40k 40k Perturabo + Stand-Alone Iron Warriors Codex (RUMOUR)

[Lord Marshal]

This was originally posted on The Grand Alliance forum by Boole, the individual who has previously leaked the contents of WHQ Darkwater (as well as some other stuff I think?) so they have at least some reliability behind them rather than being a rando TRUSTMEBRO:

 

Edited yesterday at 10:35 AM by Lord Marshal

[cretacianborn]

As someone just getting back into the hobby after a long break and starting a 30k Iron Warriors force, this feels goooood

[Arkley]

Dear god I hope he looks good... There was a great Daemon Primarch version sadly gone for a long time.

 

 

[Vassakov]

I really don't know if the non-Cult Legions can carry their own book. A supplement, sure, with a few cool things per Legion (maybe a return of Greater Possessed and more cult stuff for Word Bearers, Siege and Daemon Engine stuff for Iron Warriors and the Atramenter and even scarier Raptors for the NL, along with 2-3 characters each) but splitting them into entirely separate codices feels like you'll just reprint C:CSM plus some extras... and that was a mess back in 8th when they did that for the divergent Space Marine Chapters. 

[Lord Marshal]

23 minutes ago, Vassakov said:

I really don't know if the non-Cult Legions can carry their own book. A supplement, sure, with a few cool things per Legion (maybe a return of Greater Possessed and more cult stuff for Word Bearers, Siege and Daemon Engine stuff for Iron Warriors and the Atramenter and even scarier Raptors for the NL, along with 2-3 characters each) but splitting them into entirely separate codices feels like you'll just reprint C:CSM plus some extras... and that was a mess back in 8th when they did that for the divergent Space Marine Chapters. 

 

Personally I'm all for the God Legions being stand-alone codexs, but I agree.

 

I think if this is real, it's probably foreshadowing the various Marine spin-offs going back to full codexes with reprinted Tactical Squads and the like come 11th, rather than being supplements.

 

Edited yesterday at 11:27 AM by Lord Marshal

[DeadFingers]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

This was originally posted on The Grand Alliance forum by Boole, the individual who has previously leaked the contents of WHQ Darkwater (as well as some other stuff I think?) so they have at least some reliability behind them rather than being a rando TRUSTMEBRO

Some people I talk to say they've heard he had the contents of Skaventide right, but with his MO of deleting his own posts and TGA's rumour thread being now close to 8000 pages long, I haven't checked that far back. I value what little's left of my sanity. However, he has predicted a lot of specific things for Nurgle and Ogres in the AoS end of things just days before GW teased both factions, and the Darkwater leak confirmed plenty of those specific things he mentioned (pestigors, shaman, blightkings, maybe plague trolls). So at the very least he's on a good path to have a trustworthy track record, and hopefully this week's preview event will truly settle things one way or the other.

 

All that said, I don't know how much I believe, or want to believe this. I can believe parts of it, as Valrak has also mentioned Iron Warriors getting at least an upgrade sprue, and recently I believe he also mentioned Perturabo making a comeback. But a standalone Codex? I'm not so sure about that. If Iron Warriors leave the CSM Codex, and by extending that logic Word Bearers eventually do as well, the main Codex is going to feel rather empty all of a sudden. I could see a supplement, a la Trator Legions for 7th.

 

Unless there's a significant shift in direction of what the CSM Codex fundamentally is. They did add a good chunk of mortal followers of Chaos, they threw Vashtorr in there, and now there's rumours of Red Corsairs getting their own stuff. If that trend continues and the Codex eventually becomes something akin to "Traitors and Heretics" instead of "Chaos Space Marines" then I could see two of the Undivided Legions leaving. But a "Chaos Space Marines" Codex with just Black Legion, Night Lords and Alpha Legion under its banner? That feels a tad odd.

 

I will say this though. With the Cult Legions claiming independence, the CSM Codex could use a bit of a push in the character department for the Undivided Legions. So if they want to give us, say, Perty, Honsou, Kor Phaeron, the Harrowmaster, and, I don't know, the Painted Count? They'll be most welcome.

Edited yesterday at 11:22 AM by DeadFingers

[ZeroWolf]

Hmm this is something I thought might happen once it became clear that the god specific legions were heading their own books. Admitted I never put much thought if they should be a supplement over a full book. A supplement probably makes more sense in hindsight but that could still happen looking at the wording of the rumour?

 

Either way I think Alpha Legion and Word Bearers could follow suit when their primarchs could into play (seems chaos gets 1 every edition)

 

Leaves Night Lords in the cold however as Black Legion have their Primarch adjacent character already.

[TheMawr]

Remember that I pointed out in the 500 worlds threat GW themselves seemingly/possibly teased shontu coming in one of the Lysander articles.. and how weird shontu is compared to other more known Iron Warriors? This would actually make more sense of that.

 

However I'd think Vashtor will tag along if this is true as will the "dark mechanicus 40k rumors".. so it's a full mimic of the other 4 being seperate.

 

[Domhnall]

Actual proper, 100%, not in anyway fake leak of the Codex cover showing our man of optimism!

 

 

 

Thats one for the UK 80's kids

[TheVoidDragon]

26 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

Some people I talk to say they've heard he had the contents of Skaventide right, but with his MO of deleting his own posts and TGA's rumour thread being now close to 8000 pages long, I haven't checked that far back. I value what little's left of my sanity. However, he has predicted a lot of specific things for Nurgle and Ogres in the AoS end of things just days before GW teased both factions, and the Darkwater leak confirmed plenty of those specific things he mentioned (pestigors, shaman, blightkings, maybe plague trolls). So at the very least he's on a good path to have a trustworthy track record, and hopefully this week's preview event will truly settle things one way or the other.

 

 

 

I think there's a quite a big difference between predicting the context of a box announced a relatively short while later, and claiming things about the design team, codex changes, and big releases far in advance, really. Getting a release like Skaventide or Darkwater right indicates there's some credibility, but that may very well just be something relatively simple like having seen the box in a warehouse or something like that, it's a big leap from that to things like "40k kits have been cancelled because Age of Sigmar is more important, the design team has been moved!" or "Next edition they're changing the Chaos Codex because Iron Warriors are becoming a faction" etc where it implies more than surface level knowledge. Deleting his posts so no-one can go back and check them later on is just a bit strange too. 

[Xin Ceithan]

I just realized the B&C  lacks a proper IW reaction  button to posts ( in proper black / yellow striping ) that says :

 

“I’d be over the moon for this , but my bitter heart has been in this trench so long I do not dare to hope and I am way busy killing loyalists anyway, so …” 

 

[Waaagh?]

Hope they don't tbh. I think these characters work better in the background. Primarchs are less special to the 40k lore the more they bring back to the forefront. Doubly so for the loyalists I feel.

 

 

 

 

[Rain]

Being spun off into an independent book is a double edged sword. While having your own unique kits, units, and multiple detachments all of which represent your Legion is great, GW gives very little support to spinoff Chaos factions.

Thousand Sons have only received a single new squad in the ~10 years they’ve been spun off. World Eaters Lords forgot how to walk, or don Terminator armor.  Emperor’s Children lost so much that they have fewer total datasheets than loyalists have different Primaris Lieutenants (this is a joke, probably).

 

So, be careful what you wish for. I’d hate to read the bitter rambling manifestos of IW players when the monkey’s paw that runs GW inexplicably cuts random units.

[TempestBlade]

I would vote for the legions to stay in the CSM book, but give them some named characters and special units. Just like the vanilla SM chapters: own detachment and a named character or two goes a long way

[Redcomet]

Beyond Big P himself I can’t see what would warrant an entire codex for IW that can’t be covered by the main CSM codex. Use the release of Big P to bring new multipart obliterators, Land Raider and Hellbrute. They don’t need a swathe of bespoke units

[Lord Abaia]

I could see the legions working better as codex supplements like BA, DA, SW, and BT. But honestly, just cram them all in the main codex.

 

My main thing I'm curious about is addressing the lore of a non-big 4 daemon primarch. GW have removed undivided princes from the lore, with the in-world justification being that Be'Lakor was such a jerk that they vowed never to make such an uncontrolable daemon prince again. So how did Perturabo ascend? Are they going to tie him to Vashtorr? With the non-causality of events in the warp, it would be possible for Vashotorr to elevate Perturabo before he ascends to become a chaos god.

 

But that raises questions about Lorgar? He really was all about chaos as a pantheon, I can't see him devoting himself to one god at the expense of the others. Maybe this will be addressed in the Scouring books.

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Beyond Big P himself I can’t see what would warrant an entire codex for IW that can’t be covered by the main CSM codex. Use the release of Big P to bring new multipart obliterators, Land Raider and Hellbrute. They don’t need a swathe of bespoke units

I really want a new Helbrute kit with Cult Legion specific build options. Just spitballing, but big top mounted plague launcher for DG, psyker dread for TS, dual chainfists for WE, and sonic dread for EC (also putting HB back into EC).

[Burni]

Return of the Basilisk!

 

They could really save themselves some studio time and just rebox some 30k stuff for this, if they weren't apparently allergic to doing so...

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, Burni said:

Return of the Basilisk!

 

They could really save themselves some studio time and just rebox some 30k stuff for this, if they weren't apparently allergic to doing so...

Wouldn’t be their first about face. I still recall when GW had dug in their heels about Chaos all being mixed “warbands”, with the Legions having no unique special units or rules of any kind, and then doubled down on this when they tried pushing the “Crimson Slaughter” as the new poster faction for Chaos.
 

This went on from 4th until the Traitor Legions supplement in 7th. As could be predicted by anyone but the most slavish of apologists and contrary of contrarians, Crimson Slaughter proved about as popular as flip flops in Siberia relative to the Legions, so here we are.

Edited 22 hours ago by Rain

[Dudley Nightshade]

Thousand Sons got those (kind of weird) automata in 40K. Iron Warriors have an awesome-looking automata model in 30K that could be ported over as a unique unit. I guess it would have to look different, though, because they don't cross pollenate. 

[LSM]

Iron Opinion: ehhhh.... I mean, I guess I wouldn't say no. I'd rather Codex: CSM remain "the Undivided book" though - add a couple characters for each of the Legions, and that sounds good to me.

 

In order to justify itself, I'd expect a full "Codex: Iron Warriors" to be pulling double duty as a New Mechanicum book - taking Vashtorr and adding some new non-Astartes infantry and Daemon Engines (while shedding certain units, like Dark Apostles and Possessed). Which will potentially be annoying for a number of CSM players (both people losing access to old units, and people not getting access to new ones). I think I'd rather a Codex: Lost and the Damned that combines all the non-CSM stuff (Traitor Guard, Cultists, Beastmen, BadMech, etc.) and then has easy-allying rules for Codex: CSM. (Hell - throw the Daemons in there too, if they're not going to be properly integrated into the Cult Legion books.)

 

Though... if we get a kit of the 2002 description of Iron Warriors' Possessed ("...they harness bound Daemonic energies to power an array of cybernetic enhancements...") I'd be pretty happy. Bring on the mad, viking-horned, techno-mutant cyber-monstrosities. 

 

Wouldn't say no to new characters either, though things like generic Terminator Lord/Sorcerer kits would be higher on my list than the Warsmith Shon'tu's of the galaxy.

 

(Minor character shoutout to Master Chengrel from the excellent short story The Masters, Bidding. A head in a jar, housed in a giant four-legged Dreadnought.)

 

//

 

I was expecting an upgrade kit for Legionaries with subsequent pdf rules (à la Nemesis Claw). If it had a Lascannon and Autocannon, they could have 2-in-5 Heavy Weapons, etc. and some ability to make Bolters a worthwhile build.

 

Back in 3rd, Night Lords and Iron Warriors were the ones with metal upgrades and characters (though it's questionable whether we need a Warsmith model again, now that Warpsmiths exist). As such, it makes a certain amount of sense for them to get such things once more. 

 

//

 

If I were to spin anyone out of Codex: CSM, it'd be the Red Corsairs. If done in the fashion of Huron Blackheart's 2nd edition rules (where the Red Corsairs took equipment, vehicles, and Terminators from Codex: Ultramarines instead of Codex: Chaos), that would justify being their own book.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by LSM

[Mogger351]

42 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Beyond Big P himself I can’t see what would warrant an entire codex for IW that can’t be covered by the main CSM codex. Use the release of Big P to bring new multipart obliterators, Land Raider and Hellbrute. They don’t need a swathe of bespoke units

The problem is two-fold.

 

Firstly a lot of units that might give them character have already been propagated to generic csm. Disco lord, warpsmiths, oblits, arguably the defiler and vashtorr.

 

Secondly the same is true in reality of almost loyalist chapters, people see a *need* for some units purely due to historic precedent when they were previously a none existant kit or invented mcguffin.

 

So being a pessimist, worst case is that a load of generic CSM units end up being taken out of that range to build this one. I sort of feel it would be justified as well to some degree.

[sitnam]

Breaking out more warbands/legions from CSM is a massive mistake. We've already seen how poorly supported the non-Death Guard have been, and the loss of units the marked units should have. This would make sense to split off Iron Warriors if a Dark Mech codex becomes a thing, and even this is a stretch

Edited 22 hours ago by sitnam

[Orange Knight]

Whilst I have no issue with this if it's true, and a Perty model would be awesome for 40k, I really feel that GW need to further support the existing divergent Legions.

 

The World Eaters, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children need more models for their ranges - unqiue Vehicles, Dreads, more infanry options, etc etc etc

[NorthernUltramarines]

I can see it happening in the same way that Dark Angels have their own codex, as a supplement to Space Marines. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of more factions having supplements, especially as it gives us room for more flavour and special units. Adding in a Primarch, a named and a generic character, and a new unit or two probably justifies a supplement for Iron Warriors, plus gives them access to all of the current CSM range. 

 

I do think the four god codexes need some of the original CSM units adding back in personally, just a couple to buff their roster out a bit. The odd tank, possessed, or chosen unit wouldn't go amiss.

 

Also as an avid crusade player it would be nice to see more armies get special crusade rules!