40k Knight Questoris Defender + Codex: Imperial Knights

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, Focslain said:

So detachment preview is up. Warcom Article

 

Quick note, armigars apparently lost battline, there is a detachment that gives it back and give the babysitter multiple leashes. 

 

Outside of that these don't look too bad. 

 

Armigers losing Battleline tracks with the Chaos Knights changes, so it wasn't unexpected.

[Focslain]

7 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Armigers losing Battleline tracks with the Chaos Knights changes, so it wasn't unexpected.

And Chaos has 5 datasheets to the Imperial 2, which is why I was hoping for them to keep it. But them's the breaks.

 

Luckily I already use the FW moriax in my lists which gives me an extra 3 if i need it. In fact my usual formation of 2 big/6 small fits well with the Spearhead at Arms detachment. Which is the armigar heavy one. 

[sairence]

Losing the feel no pain will hurt (literally) but is probably a good change.

 

The previewed stuff actually looks pretty cool though. Probably kind of a side-grade in terms of power, but feela like it should be a lot more interesting.

[01RTB01]

From glancing through, the rules seem quite 'faffy' with a lot to track. Also seems a lot better than their chaos counterparts?

[NTaW]

I'm glad I stopped building while the book was released, otherwise I'd have four Warglaives. Of all the things I was expecting this change wasn't one of them given that IK have 2 options to CK's 5. Ah well. The rules and points change so frequently it's nothing to get caught up with. Over all it looks interesting so far.

[Focslain]

53 minutes ago, NTaW said:

I'm glad I stopped building while the book was released, otherwise I'd have four Warglaives.

*looks at his 9 warglaives, 11 helverins and 6 moriaxs* Yeah, I stopped when I heard we were getting a new kit and hoped it was a armigar variant, maybe a plastic moriax. 

 

Anyway.... the Dauntless Defender detachment looks interesting. 

 

 

I like that they pre-empted an issue with some of the missions. Free tank shock on your front runner is a nice add and the bombardment strat boosts the crusader or helps out with the new defender and the castellan. Also a nice defensive buff to hold the line against those heavy hitters.

 

[Karhedron]

If you can get the combo of Titanic Bombardment and Drive Them Out on a shooty Knight then you should be able to delete almost anything on the tabletop.

[Osteoclast]

46 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

If you can get the combo of Titanic Bombardment and Drive Them Out on a shooty Knight then you should be able to delete almost anything on the tabletop.

Can’t do more than one stratagem on a unit per phase though, right?

[Focslain]

7 minutes ago, Osteoclast said:

Can’t do more than one stratagem on a unit per phase though, right?

The restriction tend to be in the strat itself, however there is no limit to the strats you can use on a unit. the once per phase is for the use of the strat, not it's target.

[NTaW]

4 hours ago, Focslain said:

*looks at his 9 warglaives, 11 helverins and 6 moriaxs*

 

Oof. I was considering that some people may only be able to use one Detachment depending on their Knight:Armiger ratio.

 

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

If you can get the combo of Titanic Bombardment and Drive Them Out on a shooty Knight then you should be able to delete almost anything on the tabletop.

 

I'll be gunning for this combo at least once or twice 

[chapter master 454]

The defense line one is interesting because it has no restriction on what 2 objectives you use. You can use your opponents home objective along with your own to create a center line of death.

 

Though heroes of legend I think is quite potent still. Getting all 3 oaths done in a game isn't too tall an order, especially if you just ram-rod onto all 3 no-man objectives with the bonus move quality. Certainly a gamble but considering most big knights have a ton of OC, it will be hard for the opponent to flip 2 of those objectives fully.

 

I'm quite buzzed...finally getting the codex...finally...after all this time...finally...

[Emperor Ming]

How many dexs are left now with 11th around the corner?

[ThaneOfTas]

4 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

How many dexs are left now with 11th around the corner?

Isn't it just Drukhari? Unless they drop a new one out of nowhere like Corsairs or Dark Mech, but Corsairs are probably going to get included in the Drukhari book at least for now I think. (Maybe next edition they, Harlequins, Ynnari and the ever rumoured Exodite killteam will get rolled into an Agent's style Aldari weirdos book)

[ZeroWolf]

5 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Isn't it just Drukhari? Unless they drop a new one out of nowhere like Corsairs or Dark Mech, but Corsairs are probably going to get included in the Drukhari book at least for now I think. (Maybe next edition they, Harlequins, Ynnari and the ever rumoured Exodite killteam will get rolled into an Agent's style Aldari weirdos book)

Its actually a bit odd to only have Drukhari left to be fair (pretty sure no codex demons this edition). This point in 9th edition we were waiting on 3/4 if I recall correctly. Will be very interesting to see what the next few months turn out like for 40k

[Fenriwolf]

So, with the full rules being out there, the defender seems....eh.....

  

It has a strong ability that wants you to put it as the knight closest to the enemy. But it's also a purely shooting knight with a weapon that wants to be far from the enemy.  

  

It might have uses thrown in with castellans/crusaders/helverins i guess (especially the armigers, since it stole the warden bondsman ability) but at that point you risk building an army that folds if it gets touched in melee

Edited yesterday at 12:30 AM by Fenriwolf

[Karhedron]

Here are the rules for the Defender. 

 

 

As Fenriwolf says, the Void Shield rules don't synergise very well with the weapon loadout. The guns want to stand back and shoot while the Shield wants you to get into the opponent's face to block LOS as much as possible.

 

The C-Beamer is interesting getting Crits on a 4+ at long range but having no native rules to proc the Crits. This unit seems to have been designed with the new Gatekeeper Detachment in mind. The bonuses there are all about drawing lines which is what the Shield rules also want. There is also a Strat giving Sustained hits which will work very nicely on the C-Beamer.

 

So is the Defender any good? A lot will depend on the points. The Plasma gun is very nearly as good as the one on the Castellan. Questoris Knights are a bit short on ranged AT outside of the Errant so I can see the Defender being a competitive choice if priced similarly to the Crusader. The built-in 4++ is also good. Treat the Shield as a situational bonus rather than something to build around.

 

I can see uses for the Defender so it will all depend on the points cost.

[sairence]

21 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Here are the rules for the Defender. 

 

The C-Beamer is interesting getting Crits on a 4+ at long range but having no native rules to proc the Crits. This unit seems to have been designed with the new Gatekeeper Detachment in mind. The bonuses there are all about drawing lines which is what the Shield rules also want. There is also a Strat giving Sustained hits which will work very nicely on the C-Beamer.

 

So is the Defender any good? A lot will depend on the points. The Plasma gun is very nearly as good as the one on the Castellan. Questoris Knights are a bit short on ranged AT outside of the Errant so I can see the Defender being a competitive choice if priced similarly to the Crusader. The built-in 4++ is also good. Treat the Shield as a situational bonus rather than something to build around.

 

I can see uses for the Defender so it will all depend on the points cost.

 

It has Sustained D3 written right next to the Conversion beamer rule. 

 

It's also worth mentioning that the Warden's -1D Bondsman has moved to the Defender. So in Spearhead it can sling up to 3 -1D Armigers forward per turn, which is nasty.

 

But yeah, the actual model rule is a bit of an oddity with the weapons. Guess it can block for a Crusader in Companions, which in turn can give Stealth to the Defender. Book points for it are super high though, same as the Castellan and Valiant.

 

The detachments pretty much all look  interesting. Valourstrike can push out a pretty insane t1 alpha strike with how fast you can get up the board. Companions looks cool as a big Knight detachment. I'll certainly enjoy running a Gallant up with a 14+d6+1" advance, then charge with +1, and then slam 18 sword sweep attacks with lethal and sustained 2 into a target. 

Edited yesterday at 12:49 PM by sairence

[DemonGSides]

Great, more Knights are going to be around.  An already armor heavy game is going to get even more armor heavy.

Yay.  I'm so excited.  Can you tell how excited I am?

[Muck1ng]

Expect to see Knights stay about, that book is cooked..... 

[DemonGSides]

6 minutes ago, Muck1ng said:

Expect to see Knights stay about, that book is cooked..... 

 

Calling something cooked is basically saying they're fried, they're bad, they're done.

The book is really good.  The book is, in fact, cooking, not cooked.  As in, do you smell what this book is cooking?  It's going to People's Elbow a lot of armies.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, sairence said:

It has Sustained D3 written right next to the Conversion beamer rule. 

 

Apparently I should have gone to Specsavers. Thanks for pointing that out. So in practice you only need to roll slightly above average to get 6+ hits.

  

1 hour ago, sairence said:

It's also worth mentioning that the Warden's -1D Bondsman has moved to the Defender. So in Spearhead it can sling up to 3 -1D Armigers forward per turn, which is nasty.

 

That is quite tasty.

  

1 hour ago, sairence said:

Book points for it are super high though, same as the Castellan and Valiant.

 

Hmm, Dominus Knights are only 30 points more than a Crusader in the Index (I haven't seen the codex points lists yet). I think at that price point I would probably rather just take a Castellan. It has better firepower and most of the Defender special rules seem a bit hard to use.

[chapter master 454]

So looking through the leaks. We have the Gallant just casually packing Devastating Wounds on Strike profiles in melee and Lethal Hits on Sweep Profiles which is just obscene, makes it able to possibly bunker bust even tougher invuln covered targets by handing out a big fat number 8 of damage per 6.

Also comically the Gallant has a new ability, it can Consolidate an extra 3" providing it can get within engagement range of another enemy unit...which there is a stratagem in Company of Heroes that lets you get another 3" on your consolidate if you end within range of an enemy unit. Yes, that is indeed a 9" consolidate...9...Eat your heart out World Eater helbrutes....that boy is FLYING towards your line.

 

The armiger based one looks nice, and I think there is some merit now to the preceptor. It now has the same Quarry rule as the Ruinator, you pick a target at game start and once it dies you pick another but now the bondsman ability is to confer the bonus of re-roll wounds it grants to the armigers too which is REALLY good imo.

 

So far, looking at the detachments...all straight up good. Which one will be the best is hard to say...the Defense line one I think will likely not be top dog but at the same time I can't write it off...sustained hits 1 AND ignore modifiers to hit rolls for shooting while standing on the line is powerful. Means even if you lock a knight in combat it still fires to full effect right down to the last wound and all the while you are catching flak from any defense guns it has, even a crusader will likely start just hosing away nuisances with the gatling cannon in short order.

Valourstrike giving some very strong mobility with that blanket assault boon and re-roll advances and mobility is king. Its why Gladius holds such dominance as it adds so much mobility to your faction, been playing Tau and Mont'Ka is just defacto the best imo and we see it in other armies too.

 

And we can confirm that you only need to randomise one element of your oath (Deed or Quality) to get the juicy 3CP reward, however if you set both you only get 2CP. IMO...considering we're here mainly for the Quality, randomise the deed isn't a bad choice imo as all 3 are fairly doable in most situations. Taking Objectives isn't exactly something you are avoiding, merc units in your opponents army (oh no...however will we do that with our overwhelming firepower and melee strength) or just hammer a character of our choice. I can see a world though where you take the CP hit because most stratagems aren't massive CP drains so we'll see how it shakes.

 

Also...canis rex has been brought into line now and is now no longer the powerhouse of GOD as they took away hit Crit on 5+ which was the reason he was so pushed.

 

It looks good.

 

The Defender in my opinion I think should be used as a turn 1 wall unit. It won't shield your knights all game but you can place it so you get a 4++ on key players you want to keep safe that maybe just can keep their dummy thicc base sizes hidden. Also...it does work on Armigers so could even be a front runner for some armigers. I think the key thing with this knight however is it will be terrain layout dependent. On boards like WTC, its a dead pick. You are NEVER getting a LoS that goes 18" on it consistently on things you want to imo. However on other layouts you likely can. I think the best way to use it is a flank anchor, pushes out towards one of the NML objectives and while it goes there you cross shots at targets in the center. Again...it looks good but likely going to struggle due to terrain...that AP2 on the beamer really hurts as only getting AP1 due to cover really drags. Though ignores cover is surprisingly easy to find in the codex all things considered. Not tripping over it like Tau but certainly not contorting your list to find it like say Guard or Space Marines.

[01RTB01]

9 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Great, more Knights are going to be around.  An already armor heavy game is going to get even more armor heavy.

Yay.  I'm so excited.  Can you tell how excited I am?

Let me help you there. 11th edition next summer. Edition churn, something to get even more excited by. 

[DemonGSides]

I'm mostly a fan of the game, besides the two knight factions. Wouldn't mind seeing those go away. Happy to sacrifice my baneblade and astreus to bring the game back away from routine Super Heavies. I get it though, the cat is out of the bag. 

[Madao]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I'm mostly a fan of the game, besides the two knight factions. Wouldn't mind seeing those go away. Happy to sacrifice my baneblade and astreus to bring the game back away from routine Super Heavies. I get it though, the cat is out of the bag. 

Superheavies are fine IF limited. One baneblade in AM army. One allied questoris in imperial army. One big deamon in chaos army. But not the whole army made of them, as it removes any fun for the opponent

Edited 12 hours ago by Madao