. As advertised, this box only allows for some builds. Included are Melta and Battle cannons, and a chainsword, no carapace guns. The Armigers can build any Loyalist version or three different Chaos War Dogs, depending on loadout. 

 

I’m not sure how many Abhorrents I will want in the full army, but if I want a Despoiler I might need a second Loyalist kit, even though I’d prefer the Chaos chassis for looks. I suppose I could equip it with battle cannons and kit bash a Gatling gun from leftover Forgefiend parts, and improvise something for the carapace mount… 

 

I’m pretty sure I wanna build one Abominant. It doesn’t look like the best setup on paper, but I like how it looks, and I enjoy the idea of a completely Chaos unit, with unique weapons, a tail and ’bestial’ legs - and it’s a psyker! How cool is that?! (Very, in case anyone wonders)

 

The Rampager looks very tempting, with its huge amount of powerful melee attacks. I have the weaponry to build one out of the Questoris, though it would get loyalist legs (perhaps not the end of the world?) 

 

If I build a Rampager, I figure i should perhaps balance it out with a shooty Despoiler as well, with the Abominant offering a mix of the two. 

 

For the two Abhorrents I have, I’m thinking I’ll mix some parts here and there, so neither looks completely Imperial. 

 

 

 

For the War Dogs, once again I’ll probably mix parts. I gave two Armigers to my kid for Christmas, so I have a total of four to play around with. I think I wanna go with one Brigand and one Karnivore at first, and decide the other two later (I’m not a fast builder, or painter, so I have time to think!)

 

For a possible third Abhorrent, while a Chaos kit would give me the aesthetics, I can probably get hold of a Canis Rex at a slight discount, which would help with a shooty build. 

 

What is the preferred loadout for a Despoiler? Battle cannon + Gatling? Dual Battle?

 

Any other thoughts, comments or things I should know? 

Painting the big ones is easiest done in pieces, I guess?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Welcome to chaos knighthood!  You should have fun - the kits are really rewarding to put together and paint, and our current ruleset isn't too bad (though I prefer the list that came out as part of the grotmas detachments - it allows you to take chaos cultists and use them to fuel your knights).

 

Kitbashing of wardogs totally works - that's how I did my four.  If you magnetize them, that should let you field 2 of any particular type, or 1 each of up to 4 types.

 

Kitbashing also works for the abhorents.  My first knight is pure imperial - I think I did a decent job making it look more chaosy, but there is no concealing its imperial roots.  My next two abhorents were a kitbash of the the imperial and chaos kits, and IMHO each looks entirely chaosy - you can see them here and here.  You can also see my whole knight household here, which should give a better idea how they might look on the tabletop.  All my abhorents are magnetized (even the abominant, who has a swappable bum) so I can field them as any of the types, though I tend to keep them as a despoiler, ravager and abominant.

 

I think the abominant is a good pick - its a pretty good all rounder, which is decent in shooting against both vehicles and hordes, decent in melee, and tosses out mortal wounds to enemies close to it.  It isn't as good in any particular role as any of its abhorent siblings, but covers all the bases well - I think there is a place for 1 in most chaos knight lists, though I think I would want the more specialized knights over chosing a second.

 

Personally, my favorite loadout for the despoiler is the double battle cannon (with a 3rd stubber and a havoc launcher on top) - it throws out a ton of hurt at pretty much everything, though anything with a 2+ save you probably want to throw your ravager at instead.  Now that titanic vehicles can't shoot overwatch anymore without a strategem, IMHO the gatling loses a lot of its shine.

 

My advice on new purchases would be to buy both a canis and another chaos abhorent, and then kit bash them together.  That would give you 4 abhorents (probably more than you want, really, but it does allow you field one of each), but does allow you to field a fully kitted despoiler and have all your knights look consistently chaosy.  Then, if you add more wardogs, buy them in pairs of kits, 1 chaos and 1 imperial, to let you kitbash them.  Then, eventually, you'll want to pick up a tyrant, but you'll want to have plenty of bits on hand to chaosify it, as we currently don't have our own version of that.

 

As for painting, sub assemblies are recommended.  I know a lot of people paint the armour plates seperately, but I didn't do that.  At minimum, I would keep the top and bottom seperate and all the weapons off while painting.

 

Hope that helps, and feel free to ask me any questions you might have about kitbashing or magnetizing the models.

Edited January 4 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Very helpful, thank you! 
I have looked at, and thought about, magnetizing, but have decided against it for now. I just wanna get started! Plus I’m not sure how often I’ll actually bother swapping load outs, compared to how often I’ll curse at parts falling off when I try to lift the model by a magnetized part… 

 

Can an Abhorrent be assembled with arms off for painting without magnetizing? Judging by our progress on the first Armiger me and kiddo assembled, those arms are stuck once the shoulder pads come on.

 

I like the idea of a dual battlecannon Despoiler! It gives it a symmetrical look, and it’s easier to roll for multiple identical weapons rather than different guns. One more Canis kit and I can build it! 
 

between the above and an Abominant, it looks like I’ll struggle somewhat with AP, making an Rampager a good third choice I believe? Also gives me one ranged, one melee and one hybrid. 
 

I do have the 9th edition codex, is it worth hunting down older ones (and perhaps even imperial) for the sake of lore and army info? 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Oh, and basecoat spraying - I have a can of leadbelcher and one chaos black. 
 

With all the metal on knights, is leadbelcher preferable? 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Personally, magnetizing is worth it, especially for the wardogs, but it sounds like you maybe a bit far along with them for that to be feasible.  And you shouldn't have a problem picking them up by the magnetized bit - I find one typically picks knights up by the smoke stacks or shoulder pads, plus the weapon arms hang low so you'll never be picking them up by them.  Just make sure you have big enough magnets for the job - if too small, weak or poorly seated, the arms may fall off when picked up - I had that problem with the first magnets I used on my abhorents, but it was easy enough to swap them out for better ones and its no longer an issue.

 

Yes, it is possible to leave the weapon arms off the abhorents for painting - the arms are on a big ring, that rotates to click onto the body (I think its the same system as on the wardogs, just much bigger).  So, just leave that off until after painting.  It is a pretty tight fit, so it will likely be more so after painting, but should still be doable.  I would leave the shoulder pads off until you do, though - I think technically they don't prevent the above process, but will certainly make it more challenging, so best to leave them off until you are done.

 

And yes, I would (and do) prime all of my knights leadbelcher - not only is it likely the base colour of all your mechanical bits, but has the advantages of letting you get brighter colours (which paint better over it than black) and, if the paint on the model is scratched or rubbed off, will reveal the more "realistic" metal colour rather than black.  That said, for those keep the armour components seperate, its not uncommon to prime them a different colour (whatever is appropriate for the final armour colour) and the rest leadbelcher.

 

Finally, in terms of having AP, yeah I think that requires a ravager or desecrator, or to offload your good AP weapons onto your wardogs.  That said, I think the Ravager is a good 3rd choice, as it allows you to play aggressively and contest and/or push back the enemy from central objectives - certainly that's what I field.

Edited January 6 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Very helpful, thanks again!

The two Armigers for my kid are fully assembled, and let’s just say whatever Abhorrent I build first will get a tail… 

I may need to look into magnets, especially for Rampager & Despoiler, so I can change weapons or even turn one into a Desecrator if I feel like it. 

 

I will probably not magnetize the first pair of War Dogs, I just wanna get them started. 

 

Regarding colors, you mean bright ones like the Black & Gold I’m probably gonna rock? A bit boring perhaps, but ties in with my Black Legion, and with some red thrown in there it might not be all bad… 

 

Was thinking the other day, about names and themes. Can I make something based off its weapons? What have we got, a massive heat ray and a wicked whip… A tail, and one head option has horns. Knights of Shade stratagem. Shade, heat, black. Shadow and flame… Shadow and flame! I’m basically building a Balrog!

 

 

 

I got me a Canis Rex kit yesterday and… I had no idea you could model the interior! This is both amazing and extremely annoying, since I now wanna do that, and it’ll be fiddly and time consuming and… yeah. But it did get me thinking regarding living/uncorrupted pilot vs merged with the suit monstrosity. This partially ties into my main hassle at the moment, deciding how to split the parts. 

 

The Abominant, judging by pictures, looks great with full Chaos parts imho, but for a non (physically) corrupted pilot I suppose the loyalist carapace could work, saving the Chaos one for the Canis legs. Unless I get a fourth Abhorrents, as suggested above (good advice btw) I’ll be stretched thin with Chaos bits. But for a more recent renegade House that might not be a terrible idea either?

 

 

 

I did some thinking regarding the state of the pilot yesterday as well. Doesn’t matter for the game, but for me when building and painting, and sort of affects the choice of parts. 

 

Ok, so… the knight pilot has merged with his suit. They are one. He, it, is a monster, a new life form. He has become the Balrog!

 

He is however still the lord, ruler snd protector of his people, despite his monstrous visage, and he cares for them still (though perhaps eats one or two?) 

 

Naturally, the royal courtroom has had to move to the hangar, given his newfound bulk. 

 

I could work with that. 

 

 

 

Or… their merge is - so far - merely on the mental level. Their connection has grown deeper, and the pilot spends more and more time inside his suit, rarely venturing forth without it, to the horror of some around him. 

 

Assuming he wasn’t a psyker before, the suit’s powers could be a result of their deeper connection (And the massive rift in reality Abaddon tore. Perhaps something found a new home within the command throne?)

 

He is still a human, though wears the suit as a second skin, and it almost appears alive when he’s using it. 

 

He either doesn’t understand the full threat of Chaos, or - like both Abaddon and Horus - he allies with it, draws power from it, but doesn’t succumb (yet!). He empowers his suit, to protect his people, all the more important after being stranger beyond the Rift, abandoned by the Imperium. 

 

I’m just rambling now. I suppose I just gotta pick a path forward and stick to it.

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Managed to sneak in some build time today, made good progress on War Dog #1. He’s gonna be a Karnivore. 
 

I’m looking at carapace weapons, is indirect fire worth putting up with random no. of shots? Or do people just not glue them in place, and just swap at will? 

[Karhedron]

22 minutes ago, Annatar Giftbringer said:

I’m looking at carapace weapons, is indirect fire worth putting up with random no. of shots? Or do people just not glue them in place, and just swap at will? 

 

I haven't glued my Armigers, I find they push fit snuggly but are easy to swap. What is good now may not be in 18 months time when 11th edition drops.

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Good point. And nice to hear they seem to fit without glue. 
 

for the Karnivore, I won’t have quite as drastic choices as Melta vs stubber, but still, options are good and easy to swap options even better!

[Annatar Giftbringer]

On a related topic, War Dog/Armiger heads, do people glue them, or just push them in like the carapace guns?

 

Might as well ask about weapon arms too, locked in place (except magnet joints of course!) or built according to instructions, allowing some movement?

[PeteySödes]

On 1/11/2025 at 4:07 PM, Annatar Giftbringer said:

On a related topic, War Dog/Armiger heads, do people glue them, or just push them in like the carapace guns?

 

Might as well ask about weapon arms too, locked in place (except magnet joints of course!) or built according to instructions, allowing some movement?

 

I cant really think of a reason not to glue them. I haven't been able to build mine yet but from dry fits you get some movement about on par with the big guys. The shoulder plates seem to be the biggest limitation but i'd let those more experienced comment on that.