The Scouring Ashes of the Imperium Chris Wraith

[The Scorpion]

I am of the opinion that all Primarchs are delusional. All the criticisms are valid. I'm starting to get why the Custodians and some humans dislike these creatures:

 

Dorn is delusional about his chances of finishing off the traitors. The struggle at Luna and Perturabo's fleet acrobatics proves that the Scouring is going to be a long slog, not a mop-up operation. He is also failing to adress the needs of the new Imperium (keep Emps alive with the Black Ships, for a start) and is playing into the traitors hand. He would have fallen for the Word Bearers esoteric plan were it not because Perturabo happened to be doing his own unrelated thing and unkowingly saved his arse, but as we all know, he will eventually go on to make other blunders.

 

Guilliman is delusional about how clearly others are willing to see things. He is correct in his priority assesments but he has defaulted to a toxic utilitarianism where he basically strong-arms everyone to do his will regardless of what they think or how they feel, and gaslights everyone. The survivors of the Siege can't stand this. By the end, they were holding the tide of traitors on things like faith and principle. Reality had collapsed: there were traitors on the sanctum even though they never breached the very last wall. Guilliman never bothers to go down to the realm of grief and symbolism and meaning. Could he even do it? The symbolic parades he stages are pragmatic and self-serving, not the quiet recognition that the survivors deserve.

 

I also stand with the Warsmith: whatever big brain plan Perturabo cooked, it will fail. I don't care how much experience he has or how much thinking he did, his warpmastering idea cannot succeed. But then again, these gigabrain reasonings that produce a regarded output are very like the Primarchs to have. Let's not forget this whole mess began when Lorgar did a 1000 IQ philosophy exercice that concluded that Chaos was good.

 

Though they are their own people, these mofos are all sons of the Emperor, and they often lean into that part of themselves to find the way ahead. But we all know how the Emperor's dream went.

 

Sidenote: I think Chaos lies to everyone but for some reason tells the Truth to the Word Bearers, because they always draw the wrong conclusions. They always try what is best for Chaos, even when Chaos itself cannot conceive of the course of action that best benefits it, being an unconcious storm of energy and all.

[Blood Angel Scout]

Still need to go back for another read through but with regards to comments about the relationship between the Emperor and the Throne, I'd taken it as only the Sisters of Silence who recognised the need for the Unspoken Sanction to keep it going, told Guiliman this and can only think because of how precarious it is, he hasn't explained this to the rest of his brothers as to why Luna is essential first. As to why, either he hasn't realised the severity or he does know exactly and is avoiding even the slightest of chance of the Emperor's current state being revealed to anyone, due to concern how his brothers or rest of the population will react if the truth gets out. 

[lansalt]

18 minutes ago, Blood Angel Scout said:

 avoiding even the slightest of chance of the Emperor's current state being revealed to anyone, due to concern how his brothers or rest of the population will react if the truth gets out. 

The book is great, but this doesn't make sense to me. Both Dorn and Vulkan were right there when it all happened, and they were well aware of what was going on, and so did the last of Malcador's Chosen. Not just the AdMech and the Sisters of Silence.

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

I just realised why I kept feeling so off about the Luna stuff in Ashes. Not 'bad' off, but like I'd seen/felt it somewhere before. It's Spear of Ultramar - which even features a mixed Iron Warriors/Word Bearers force (and Guilliman playing politics, naturally)! I wonder if Wraight took any inspiration from that: putting the two works side-by-side, there's a lot of cross-pollination (and I would argue that Annandale did it better, but I'm a shameless Annandale stan, so my opinion can't be trusted). 

[Blood Angel Scout]

On 12/27/2025 at 4:15 PM, lansalt said:

The book is great, but this doesn't make sense to me. Both Dorn and Vulkan were right there when it all happened, and they were well aware of what was going on, and so did the last of Malcador's Chosen. Not just the AdMech and the Sisters of Silence.

 

Dorn is only in the Throne room to join the Emperor in the final stand before teleporting to the Vengeful Spirit so hasn't really seen it. Vulkan was there to support Malcador on the Throne when the Sanction was used, only time previously was when the Emperor goes into the Webway in the Master of Mankind and left the Throne so quite possible many haven't realised the Emperor needs them now. Or to put it another way, to me, if the other primarchs did know, that is necessary to feed psykers to keep the Emperor/Throne functional, to do so, the Black Ships need to go and collect psykers to fuel it, then surely there would've been unanimous agreement to take back Luna so that process would begin immediately? 

 

Also, the Admech aren't going to admit they can't fix it, the Chosen are out of the loop until the later stages of the novel and Hassan has the opportunity to tell Amon, when going for Malcador's remains, but more importantly, if he knew the Sanction was needed. Main problem is no one else who's still around really knows how the Throne works other than the Emperor, which is still a plot point into 40K present day 

[Waaagh?]

I knew it was coming given the way IW are in 40k but maaaaan I'm disappointed in Perturabo. 

[darkhorse0607]

Finished this last night, I know I'm late but I wanted to read Archmagos and finish Harrowmaster first. 

 

I would have named this "Warhammer The Scouring: Ashes of the Imperium because Primarchs wont go to Therapy or talk like normal people" 

 

I have mixed feelings. Spoiler discussion below to respect those who haven't read it yet, but I would say 6-7ish out of 10? I feel like this is the Wraight novel I've enjoyed the least, but I also think that has to do with bad preconceived notions as to what I thought it would be (or wanted it to be) versus what it actually was. It's a big task to try and wrangle things from the Siege and set it up to move forward, and I think that is more or less accomplished.

 

I do wonder if things got cut by the editors though. I have zero evidence of this, but normally Wraight is pretty thorough with his novels and it seems as though there are some gaps here. I can't tell if that was on purpose to leave it open to other authors, or if it was cut. 

 

Ok spoilers ahead

 

Spoiler

-Overall, I liked the Traitor side of the novel. I think picking Word Bearers and Iron Warriors for the main focus was a solid choice with their opposing beliefs/viewpoints. Until the resolution of that arc, I found that I was actually looking forwards to those sections more than the loyalist ones because it just felt more interesting. The SoH apothecary was also decent I thought, it gave a balance to the other more introspective characters, with having him just go full into the self-destructive, try to kill everything side

 

I will say this though, I do not love the how it resolved with Perturabo. Perturabo leaving during the Siege? Sure. I get it. Perturabo ranting to himself as he leaves the system in EatD? Sure, ok. Perturabo saying "Oh lets go ahead and do this warp thing after all we have seen, which I know I've been against at every turn up until now, but you know, yolo, I'm better, etc." Why? It literally just makes him a metallic Mortarion. Of all the directions they could've gone to make Perturabo interesting post-Siege, I feel like this was the worst one

 

-The whole Guilliman side to this kind of threw me. I dunno, I feel like the primarch portrayals in general weren't great, but it is what it is. I understand that Wraight did this to give some build-up to the Codex confrontation, but at the same time given that we know of the lengths Gulliman went through in Imperium Secundus to avoid the image of trying to make himself appear like the new Emperor and now he's the one who won't say a word to any of the other Primarchs about his reasoning, or reassure them in the slightest. Again, like I said earlier, I understand why it was done (also probably to shorten the distance between Heresy Guilliman with Imperium Secundus, and 40k Guilliman), but I don't think the execution was great. I fully expect a later book to tackle this, but given that this is the first one of the series, I wish it would've given 50 pages or so more to cover Guilliman's side rather than what you see from Hassan 

 

-To roll into my previous point, one thing I kept coming back to over and over, was why it had to be all or none. All of the political tension could have been solved if either 

A) Guilliman had said "You know Rogal, ol' Chap, you go ahead with the Imperial Fists, remnants of the Blood Angels, and the Dark Angels and charge ahead. Russ, you can have Mars. I believe it's in my legion's interest to rebuild the Throneworld and take Luna due to our numbers/logistics"

or

B) Guilliman tells the Primarchs what the deal is with the Throne, again he volunteers to take Luna to get the Black Ships up and running, the rest of the legions either go to Mars or Crusade

 

Even if it doesn't sway Dorn, Vulkan has seen how the Throne works/the sacrifice so there's a possibility there, and it would probably have swayed either the Lion or Russ. 

If Dorn doesn't like it or believe it ("something something, why didn't they tell me?") then you can ask him why he was being such a dummy in the post-Siege time and not letting anyone bring anything to his attention which is explicitly outlined at the beginning of the book. They went to Guilliman because they had to, Dorn wouldn't speak to them. I get that Dorn is going through the Trauma of the Siege (could've just gone out to take people's lunch money like Vulkan but whatever) but it just seems as it's 

"GUILLIMAN IS GOING TO TAKE CONTROL HOW DARE HE REBUILD TERRA WE SHOULD LEAVE IT IN SHAMBLES AND GO KILL THINGS"

"Ok so do you want to be in charge? Or take control of anything? Or help?"
"NO"

"So someone has to be in charge? Why not Guilliman since no one else is stepping up?"
"HOW DARE YOU! I CANT BELIEVE GUILLIMAN IS TAKING OVER"

etc

 

It didn't even have to be Guilliman, when Dorn, the Lion and Russ were meeting and Dorn starts talking about the tyrant Guilliman, the Lion could've told him about Imperium Secundus, and how Guilliman didn't want to be Emperor, etc. But nope

 

-Name dropping M'Shen was a nice touch at the end

 

-Justice for Raldoron who still gets nothing

 

-If the Hassan/Sisters plot goes the way I think it's going to (Guilliman leaves/goes to sleep, Hassan goes after the Sisters and that's why they get exiled), then that'll tie that arc together fairly nicely.

 

-Wraight did get a gigantic "Finally" from me when the Lion tells Dorn to slow his roll, and that while the Siege was obviously bad, it wasn't the only war in town and to stop blaming everyone else for not being there.  

 

 

All in all, it was ok. Not terrible, just not what I wanted which is fine. I do think it did well to set things up moving forwards, even if I don't agree with the choices the book makes.

 

The discord around the book online of the screeching about Guilliman being a traitor is getting old though. It's another "I'm going to read this summary or watch this video and then make my judgement around that" and it's like nails on a chalkboard

Edited January 9 by darkhorse0607

[Nagashsnee]

13 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

The discord around the book online of the screeching about Guilliman being a traitor is getting old though. It's another "I'm going to read this summary or watch this video and then make my judgement around that" and it's like nails on a chalkboard

 

The word traitor has heavy conotations in warhammer and is certainly not the right word to use. But even a summary of the key points of the book paint a very poor picture of Guilliman, unless of course they like you leave out some pretty key revelation for their description.

 

Spoiler

Namely he from the get go subverted any chance of actual co operation, open and honest discussion and employed blackmail, bribery and threat of force to enforce his views as he knew HE HAD THE LOSING ARGUMENT. 

 

While evert single Primarch as you rightly said acts in a bad light, untill some future book shows us differently ONLY Guilliman can be accused, wait no not accused we know for a fact he did it, only Guilliman acted in bad faith and immediately lied to and  betrayed his brothers.  Now you can argue he did it for the right reasons, or he was forced to, but he did do it.

 

Was it very 40k to do? Sure. Would someone else have tried it given time/resources? Incredibly likely! Does it change who actually did it? No, no it does not.  And we know where it all leads in regards to the council/high lords of terra. 

 

I would add i 100% agree with you in that a comprimise between the two sides could have been reached, but that requires good faith and the desire to actually comprimise. The book gave Ultramarine fans allot to be happy with, but it also KILLED stone cold dead, any notion of Good guy Guilliman, he is firmly in the Roman Emperor in all but name and will drown you in wine because he promised he wont drown you in water era.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Nagashsnee

[wecanhaveallthree]

>Perturabo characterisation rolled back before Slaves to Darkness

 

>Guilliman characterisation rolled back before Ruinstorm

 

>The Lion pretends that Dreadwing didn't happen (or Ruinstorm or - hey, what happened to Sev, anyway?)

 

>Russ wholly unconcerned with the doom of Wolfsbane

 

>Dorn forgot all about his time in the desert

 

hashtag notmyheresy

[Roomsky]

>Perturabo characterisation rolled back before Slaves to Darkness
Good sir, that happened in The Lost and the Damned.

 

>Guilliman characterisation rolled back before Ruinstorm

His behaviour is pretty in-line with someone goal-oriented walking into a giant personal tragedy.

 

>The Lion and Russ

They already did some brotherly therapy (read: stabbing) and recovered themselves a bit.

 

>Dorn forgot all about his time in the desert
Good sir, that happened in The End and the Death.

All carries on from where the Heresy ended believably to me!

Edited January 11 by Roomsky
Edit: Book titles are hard.

[Ubiquitous1984]

I really enjoyed listening to this - I wasn’t a huge fan of Warhawk but for me, this was Wraight back to his best.  He writes Terran politics better than any other BL author IMO and Terran politics is so much more compelling than Bolter porn.  
 

I am disappointed in myself that I completely forgot about Xanthus’ true identity.  It’s only from reading this post that it made sense, despite reading all of TEATD.

 

Does anyone else here struggle to remember who characters are and what their plot lines are?  I find myself feeling regretful that I can’t remember who all the names are, despite reading the entirety of the HH.  Was the main Salamander’s warrior from another story (Fury of Magnus perhaps?).  What was the Ultramarines librarian who worked with the Salamander’s backstory?  The name was familiar but I couldn’t remember where from.  
 

With the lore being so massive, and with it only ever getting bigger, I wish GW would have a central lore depository (like an official wiki) that could help us keep track.  

Edited January 14 by Ubiquitous1984

[Nagashsnee]

19 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

 

I am disappointed in myself that I completely forgot about Xanthus’ true identity.  It’s only from reading this post that it made sense, despite reading all of TEATD.

 

Does anyone else here struggle to remember who characters are and what their plot lines are?  I find myself feeling regretful that I can’t remember who all the names are, despite reading the entirety of the HH.  Was the main Salamander’s warrior from another story (Fury of Magnus perhaps?).  What was the Ultramarines librarian who worked with the Salamander’s backstory?  The name was familiar but I couldn’t remember where from.  
 

With the lore being so massive, and with it only ever getting bigger, I wish GW would have a central lore depository (like an official wiki) that could help us keep track.  

 

All the time, especially when its a sequel or follow up to a book that came out years ago. 

 

Like for real when pandemonium drops, without a re read who honestly remembers all the plot points of the Bequin series, which itself relies on the build up in books that came out and you may have read DECADES ago.  

 

 

[Ubiquitous1984]

5 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

All the time, especially when its a sequel or follow up to a book that came out years ago. 

 

Like for real when pandemonium drops, without a re read who honestly remembers all the plot points of the Bequin series, which itself relies on the build up in books that came out and you may have read DECADES ago.  

 

 

Glad it’s not just me - I’m sure it’s not an issue unique only to the GW IP, but I honestly can’t think of a lore are vast as this particular universe.  It struggles under its own weight at times and if I, a person who has invested thousands of hours consuming the HH struggle to keep track, how would a new person fair who is new to the setting?

Edited January 14 by Ubiquitous1984