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17 hours ago, TiguriusX said:

It's the maps/missions that determine our success in 11th

 

Learn how to maximize the new hidden mechanic and how to score your primary.  Denying opponent primary scoring is not as easy as it was in 10th edition 

 

I now believe 4x5 GHs using veterans detachment is powerful and likely a must take for us as a faction 

 

4 turns of 15 OC who can advance/fallback and still perform an action (never shooting though...keep hidden)

 

GHs are how we control/contest the central objective

 

GHs should perform well in any force disposition except purge by helping in the middle and being action monkeys wirh mobility 

 

That leaves you flexibility to fill in the remainder of your army and detachment/disposition as you please

 

Can't wait to see armies and battle recaps being shared from you all 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I should be having my first learn to play 11th games down our club this weekend.

 

Initial plan is running 30 GH, just as I have the models and theyre deserving a run out. Going to use the first 20 to split into 4x5 and then use 1 squad of 10 with the battle leader and shooty enhancement as a late game ingress option. Not sure the 10 is worth it but I had success with them last edition as a late game reserve once the battlefield is cleared a bit. Fillin out the rest of the list with headtakers, 2x scouts and maybe even a bloodclaw unit to have some early adv+charge threat....but definately wary that sending anything up early is going to probably end up with them dead haha.

Just noticed that Divergent Chapters get Repulsor Executioners 10 points cheaper than vanilla marines (230 vs 240). In the case of Blood Angels, it is to balance that they pay extra for melee specialists like Assault Intercessors and BGVs.

 

So does this mean that we are paying a premium somewhere else for some codex units?

It's possible we are I haven't noticed any thing being more expensive for us though. Granted we weren't exactly setting the world on fire either. I also just noticed that Intercessers get a 10-point discount for squads of ten :wallbash:. Really hoping @TiguriusX is right that the detachment is good cause they shouldn't be 15 points cheaper than grey hunters. I just want grey hunters to be good lol.

24 minutes ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

I also just noticed that Intercessers get a 10-point discount for squads of ten

 

Probably to account for the fact that you still only get one special melee weapon the Serg, even in a 10-man squad.

2 hours ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

It's possible we are I haven't noticed any thing being more expensive for us though. Granted we weren't exactly setting the world on fire either. I also just noticed that Intercessers get a 10-point discount for squads of ten :wallbash:. Really hoping @TiguriusX is right that the detachment is good cause they shouldn't be 15 points cheaper than grey hunters. I just want grey hunters to be good lol.

 

That discount doesnt bother me bc

I dont see the purpose in taking 10 Intercessors for most SM lists (DA with Azrael leading sometimes does it)

 

The value comes from being cheap 5 man MSU who have useful shooting and sticky 

 

And unless there is a rule I dont know you cant split a 10 man Intercessor into two 5 man squads as needed.

 

With 10 GHs and the veteran detachment we get to split them into two separate 5 man 15 OC MSU squads who can advance and do actions

 

 

I'm pretty ok with most of our points. Not the greatest things i've ever seen but nice to see wolf scouts down a bit and at least cheaper options on some things if you leave the shields at home (although you still probably take shields 9/10 times so they stay about the same) 

time to brew some lists. If purge ends up the defacto go to meta disposition I am second guessing msu disruption lists but idk, will just have to see how the dice roll 

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Probably to account for the fact that you still only get one special melee weapon the Serg, even in a 10-man squad.

 

Right but I can only take one special weapon in grey hunter squad. In fairness I felt that sticky was a lot better than OC3 in 10th, and I'd rather have ranged AP-1 than melee AP-1, so I just view intercessors as the better unit. The re-roll wound ability when an enemy is in an objective and with how important hidden feels that may change.  Tigurius is right though that even with the discount most people wouldn't take 10-man intercessor squads. It just frustrates me because I don't see a gameplay reason to take grey hunters unless I take a certain detachment. Technically that's an improvement because I couldn't justify the 10-man squad with any of the detachment options we've had to this point, but it doesn't feel good. 

 

I'll drop it for a while to see how things shake out, I just needed to vent when I saw it. I just want grey hunters to make sense in most forces not in just in specific ones.

 

 

Now that we have official points etc. why don't we share and get all our creative ideas flowing...here are the next 2 lists I intend on testing (sat/sun I have a few scrimmages lined up)
*Disclaimer...when I play SW lists I always try to maximize SW unique units/rules

 

Also...I think Bjorn with helfrost and parked right behind your expansion is gonna be standard SW play.  He can overwatch and torrent any small fast infantry that try to out OC you or he can heroic anything that charges on to try and kill your expansion holders.

 

List A tests out GHs as the SW specific action monkey (can pick Priority or Disruption...I don't know what is better yet...will try Priority first)

Spoiler
11th Headhunting and GHs (1990 points)
 
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Strike Force (2000 points)
Headhunter Task Force and Veterans of the Fang (3 Detachment Points)
Force Dispositions: Disruption, Priority Assets
 
 
CHARACTERS
 
Bjorn the Fell-Handed (160 points)
  • Warlord
  • 1x Heavy flamer
    1x Helfrost cannon
    1x Trueclaw
 
Iron Priest (55 points)
  • 1x Helfrost pistol
    1x Tempest hammer and servo-arm
 
Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (85 points)
  • 1x Combi-weapon
    1x Paired combat blades
 
Logan Grimnar (110 points)
  • 1x Axe Morkai
    1x Storm bolter
    1x Tyrnak and Fenrir
 
Predator Annihilator (155 points)
  • Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    2x Lascannon
    1x Predator twin lascannon
    1x Storm bolter
  • Enhancement: Gunnery Honours
 
Vindicator (225 points)
  • Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Demolisher cannon
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Storm bolter
  • Enhancement: Astartes Tank Ace (Aura)
 
Vindicator (205 points)
  • Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Demolisher cannon
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Storm bolter
  • Enhancement: Firestorm Coordinators
 
 
BATTLELINE
 
Grey Hunters (165 points)
  • 1x Grey Hunter Pack Leader
    • 1x Bolt carbine
      1x Bolt pistol
      1x Power fist
  • 9x Grey Hunter
    • 9x Astartes chainsword
      9x Bolt carbine
      9x Bolt pistol
 
Grey Hunters (165 points)
  • 1x Grey Hunter Pack Leader
    • 1x Bolt carbine
      1x Bolt pistol
      1x Power fist
  • 9x Grey Hunter
    • 9x Astartes chainsword
      9x Bolt carbine
      9x Bolt pistol
 
 
OTHER DATASHEETS
 
Fenrisian Wolves (45 points)
  • 5x Fenrisian Wolf
    • 5x Teeth and claws
 
Fenrisian Wolves (45 points)
  • 5x Fenrisian Wolf
    • 5x Teeth and claws
 
Predator Destructor (140 points)
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    2x Heavy bolter
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Predator autocannon
    1x Storm bolter
 
Predator Destructor (140 points)
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    2x Heavy bolter
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Predator autocannon
    1x Storm bolter
 
Repulsor Executioner (230 points)
  • 1x Armoured hull
    1x Heavy laser destroyer
    1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon
    1x Icarus rocket pod
    1x Ironhail heavy stubber
    1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array
    1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber
    1x Twin heavy bolter
 
Scout Squad (65 points)
  • 1x Scout Sergeant
    • 1x Astartes chainsword
      1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Scout
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Combat knife
 
 
Primary Detachment is Headhunter Task Force because I believe 11th is a mobile shooting meta.  
This gives all my vehicles auto advance 6"
I have an enhancement that gives assault within 6"
Combine those and my vehicles can get where they need to toe in terrain for LOS and blast away
Detachment also gives full damage reroll if you don' t advance.  That means vindicators get to address their worst trait (random D6 damage)
 
Other cool stuff...the annihilator with enhancement is basically a gladiator lancer on steroids
With Iron priest rapid fire for main gun I have 3 S14 weapons capable of rerolling wound and damage rolls...just give oath to hit
 
And don't sleep on the machine vengeance stratagem....if anyone fires at and fails to kill a vehicle I can spend 1 CP and return fire immediately (RepEx excluded)
 
 
So...the vehicles in this list do the fighting and heavy lifting
2 destructors + RepEx to hit incoming infantry
2 vindicators + annihilator to hit enemy monsters/vehicles
 
The GHs do the actions and objective contesting with 15 OC per MSU...they can also spot targets and add detection range if needed for the vehicles
 
No idea how it will perform...but I like the lethality on paper
My personal goal is for my list to threaten 5 big knights playing purge
 

 

 

 

List B tests out the SW specific terminator detachment for Take and Hold

Spoiler

Headhunter Saga of Song (Take and Hold) (1995 points)

 
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Strike Force (2000 points)
Headhunter Task Force and Legends of Saga and Song (3 Detachment Points)
Force Dispositions: Priority Assets, Take and Hold
 
 
CHARACTERS
 
Arjac Rockfist (105 points)
  • 1x Foehammer
 
Bjorn the Fell-Handed (160 points)
  • Warlord
  • 1x Heavy flamer
    1x Helfrost cannon
    1x Trueclaw
 
Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (85 points)
  • 1x Combi-weapon
    1x Paired combat blades
 
Logan Grimnar (110 points)
  • 1x Axe Morkai
    1x Storm bolter
    1x Tyrnak and Fenrir
 
Vindicator (225 points)
  • Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Demolisher cannon
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Storm bolter
  • Enhancement: Astartes Tank Ace (Aura)
 
Vindicator (205 points)
  • Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Demolisher cannon
    1x Hunter-killer missile
    1x Storm bolter
  • Enhancement: Firestorm Coordinators
 
 
OTHER DATASHEETS
 
Fenrisian Wolves (45 points)
  • 5x Fenrisian Wolf
    • 5x Teeth and claws
 
Infiltrator Squad (110 points)
  • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
    • 1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
      1x Marksman bolt carbine
  • 4x Infiltrator
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      1x Helix Gauntlet
      1x Infiltrator Comms Array
      4x Marksman bolt carbine
 
Scout Squad (65 points)
  • 1x Scout Sergeant
    • 1x Astartes chainsword
      1x Bolt pistol
      1x Close combat weapon
  • 4x Scout
    • 4x Bolt pistol
      4x Close combat weapon
      4x Combat knife
 
Terminator Assault Squad (170 points)
  • Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
  • 1x Assault Terminator Sergeant
    • 1x Twin lightning claws
  • 4x Assault Terminator
    • 4x Twin lightning claws
 
Terminator Assault Squad (170 points)
  • Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
  • 1x Assault Terminator Sergeant
    • 1x Twin lightning claws
  • 4x Assault Terminator
    • 4x Twin lightning claws
 
Wolf Guard Terminators (175 points)
  • Enhancement: Fierce Example (Upgrade)
  • 1x Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader
    • 1x Relic greataxe
  • 4x Wolf Guard Terminator
    • 4x Master-crafted power weapon
      4x Storm bolter
 
Wolf Guard Terminators (370 points)
  • Enhancement: Fierce Example (Upgrade)
  • 1x Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader
    • 1x Relic greataxe
  • 9x Wolf Guard Terminator
    • 2x Assault cannon
      7x Master-crafted power weapon
      2x Power fist
      7x Storm Shield
 
 
Leaning heavily into the terminators and our special detachment here
 
Take and Hold is all about holding your expansion and the middle...the rest is whatever
 
The assault terminators get OC+1 per model (10 OC per MSU) and their job is dig in...they touch objectives...hide and go to ground and force enemies in close
If someone puts a horde of OC on the objective then you go and wolverine the crap out of them to clear it and regain control
 
The fighting force of this detachment is 2 vindicators and 1 brick of WG with Arjac
Vindicators have the same strengths as discussed above
And we know a brick of Arjac and friends can do their fair share of damage as well...they rapid ingress in (gotta touch terrain and be hidden though)
I don't have lance or lethals...so the primary job is tarpit and annoy rather than outright delete things...these guys pushing enemy expansion or home can't be ignored though
 
The worst thing I predict is that this list has a single minded and repetitive play style

 

I got two games in yesterday, both against Chaos, I went 1-1. The app does have the tactical secondaries on it, and a way to draw random cards which was a nice surprise. I ordered the cards, and I still think I'll prefer them because they'll be right in front of me. You do have to manually update the app, and you and your opponent can enter different vp totals which is kind of annoying. It also seemed to log me out a fair a bit, but I was using the free version and there probably were a ton of people playing. I tried both the take & hold and the disruption mission against purge.

 

I had logan with a squad of 5 WGTs and really think going up to 15-20 termies might make sense if you're going take & hold (I only have 5, but I was already planning on getting more once I finish painting my new stuff). Disruption felt rough though, granted my secondary draws were meh.. My wolf scouts had rough games, but I felt like I had to get something on the center of the table ASAP, and they were my best option. Purge just puts you on a clock, I really don't mind the urgency but it wouldn't shock me if it gets tuned down a bit.. I'm going to try Bastion next, but it'll probably be a couple of weeks.  

I had 2 games against different GK purge lists with a version of List A above

 

Went 1-1

 

I could definitely feel the pressure of having to fight AND do action when facing a purge list

 

In both my post game chats I was told am still playing with a 10th mindset and spreading out and doing secondary cards etc. 

 

Instead I need to focus on my specific primary scoring

 

Slowly but surely...gotta learn the nuances of 11th

If you plan on shooting you better bring a source of ignore cover

 

I've added a hammerstrike to all my lists

 

There are units out there capable of getting both COVER and -1 to hit...that means ballistic skill 3 marines hit on 5s

GKs are 1 example with this combo using GrandMaster Voldus in a squad of paladins standing on terrain

 

 

I tested a Take/Hold 30 terminator list...the idea was durable and tons of OC

 

I was 1st company task force + Legends of Saga

 

Used assault terminators + Thirst for Glory (OC+1)

Attached an ancient in terminator armor to them (OC+1)

 

I had OC3 terminators...with 1st company task force I could sticky and do -1 dmg if I got charged

 

None of that mattered...I still ended up losing terminators in droves and was basically tabled by turn 3 in my test game

 

Without guns to scare my opponent away I was just target practice.

 

 

Felt like I was a punching bag and waiting for things to happen to me...hated the entire experience

 

Going back to my headhunter task force + legends of saga test list (priority assets disposition).  At least I am actually winning games with that list

 

Spoiler

Headhunter Saga of Song 2.0 (1990 points)

Space Marines
Space Wolves
Strike Force (2000 points)
Headhunter Task Force and Legends of Saga and Song (3 Detachment Points)
Force Dispositions: Priority Assets, Take and Hold


CHARACTERS

Bjorn the Fell-Handed (160 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Heavy flamer
1x Helfrost cannon
1x Trueclaw

Gladiator Lancer (180 points)
• Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Lancer laser destroyer
2x Storm bolter
• Enhancement: Gunnery Honours

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (85 points)
• 1x Combi-weapon
1x Paired combat blades

Vindicator (225 points)
• Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher cannon
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Storm bolter
• Enhancement: Astartes Tank Ace (Aura)

Vindicator (205 points)
• Headhunter Task Force Keywords: Character
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher cannon
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Storm bolter
• Enhancement: Firestorm Coordinators


OTHER DATASHEETS

Firestrike Servo-turrets (150 points)
• 2x Firestrike Servo-turret
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Twin Firestrike las-talon

Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Combat knife

Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Combat knife

Storm Speeder Hammerstrike (130 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Hammerstrike missile launcher
2x Krakstorm grenade launcher
1x Melta destroyer

Terminator Assault Squad (170 points)
• Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
• 1x Assault Terminator Sergeant
• 1x Twin lightning claws
• 4x Assault Terminator
• 4x Twin lightning claws

Terminator Assault Squad (170 points)
• Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
• 1x Assault Terminator Sergeant
• 1x Twin lightning claws
• 4x Assault Terminator
• 4x Twin lightning claws

Vindicator (200 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher cannon
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Storm bolter

Wolf Guard Terminators (185 points)
• Enhancement: Thirst for Glory (Upgrade)
• 1x Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader
• 1x Relic greataxe
• 4x Wolf Guard Terminator
• 4x Master-crafted power weapon
4x Storm Shield

 

Remember the Iron Wolves!!!

19 hours ago, Kassill said:

So terminators die just as fast in 11th as 10th? cool cool cool

Yes and no

 

A brick of 10 SW or vanilla SM terminators when focused down is easy to kill.  I think that is the major flaw with a terminator heavy list.  You spend a ton of points on the 10 man bricks and have nothing else in your list.  So your opponent is rewarded for focusing down and erasing bricks using all their combos and synergy buffs

 

The list I have been running instead seems to flip that around.

 

I have 3 5-man terminators with OC2 per model

 

I used them the same way I was using my GHs...they are disposable action monkeys

 

The difference is all those skirmishing units people use to kill action monkeys are NOT reliable to kill terminators.   This causes a problem for my opponent.  Do they expose a heavy hitter to kill 5 measly terminators?  If they do I will clap back and erase whatever he used (headhunter task force vindicators are insane guys).  If they ignore my terminators I start building a primary scoring lead.

 

I think I may have found our SW niche for 11th...I am 3-0 in my last 3 games with it

 

I was wrong about GHs with OC3 being super action monkeys...it was the OC2 terminators all along using Legends of Saga and Song playing Priority Assets

23 hours ago, Kassill said:

So terminators die just as fast in 11th as 10th? cool cool cool

 

I actually think that termies are more durable now, but the game changed enough that it won't feel like it. Not having a max hand size for secondary objectives has a large impact on how we play. When you had a max hand size it really gave the secondaries a sense of urgency, and you basically had to pre-position to score ASAP to keep up. Now you can react to the cards more deliberately and the focus is on the primary missions. That means you're going to have more units interacting with each other so the volume of threats will be higher because units won't be as spread out. I'm pretty excited that the smaller squads are working for TiguriusX because that feels like how termies should play. Bully their small stuff and force them to commit their heavy hitters. Having to balance the termies with the deterrents is more fun than running 3 10-man stat check units. 

Has anyone tried the Sternguard in librarius conclave? Is it something worth putting together *looks at my unassembled leviathan sternguard*. The combo is librarian with Fusillade (unit gets anti-monster/vehicle 5+) with 10 Sternguard. In pyromancy they get +1AP in 12 inches and sustained 1. Oath puts up a lot of mortal wounds on monsters and vehicles.  I see a lot of purge lists running big stuff.

9 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Has anyone tried the Sternguard in librarius conclave? Is it something worth putting together *looks at my unassembled leviathan sternguard*. The combo is librarian with Fusillade (unit gets anti-monster/vehicle 5+) with 10 Sternguard. In pyromancy they get +1AP in 12 inches and sustained 1. Oath puts up a lot of mortal wounds on monsters and vehicles.  I see a lot of purge lists running big stuff.

 

The sternguard brick you described is a very popular and deadly choice in purge lists

 

You just need a delivery system (drop pod or UM and ventris buff to drop in as offense...or hide in a LR in the back as a defensive deterrent)

They have to get in rapid fire range to get full damage

That’s the rub. Darn Ventris and ultramarines have a better way of delivering it. I do think your list has a better way of handling anti tank/ monster  role. Sternguard would just get wiped after a kill. And it’s a lot of points. Vindicators and the Lancer have redundancy. 

I had a hunch when I bought an entirely new SW army last summer with the release that there would be some major changes come 11th which is why I am glad I didn’t go all crazy in building out for 10th. 
 

I will be magnetizing many more models than previously planned. 

16 hours ago, TiguriusX said:

 

The sternguard brick you described is a very popular and deadly choice in purge lists

 

You just need a delivery system (drop pod or UM and ventris buff to drop in as offense...or hide in a LR in the back as a defensive deterrent)

They have to get in rapid fire range to get full damage

 

I would argue that they don't always need to be in Rapid Fire range to be effective though. At least that's what I've learned from running them in 10th. Yes it's nice when they churn out 18+ MW on a target but you don't always need that much damage to clear their target. The exception to this would be when hunting bigger targets like Knights or if the target has any kind of Feel no Pain.

 

 

  • 2 weeks later...

Just had a 1000pt game against Orks. He was running 2 big squads of boyz, meganobz, and commandos with characters mixed into each unit. I used Beastslayer running some TWC, Inceptors, Bjorn, Wolf Scouts, and a few other things. All min squad sizes. I was doing purge and he was doing priority asset. @TiguriusX was right that Purge definitely has a hard time keeping up with points. I was able to delete the commandos, but nothing else. I only had a squad of intercessors at the end. Game went full turns and ended 52-94 Orks victory. Having only 2 detachment points definitely made a difference I feel. I could either take no support detachment or two and only have detachment rules for a couple units. It also reminded me why I dislike 1000pt games because marines always feel underwhelming. The only reason we did was because of time. As far as the rules, I'm enjoying the changes, especially melee.

On 6/27/2026 at 1:48 PM, TiguriusX said:

Yes and no

 

A brick of 10 SW or vanilla SM terminators when focused down is easy to kill.  I think that is the major flaw with a terminator heavy list.  You spend a ton of points on the 10 man bricks and have nothing else in your list.  So your opponent is rewarded for focusing down and erasing bricks using all their combos and synergy buffs

 

The list I have been running instead seems to flip that around.

 

I have 3 5-man terminators with OC2 per model

 

I used them the same way I was using my GHs...they are disposable action monkeys

 

The difference is all those skirmishing units people use to kill action monkeys are NOT reliable to kill terminators.   This causes a problem for my opponent.  Do they expose a heavy hitter to kill 5 measly terminators?  If they do I will clap back and erase whatever he used (headhunter task force vindicators are insane guys).  If they ignore my terminators I start building a primary scoring lead.

 

I think I may have found our SW niche for 11th...I am 3-0 in my last 3 games with it

 

I was wrong about GHs with OC3 being super action monkeys...it was the OC2 terminators all along using Legends of Saga and Song playing Priority Assets

Played a similar list as your original one but with Raven Guard and JPIs and Temporal Corridor Libby with Hellblasters as a QRF. Played into Salamanders double Redeemer Torrent weapons fest. It did not go well. JPIs don't have the same durability as Terminators for sure but even then I'm not sure the Big Boys can withstand such pressure.

 

Have you faced that Purge list yet with your Wolfy Headhunters?

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