Custodes Rumours

[Zoatibix]

I used to love maththing things out and politely arguing with folks on the internet. It can be both interesting and enjoyable. But after spending an hour working out some stuff about regular SoB vs Celestian shooting I felt I was getting too into it.

 

I do find these thing interesting and appreciate the time to work them out.

 

I am really surprised that the new Aquilion Terminators don’t come with a bare head option. Wearing really good armour then going bare headed is quintessentially 40K.

 

(Yes, you can source such heads from elsewhere.)

 

I am more interested in how GW are going to handle the popularity of the Custodes across both systems.

They seem popular in my area even before the swanky new models.

 

Very limited sample size but in my local area they are already just a popular as Marines in HH. 
 

Over in 40K most folks have just sort of acquired Marines by that strange osmosis of being into the game. But Knights (either Traitor Scum or Noble Warrior Heroes) are probably the second most owned army. I would have to do a poll but I think Custodes would come second or third these days.

 

(Heck I bought the Custodes army box off a friend who built it then moved on before even putting paint on a model!)

 

Sorry…rambling…

 

Custodes have obvious advantages in terms of low model count to buy and paint. Easy to transport and usable across two systems.

(I play GSC. An army seemingly priced to bring a misty-eyed tear to veteran HH SOlar Aux collectors)

 

Will that mean fewer sales overall? As in someone not buying HH marines or Mech plus whatever for 40K but instead spending less cash to get one army.

 

I have no idea how that would affect competitive play. I assume folks would adjust lists or just get used to fighting each others Custodes. I’m musing about what GW might do to get folks buying other stuff.

Edited October 3 by Zoatibix
Hideous typos

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

I used to love maththing things out and politely arguing with folks on the internet. It can be both interesting and enjoyable. But after spending an hour working out some stuff about regular SoB vs Celestian shooting I felt I was getting too into it.

 

I do find these thing interesting and appreciate the time to work them out.

 

I am really surprised that the new Aquilion Terminators don’t come with a bare head option. Wearing really good armour then going bare headed is quintessentially 40K.

 

(Yes, you can source such heads from elsewhere.)

 

I am more interested in how GW are going to handle the popularity of the Custodes across both systems.

They seem popular in my area even before the swanky new models.

 

Very limited sample size but in my local area they are already just a popular as Marines in HH. 
 

In that area most folks have just sort of acquired Marines by that strange osmosis of being into the game. But Knights (either Traitor Scum or Noble Warrior Heroes) are probably the second most owned army. I would have to do a poll but I think Custodes would come second or third these days.

 

(Heck I bought the Custodes army box off a friend who built it then moved on before even putting paint on a model!)

 

Sorry…rambling…

 

Custodes have obvious advantages in terms of low model count to buy and paint. Easy to transport and usable across two systems.

(I play GSC. An army seemingly priced to bring a misty-eyed tear to veteran HH SOlar Aux collectors)

 

Will that mean fewer sales overall? As in someone not buying HH marines or Mech plus whatever for 40K but instead spending less cash to get one army.

 

I have no idea how that would affect competitive play. I assume folks would adjust lists or just get used to fighting each others Custodes. I’m musing about what GE might do to get folks buying other stuff.

I am very sure GW know that a 1140+ point army in a combat patrol is the sort of easy access discount frankly wet dream of a value box many have wanted forever. I will be buying one because having a low effort imperium army on the shelf is hard to pass on.

 

This is sort of what people maybe expected a bit more of or wanted from marines being more elite? Instead they're still priced and pointed to be able to bring over 100 bodies inside 2k (even if not sensible).

 

All I can say is custodes will be more common than every for reasons of value and accessibility and are a better into army in a lot of ways than marines are.

 

To manage their impact in 40k, all I can think is they need to make it really easy or enticing going forwards to have more sisters of silence and/or agents units in the army to bring that profile diversity.

[Lord Marshal]

The £195 Limited Edition already selling out is pretty funny, especially when it actually sold out before the hardback collector's edition (£61).

[Doghouse]

I thought that might be the case, Custodes are a different breed of player I think. 

 

I was tempted then thought otherwise.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

The £195 Limited Edition already selling out is pretty funny, especially when it actually sold out before the hardback collector's edition (£61).

 

There seems to be more goodies in it than the marine one and priced more akin to the chaos books. 

[jimbo1701]

Anybody still trying to find the support group boxed set they have 3 in the element games store Sheffield £145 each. 

[Nephaston]

Yeah, the custodes box goodies are arguably nicer compared to the seven paperweights the marine ones get, but the box is ALSO cheaper. Rules, models and faction preference aside, the custodes box is just a better deal. Maybe not a good deal but so much better than the marine one.

[Lord_Ikka]

Tabletop Battles review of the Custodes here. Pretty nasty all around, looks like GW has really gone all in for the super-elite army. I have a feeling that the army will be really good for the first couple of weeks, but will not be nearly OP as some people are worried about. While each 2/3-man squad of golden boys is OC 8-12, losing one model will hurt and there will be decent loadouts against them (Hordes/lots of vehicles will probably do well). Custodes will be durable and hard to kill while packing a heavy amount of firepower, but won't be unstoppable.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Tabletop Battles review of the Custodes here. Pretty nasty all around, looks like GW has really gone all in for the super-elite army. I have a feeling that the army will be really good for the first couple of weeks, but will not be nearly OP as some people are worried about. While each 2/3-man squad of golden boys is OC 8-12, losing one model will hurt and there will be decent loadouts against them (Hordes/lots of vehicles will probably do well). Custodes will be durable and hard to kill while packing a heavy amount of firepower, but won't be unstoppable.

This is an unpopular opinion, but I actually think most of the unit entries on release are slightly overcosted in points. Not by much, keep in mind, but still paying too much. 

 

They also didn't exactly find that balance between Axe and Spear again for Wardens and Terminators. While my Stormstodes that can take axes do have them, I will likely count them as Spears again. 

[Lord_Ikka]

A unit of axes might be decent to go into something like SM termies or Gravis units, doing more damage even if you get less attacks- typically the units that you'd be aiming for don't have a ton of models so losing half your attacks to one-shot a model might be worth it. My thought, if I ever start the golden ones, would probably be majority spears/swords + boards, but a unit or two of axes for some variety. 

[Borbarad]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

This is an unpopular opinion, but I actually think most of the unit entries on release are slightly overcosted in points. Not by much, keep in mind, but still paying too much. 

 

I wonder if GW designed themselves a bit into a corner with Custodes. Given the fixed sized units and huge point's cost; adjusting the unit cost by 10ish points will free up points for an enhancement or at best a SoS squad. Not sure if that will move the needle for external balance; but at leasst it might make internal balance a bit better.

[Lathe Biosas]

I feel like the 3 man units were a last minute change.

 

GW is so stuck in the "build what's in the box" mode, it doesn't make sense for the new Sodality boxes to have 2 × 3-man units, as there is only 1 Vexilla per box.

 

Unless, you aren't expected to model the vexilla (as it doesn't replace any weapons or wargear)?

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I feel like the 3 man units were a last minute change.

I'm of the opposite opinion. Ramping up a squad of six Nustodes for one CP would be a serious CP bargain.

[redmapa]

4 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I feel like the 3 man units were a last minute change.

 

GW is so stuck in the "build what's in the box" mode, it doesn't make sense for the new Sodality boxes to have 2 × 3-man units, as there is only 1 Vexilla per box.

 

Unless, you aren't expected to model the vexilla (as it doesn't replace any weapons or wargear)?

 

I dont think the 3 man unit were a last minute change, however broken Custodes end up being I do think that GW tried to think it through, the detachment system is fairly well thought out so you can personalize your shield host with the other detachments and the stat lines feel like its an army of heroes and the points reflect that.

 

The discrepancy between Custodes unit size and the way they are sold has more to do with the fact that these boxes are for 40k AND 30k, its just that 40k now has a different design paradigm than 30k where units can be bigger.

 

I think the SM update was far more messy and riddled with mistakes than the Custodes.

[Lord_Ikka]

I think the smaller, variable model count shows that they actually understood the issues that would come with transitioning Custodes from the larger 30k unit counts to the smaller, more elite 40k versions. 

 

Wardens/Allarus termies/Vertus Praetors - units come in 2-3 while the box has 5 models (Vertus only having 3). Allows players to make 2x 2man squads and a Shield-captain, or both a 2man and a 3man squad (or a 2man/Shield captain or 3man for Vertus).

Sword/Spear Sodalities/Aquillions/Venatari - units come in 3 model squads, box comes with six minis. 

 

Technically, for new players Custodes are probably the best price per model faction in the game now. The smallest Custodes unit (not SoS) is a 2man Allarus squad at 180 points, while the standard 3man Sword/Spear Guards are around 240 each. So a box of the new Guards winds up being close to a fourth of a legal 2k list, for 70 bucks. That's not bad.

Edited Monday at 01:26 AM by Lord_Ikka

[Evil Eye]

I will be honest even as someone who thinks Custodes work better for Heresy*, I am sad the Sagittarum got the chop. They were very nice models, and with them being the guys in the corner of Adrian Smith's legendary painting of Horus Vs the Emperor on the Vengeful Spirit it's a shame to see them go.

 

On a brighter note if I can get one for a sane price I would like the Pallas for converting into...something. The Custodes vehicles are really nice, and I still really want them to do the Sisters of Silence Kharon Acquisitor in plastic.

 

 

*Though to be fair I am a massive fan of Dave Taylor's converted Custodes from way back. Those Dreadnoughts, man!

[Robbienw]

Hopefully the Sagitarrun will be added back in future when they get around to doing a new kit. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Robbienw said:

Hopefully the Sagitarrun will be added back in future when they get around to doing a new kit. 

Especially since I would have loved to do the Enhancement for +1A for Shooting attacks with them. 

 

I was originally looking at Terminators to do that with, but the Terminator Captain is.......not great.