11th Ed. Space Marine Detachment Points revealed.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

GW has now posted the various 11th edition space marines detachments. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/2ekfivpk/new40k-download-new-space-marine-faction-packs-today/

 

Other than to note that there are quite a few 3 pointers (including, thankfully, Gladius), I can't really say much as I've never played loyalist space marines.

Edited Tuesday at 07:26 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Emperor Ming]

But no info on what dispositions are unlocked......

[TheArtilleryman]

Ur, what?

 

 

 

Literally the most aircrafty thing in the codex is no longer an aircraft…

Edited Monday at 05:44 PM by TheArtilleryman

[DemonGSides]

1 minute ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Ur, what?

 

 

 

Aircraft work differently than they did, and transport aircraft are basically now their own beast separate from 'aircraft' in the classical jet fighter style.

 

Stormravens have always been flying land raider lite for multiple editions now. This lets them stay that way and retain their transport ability, otherwise they would be very weird to use as transports with the update aircraft rules of coming on and off the board. 

 

Basically aircraft are now almost all entirely strafing run style aircrafts, whereas the stormravens never occupied that role. 

[Malakithe]

Forgefather + Librarius going to be funny scary possibly

[Dark Shepherd]

New Space Wolves detachments looking very meh sadly

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

New Space Wolves detachments looking very meh sadly

 

All our Detachments are 2DP meaning at least we can play properly at 1000 points or bolt on an extra Detachment above that. 

 

Saga of the Great Wolf + WG Termie Detachment + Venerable Dreadnought = 7" Charges out of Deep Strike. Not too shabby.

[Dark Shepherd]

Im looking at Beastslayer (still) and then Champions of Fenris as a freebie

 

Edit: the 1DPs still look meh to me but SOTGW is calling to me

Edited Monday at 09:00 PM by Dark Shepherd

[TheArtilleryman]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Aircraft work differently than they did, and transport aircraft are basically now their own beast separate from 'aircraft' in the classical jet fighter style.

 

Stormravens have always been flying land raider lite for multiple editions now. This lets them stay that way and retain their transport ability, otherwise they would be very weird to use as transports with the update aircraft rules of coming on and off the board. 

 

Basically aircraft are now almost all entirely strafing run style aircrafts, whereas the stormravens never occupied that role. 

They absolutely occupied that role. Once they dump their cargo, that’s all they have left to do…

[mel_danes]

Turn 2 Stormtalon comes on the edge of the board and shoots some things. If the enemy doesn't blow it up it goes back into reserves. 

 

Turn 3 it comes on the other side of the board, and shoots some things. If the enemy doesn't blow it up it goes back into reserves. 

 

Turn 4 it's in reserves and is immediately destroyed.

 

Am I missing something? 

I'm paying for unit I can use for 2 turns before it self destructs.

 

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Forgefather + Librarius going to be funny scary possibly

The Speeder one will also combine well. The Melta Speeder Storm having access to all those rules will be slept on. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

@mel_danes, units in reserves are only destroyed at the end of turn 3 if they haven't been on the table yet - the new rules at page 69 excludes "repositioned units" from that rule, a term defined on page 68 as being any units that were on the table and have since left.

Edited Tuesday at 12:13 AM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

They absolutely occupied that role. Once they dump their cargo, that’s all they have left to do…

They could always pick up another unit and move it

[Bouargh]

12 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

But no info on what dispositions are unlocked......

 

Yeah, generally speaking the rule for mustering army remain unclear. Anyway, one satisfying point of this batch of release is that Legends have not been touched (nothing seams to have disappeared and nothing seams to have been added). Yet. Let's wait and see what will be the fate of this section with SM Codex ...

[DemonGSides]

14 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

They absolutely occupied that role. Once they dump their cargo, that’s all they have left to do…

 

Y'all can 'respectfully' disagree but that's not how Stormravens have worked in the past.  It's been an option, but why would you overpay for such things?  It's not it's use case, even if it can be used that way; same way that a terminator squad can for sure be your home objective camper, but it's not what the unit is useful for.

 

Stormravens are air transports with some heavy weaponry on them.  They were used as hover tanks for the past decade+ (If they were even used; I think I'm the only person in my area that's ever fielded one, let alone 3).  They shouldn't be relegated to the same profile and use case as the Stormhawk, and I'm glad they didn't.  I find it weird that that's what you want from a unit that is supposed to be used to deliver some beefy boys and then shoot anything around the drop zone.  They physically wouldn't be allowed to do that any more in the current rule set if they retained the aircraft keyword.

Edited Tuesday at 11:47 AM by DemonGSides

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Y'all can 'respectfully' disagree but that's not how Stormravens have worked in the past.  It's been an option, but why would you overpay for such things?  It's not it's use case, even if it can be used that way; same way that a terminator squad can for sure be your home objective camper, but it's not what the unit is useful for.

 

Stormravens are air transports with some heavy weaponry on them.  They were used as hover tanks for the past decade+ (If they were even used; I think I'm the only person in my area that's ever fielded one, let alone 3).  They shouldn't be relegated to the same profile and use case as the Stormhawk, and I'm glad they didn't.  I find it weird that that's what you want from a unit that is supposed to be used to deliver some beefy boys and then shoot anything around the drop zone.  They physically wouldn't be allowed to do that any more in the current rule set if they retained the aircraft keyword.

It’s losing the flexibility. I'm not sure what the exact difference is going to look like in the new rules but based on previous, you are more vulnerable if you are a hover vehicle than an aircraft. So you dump your cargo, then become an aircraft for the rest of the game. Or you have the protection of being an aircraft first, then convert to hover later. For the points they cost they are too vulnerable imo without the option to switch.
 

The aircraft rules got a lot more watered down in previous editions anyway; then they first came out and you could only snapshot an aircraft that made more sense. I’ll be interested to see what the new rules do. 
 

Plus it makes no sense for the Stormraven not to be an aircraft, when they are literally meant to be able to deploy from space.

Edited Tuesday at 12:50 PM by TheArtilleryman

[DanPesci]

Quote

t’s losing the flexibility. I'm not sure what the exact difference is going to look like in the new rules but based on previous, you are more vulnerable if you are a hover vehicle than an aircraft. So you dump your cargo, then become an aircraft for the rest of the game. Or you have the protection of being an aircraft first, then convert to hover later. For the points they cost they are too vulnerable imo without the option to switch.

 

All aircraft now just ingress in on T2, they dont move 20" or whatever on anymore, they just appear on a board edge...shoot...then go back into reserves end of your opponents turn.

 

This would mean a transport 'aircraft' could only ever drop troop units off the edge they arrive on. Also the rules state that non-fly units cant charge aircraft anymore and you ignore it for moving through etc as its meant to be way up in the sky - so it would make no sense if that aircraft was able to drop people off and then not be charged. There is no switching between hover and flying etc anymore. Also, being an aircraft doesnt make you any harder to shoot down (afaik), so an aircraft and a hover unit are both equally as easy to shoot.

 

So yeah, its a bit silly that a stormraven doesnt have the 'aircraft' keyword, but it would have made it useless as a transport if it did have it, and isnt any easier to kill for not having aircraft (again, afaik - im mainly going of this goonhammer article - https://www.goonhammer.com/11th-edition-40k-rules-deep-dive-special-unit-types/).

 

 

[TheArtilleryman]

18 minutes ago, DanPesci said:

 

All aircraft now just ingress in on T2, they dont move 20" or whatever on anymore, they just appear on a board edge...shoot...then go back into reserves end of your opponents turn.

 

This would mean a transport 'aircraft' could only ever drop troop units off the edge they arrive on. Also the rules state that non-fly units cant charge aircraft anymore and you ignore it for moving through etc as its meant to be way up in the sky - so it would make no sense if that aircraft was able to drop people off and then not be charged. There is no switching between hover and flying etc anymore. Also, being an aircraft doesnt make you any harder to shoot down (afaik), so an aircraft and a hover unit are both equally as easy to shoot.

 

So yeah, its a bit silly that a stormraven doesnt have the 'aircraft' keyword, but it would have made it useless as a transport if it did have it, and isnt any easier to kill for not having aircraft (again, afaik - im mainly going of this goonhammer article - https://www.goonhammer.com/11th-edition-40k-rules-deep-dive-special-unit-types/).

 

 

You guys are right, with the changes to aircraft rules it needs to not be one to work on the table. So the issue then is with the new aircraft rules, that frankly, just sound dumb…

 

Yes, that is my educated and highly reasoned assessment 

Edited Tuesday at 01:33 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Karhedron]

32 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

So the issue then is with the new aircraft rules, that frankly, just sound dumb…

 

A game based on a fairly small section of the battlefield is always going to struggle to represent aircraft properly in a satisfactory way. 40K has always involved a fair amount of abstraction and aircraft need more abstracting than just about any other type of unit.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I've split off the post giving the link for the Xenos reveal to be its own thread.

 

As well, GW has now added the Force Dispositions for each detachment to its Space Marine reveal - while I think they should have done that yesterday, better now than later.

 

I wouldn't have pegged Librarian Conclave as reconnaissance.  

Edited Tuesday at 07:30 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Karhedron]

39 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I wouldn't have pegged Librarian Conclave as reconnaissance.  

 

I would not have pegged LAG as Take and Hold! 

 

You don't want to babysit Objectives with a Detachment whose bonus only applies when you Charge. You also don't want Battleshock yourself with your own Stratagems just to activate their full power.

 

LAG should definitely be Reconnaissance

[Orange Knight]

The rules are so messy right now.

 

App not fully updated, random rules changed in random pages of massive PDF documents, detachments all over the place.

 

It's extremely tedious to play the game at the moment, and I can't wait for the actual codex books.

 

We need digital codex books that are updated and amended as FAQs are released. I don't want to see random profile adjustments in disparate PDF files and apps.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

While I'm happy the Storm Raven has been spared the terrible Aircraft treatment, it's still been severely nerfed. I expect to see a major points drop.

[Wormwoods]

Starting to think all these big plane models don't align themselves well with the tabletop wargame about tanks and infantry. 

[de Selby]

I know it's heavily historicals-inspired but 40k is supposed to be a sci-fantasy game. Stuff flying around really should be a part of the game and fit into the ruleset.