Think we’ll get a character to compete with the primarchs?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Whether that’s Dante getting buffed special rules, and T6, and 8-10 wounds maybe?

 

or mephiston being the strongest loyalist psyker being able to go absolutely ham psychically

 

or even the sanguinor getting the full loyalist greater demon/demon prince treatment

 

do you think we’ll see any of our characters come any where near as good as the lion or Guilliman?

Edited Thursday at 09:18 AM by Jolemai

[Ioldanach]

If by "any where near as good as [Jonson] or [Guilliman]" you mean marginally close (i.e., they might defeat either of these characters under circumstances other than a fluke), then I sincerely hope not. No Adeptus Astartes (and I'm not counting those who fall and ascend to daemon prince status) should come close to rivalling any of the Primarchs. At best, you might see some with potency where they might rival an Adeptus Custodes, but those would be extremely rare exceptions. The three characters you named might be midway between their "regular" counterparts (e.g., Dante compared to a normal Chapter Master, Mephiston compared to a normal Chief Librarian, the Sanguinor compared to the Emperor's Champion) and a non-daemonic Primarch, but that's about as much as anyone should reasonably expect.

[Karhedron]

Certainly not in the upcoming supplement. It has already leaked. Dante got some minor buffs. Mephiston got a bit more buffed but is nowhere near Primarch levels and pays a lot of points for increased power. The Sanguinor got +1T and that was it! They didn't even fix the fact that they broke him with the changes to Fights First in 11th edition.

 

I would love to see the Sanguinor boosted to Primarch levels but I am not holding my breath.

 

Ironically Logan Grimnar is now looking almost Primarch-esque. He is on an 80mm base, takes up 5 slots in a Transport, has a double profile melee weapon that hits really hard and has a bunch of really good buffs for SW units. In fact he is so good I almost wonder what Russ could bring on top of that if/when they finally release him. If they could buff the Sanguinor so that he is as good as Logan, I would probably be happy.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Certainly not in the upcoming supplement. It has already leaked. Dante got some minor buffs. Mephiston got a bit more buffed but is nowhere near Primarch levels and pays a lot of points for increased power. The Sanguinor got +1T and that was it! They didn't even fix the fact that they broke him with the changes to Fights First in 11th edition.

 

I would love to see the Sanguinor boosted to Primarch levels but I am not holding my breath.

 

Ironically Logan Grimnar is now looking almost Primarch-esque. He is on an 80mm base, takes up 5 slots in a Transport, has a double profile melee weapon that hits really hard and has a bunch of really good buffs for SW units. In fact he is so good I almost wonder what Russ could bring on top of that if/when they finally release him. If they could buff the Sanguinor so that he is as good as Logan, I would probably be happy.

Where are those leaks at? 

[Rhavien]

https://www.tabletopbattles.com/11th-edition-datasheet-review-blood-angels/

 

Here you go

[Alternis]

To answer the OP.

 

I would say yes, first of all GW likes lots of money and centerpiece/Primarch models sell very well.

 

Secondly the groundwork has already been set up in the book “Darkness in the Blood” for either Mephiston to become something like a big centerpiece model, or some kind of resurrection of Sanguinius.

Whichever way it goes, the key and connection is Mephiston, Sanguinor and The Black Rage.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Alternis said:

To answer the OP.

 

I would say yes, first of all GW likes lots of money and centerpiece/Primarch models sell very well.

 

Secondly the groundwork has already been set up in the book “Darkness in the Blood” for either Mephiston to become something like a big centerpiece model, or some kind of resurrection of Sanguinius.

Whichever way it goes, the key and connection is Mephiston, Sanguinor and The Black Rage.

Yeah, they set that up a long time ago and there’s been no indication that they are planning to do much with it any time soon.

[Alternis]

8 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yeah, they set that up a long time ago and there’s been no indication that they are planning to do much with it any time soon.

GW isn’t exactly known to move quickly with these things in general. 

[Brother Raul]

I am keen on the Sanguinor being a demi primarch too but I am scared of the price at this stage.

 

Happy for Mephiston to continue to be buffed as well. Wish he got a 2+/4+/4+ for that price as the weapon fixed is just him catching up to any ultramarine beat stick with a huge price tag.

[Blindhamster]

No.

 

we won’t have a primarch equivalent. The sanguinor should be, we have stories of him soloing blood thirsters in codex. Still, I think having seen what is apparently coming for him in the pdf, they obviously don’t plan on it.

 

im convinced that broadly speaking the design teams don’t like blood angels at this point.  Hyperbolic as it may sounds.

 

Dante is canonically a master strategist with skills enough to have multiple chapter masters bow to his wisdom and experience and have not one but two primarchs greatly respect him. Yet somehow he continues to have worse strategic rules than the other chapter masters. 
 

Mephiston looks to be hugely overcosted for what he brings.

 

id like to see things change, but I don’t think they will.

[Xenith]

Would have been the ideal time to boost the sanguinor, but they haven't. 

[DemonGSides]

The ideal time to boost the Sanguinor was last edition, when they redid his model.  He could've come in slightly bigger (Smaller than Abaddon but bigger than most Space Marines) and been a much cooler unit.

But, GW do not like BA the way they used to, so we will not be getting that.

I'm sure they'll just bring Sanguinius back in 10 years.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

No.

 

we won’t have a primarch equivalent. The sanguinor should be, we have stories of him soloing blood thirsters in codex. Still, I think having seen what is apparently coming for him in the pdf, they obviously don’t plan on it.

 

im convinced that broadly speaking the design teams don’t like blood angels at this point.  Hyperbolic as it may sounds.

 

Dante is canonically a master strategist with skills enough to have multiple chapter masters bow to his wisdom and experience and have not one but two primarchs greatly respect him. Yet somehow he continues to have worse strategic rules than the other chapter masters. 
 

Mephiston looks to be hugely overcosted for what he brings.

 

id like to see things change, but I don’t think they will.

The PDF is just a temporary thing until we get our new codex so all of our units are up to the new standard.

 

i was referring to the codex not pdf any way lol.

[Alternis]

13 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

No.

 

we won’t have a primarch equivalent. The sanguinor should be, we have stories of him soloing blood thirsters in codex. Still, I think having seen what is apparently coming for him in the pdf, they obviously don’t plan on it.

 

im convinced that broadly speaking the design teams don’t like blood angels at this point.  Hyperbolic as it may sounds.

 

Dante is canonically a master strategist with skills enough to have multiple chapter masters bow to his wisdom and experience and have not one but two primarchs greatly respect him. Yet somehow he continues to have worse strategic rules than the other chapter masters. 
 

Mephiston looks to be hugely overcosted for what he brings.

 

id like to see things change, but I don’t think they will.

The Sanguinor has never been depicted as being bigger than a space marine.

And taking on greater daemons is not a feat only Sanguinius and Sanguinor have done, Mephiston took on Skarbrand if you remember, that isn’t a prerequisite for the Sanguinor to be a centerpiece model, there’s a reason GW haven’t made him into one. 
 

We will at some point get a centerpiece. Whether it’s Mephiston ascended into the black angel, or Sanguinius resurrected or even something completely new, like the Emperor’s proto-Primarch ‘The Angel’.

honestly there’s just no way to know and we can only speculate what it may be.

But one thing is for certain, us getting a centerpiece is a matter of ‘WHEN’ not ‘IF’

[Blindhamster]

27 minutes ago, Alternis said:

The Sanguinor has never been depicted as being bigger than a space marine.

I never once said he was bigger than a marine.

 

27 minutes ago, Alternis said:

And taking on greater daemons is not a feat only Sanguinius and Sanguinor have done, Mephiston took on Skarbrand if you remember, that isn’t a prerequisite for the Sanguinor to be a centerpiece model, there’s a reason GW haven’t made him into one. 

Yes but Sanguinor actively dragonballs (no-diffs as the kids say) Ka'Bandha. Skarbrand has been bested by both Mephiston and Dante at different points. 

 

30 minutes ago, Alternis said:

We will at some point get a centerpiece. Whether it’s Mephiston ascended into the black angel, or Sanguinius resurrected or even something completely new, like the Emperor’s proto-Primarch ‘The Angel’.

I'd like to point out that Mephiston is no more likely to be centrepiece than Sanguinor. By the end, he and the Sanguinor are shown to be mirrors of eachother at best. As far as Sanguinius goes... I do think he'll stay dead, or if they bring him back, it won't be till literally all the other loyalists have been done. 

 

31 minutes ago, Alternis said:

honestly there’s just no way to know and we can only speculate what it may be.

But one thing is for certain, us getting a centerpiece is a matter of ‘WHEN’ not ‘IF’

You're probably right here!

[Karhedron]

If you want to see what a Primarch-lite looks like then Logan Grimnar is a good template. He has a Primarch-sized base filled with a tactical rock and a pair of wolves. He has a seriously good set of buffs and integrates well with our new Detachment. Lastly he is a beatstick with sweep and strike profiles on his weapon. 

[Jolemai]

On 9/21/2026 at 1:37 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Whether that’s Dante getting buffed special rules, and T6, and 8-10 wounds maybe?

 

or mephiston being the strongest loyalist psyker being able to go absolutely ham psychically

 

or even the sanguinor getting the full loyalist greater demon/demon prince treatment

 

do you think we’ll see any of our characters come any where near as good as the lion or Guilliman?

 

Why should we have a PEQ unit?

Should every Faction have a PEQ unit?

 

Coining the term PEQ (Primarch Equivalent) in case it hasn't been already as it's needed.

Edited Thursday at 12:06 PM by Jolemai

[Blindhamster]

22 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

Coining the term PEQ (Primarch Equivalent) in case it hasn't been already as it's needed.

Going to make top dollar if it catches on :D

 

on a more serious note. I broadly think that the answer is "no" we don't need a PEQ, not every faction will have one, but it does look like most are getting something thats just.. better than anything else in their respective factions. For ultramarines and dark angels they have their primarchs, orks have gaz, valoris (even if first rumours were bogus) will likely be a monster. 

Ours is arguably mephiston. But he's still miles behind those. M

 

My view is it should be Mephiston & Sanguinor each being well above regular marines, but also below primarchs. For Example. If they were costed and stated at 200 points each, we could have both in an army and it should feel roughly as impactful as having a primarch on the table. 

[DemonGSides]

4 hours ago, Jolemai said:

 

Why should we have a PEQ unit?

Should every Faction have a PEQ unit?

 

Coining the term PEQ (Primarch Equivalent) in case it hasn't been already as it's needed.

 

Should has nothing to do with it.

 

But GW knows centerpiece models make them money. So it's just a little weird they don't want their BA line to make money with the middling refresh and then abandonment of interesting and fluffy rules.

 

 

[Alternis]

Ok so I actually have a theory about this.

 

FAIR WARNING THIS IS A LONG POST 

feel free to skip if you don’t want to spend a long time reading! 

 

I do think we will have Sanguinius back on the table but not the Sanguinius we know from the heresy, changed and possibly warped/conflicted.

 

There’s 3 book sources we have to glean information from 

 

the last 3 are just event references to reinforce 

 

• Darkness in the Blood 

• Eidolon, The Auric Hammer 

• Lion, Son of the Forest 

• Horus Heresy: WarHawk & Armour of Fate & Godblight

I’ll go in order from the books listed above.

 

So in Darkness in the Blood, the important part here is Sanguinius spoke to Mephiston and explained to him about the twin angel deities of Baal the Sanguinor vs The Black Angel, fighting for dominance, the Sanguinor grows in power whenever a BA marine commits heroic actions, creates a piece of art, embraces his humanity etc etc, meanwhile the black angel grows in power whenever they fall to the black rage, commit an act of atrocity, etc etc, there’s a very apt point here that the black angel is way more powerful and winning the exchange here. 

He gave Mephiston a choice, absorb the black rage from the blood angels and save them from their doom for a time, and become the physical manifestation of the Black Angel, whether he accepts or not, he is always fated to become it, it comes down to if he retains control or it controls him, or refuse and watch the blood angels and himself all die, naturally he accepted.

 

Thats the fact of the matter, for the first book, now here’s my theory, when Horus killed Sanguinius, whether he had 2 souls or 1 is irrelevant, I figured Sanguinius soul was rent in 2, one half manifested in the warp into the Sanguinor, while the other half shattered and became the black rage afflicting the blood angels, if Mephiston absorbs all of the black rage, he’s essentially recombining all the shattered remains of the half of Sanguinius soul within himself and becoming the dark half of the Sanguinor. 
 

following so far? 
ok now onto the second book, because this isn’t the only case of someone in the setting having their soul rent in 2 halves, light and dark, and fighting for control, when Fulgrim killed Eidolon, he unintentionally did the same thing to him, when Fabius brought him back to life, Eidolon realised he was not “whole” and he was dealing with a spiritual crisis of his dark half of his soul wanted to lead the chapter into damnation and follow the will of Fulgrim/Slaanesh, while his light half wanted to reject the ruinous powers and return the legion back to its humanity and show Fulgrim that he’s wrong, GW make a solid point here that someone will eventually win and whoever wins is essentially in control and the dominant personality. 
 

now on to my theory from the second book, I think we are seeing this exact situation with Sanguinius but on a much grander scale, his soul has been split into a light and dark half and they are both wrestling for control, the light half being the Sanguinius we know from 30k the dark half being a much darker, visceral and wrathful Sanguinius that would probably fit into the 40K setting more, maybe, we know this darker half is more powerful in the fight for control, and that Mephiston is the chosen vessel, his body and power even after crossing the rubicon is reaching Custode levels and still growing, as a speculation could his geneseed activated so many times actually turning him into a mini Primarch? Maybe, it’s too soon to say, all we know is his body cannot contain his power right now, which means he will get stronger and physically bigger. 
 

Alright, we are almost at the finish line, how you holding up, need a quick drink break? 
all good? 
let’s finish up then. 
 

Ok so onto Lion, Son of the Forest, I’ll keep this short as the important point here is a small but important scene. 
The emperor gave the lion a quest but he doesn’t fully understand it yet, he showed him 3 items. 
 

• A golden Spear dripping with blood

• A golden chalice 

• A golden candelabra (it’s like an ornate candle holder) 

 

There’s been multiple theories about what these items represent, but it’s pretty clear, a spear dripping with blood and a golden chalice are very on the nose references to blood angels (The Spear of Telesto, with the reference to blood, and the golden chalice relic which is a clear reference to the blood chalice that holds the blood of Sanguinius) the last item however eluded people for a long time, but I think it’s a reference to “The light in the Dark”, as you know the astronomicon cannot pierce the dark of imperium nihilus but the blood angels are unaffected because they follow the light of the Sanguinor who guides them through warp travel, literally a light in the darkness, I believe all 3 of these items are representing Sanguinius’ Mind (Chalice), Body (Spear) and Soul (Candelabra) 

 

Now why would the emperor need The Lion’s help in regards to Sanguinius? 
 

This is where Warhawk and Armour of Fate comes into play. 
 

Jaghatai khan was killed by Mortarion, and as his soul was leaving his body, Malcador & The Emperor (who was already exhausted) both had to focus their powers to force his soul back into his body and bring him back from the brink if only just. 
 

And in Armour of Fate Guilliman was brought back from death after being killed by Fulgrim and put in stasis at the moment of death, his soul had already left his body, it took Ynnead through Yvraine to anchor his soul back into his body and Cawl to repair his body back to life in a joint effort to bring him back. 
 

Later during Godblight Mortarion had killed Guilliman again, but the emperor having grown in such a level of power, possessed Guilliman’s body and resurrected him there and then, needing no assistance from anyone (not looking good having G-man killed twice and resurrected twice, death is clearly not final in the setting anymore) 

 

Here lands my final theory in combination with everything, the emperor may have the ability to resurrect Sanguinius now, but, he needs Sanguinius’ disparate parts all collected into one place, his consciousness which is likely part of the Sanguinor now, having had conversations with Dante & Mephiston, his body which is in the golden sarcophagus on Baal, and his Soul which while part is with the Sanguinor, the rest is in the black rage, which requires Mephiston to recombine. 
 

It is an effort that requires the Lion to go collect, as Guilliman is too busy keeping the Imperium from Collapsing, and Mephiston doing the soul recombination.

Edited Thursday at 03:10 PM by Alternis

[Blindhamster]

Maybe? But I don't think I can see them dropping both Mephiston and the Sanguinor as characters... I guess in another decade maybe?

[Alternis]

22 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Maybe? But I don't think I can see them dropping both Mephiston and the Sanguinor as characters... I guess in another decade maybe?

Depends entirely how they want to go about it.

 

i only think Mephiston is a vessel for the black rage, not a vessel for Sanguinius’ combination of souls, papa Sang’s body still exists and is in stasis after all.

It could just be a case of the rage is combined into the black angel, and both souls are forced back into his body.

 

This is the theme atm, Primarchs souls being forced back into their body, we’ve seen it with Guilliman and Jaghatai, the Lion his soul did indeed leave his body but it was trapped in Forest Caliban, and it took the emperor 10,000 years to actually get into the pocket dimension and communicate with his soul to put it back into his body 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 9/23/2026 at 3:09 AM, Alternis said:

The Sanguinor has never been depicted as being bigger than a space marine.

And taking on greater daemons is not a feat only Sanguinius and Sanguinor have done, Mephiston took on Skarbrand if you remember, that isn’t a prerequisite for the Sanguinor to be a centerpiece model, there’s a reason GW haven’t made him into one. 
 

We will at some point get a centerpiece. Whether it’s Mephiston ascended into the black angel, or Sanguinius resurrected or even something completely new, like the Emperor’s proto-Primarch ‘The Angel’.

honestly there’s just no way to know and we can only speculate what it may be.

But one thing is for certain, us getting a centerpiece is a matter of ‘WHEN’ not ‘IF’

I don’t recall ever seeing a lore description of his size. Do you have a source that describes his dimensions?

 

17 hours ago, Jolemai said:

 

Why should we have a PEQ unit?

Should every Faction have a PEQ unit?

 

Coining the term PEQ (Primarch Equivalent) in case it hasn't been already as it's needed.

I’d say any faction with their own coded probably deserves one from a game perspective.

from a lore perspective we have at least one character who can reasonably be described as PEQ in terms of tactical and strategic command capabilities.

 

we have a character who was possibly the most powerful psyker in the imperium as a firstborn marine and then he got so powered up the only way for him not to explode was to become a primaris marine (not sure how that worked exactly…bigger body more space for psychic power?) so does that count as nearly primarch level of power?

and we have one of only 2 imperial demons that I’m aware of…so seems giving him stats near or equal to a primarch or greater demon wouldn’t be too out there or unreasonable.

[Karhedron]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I don’t recall ever seeing a lore description of his size. Do you have a source that describes his dimensions?

 

Not directly but he appears to Dante and a large number of other Blood Angels after the withdrawal from the Cryptus system. It mentions Dante looking into his face and seeing his own reflected back. It does not mention that he is particularly larger or smaller. This implies to me that he is of normal proportions for a Marine. Even so, there are ways to make a normal human figure look larger and more impressive. The Celestant Prime from AOS is kinda how I hoped they would glow up the Sanguinor but that boat seems to have sailed. 

 

[Alternis]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I don’t recall ever seeing a lore description of his size. Do you have a source that describes his dimensions?

 

I’d say any faction with their own coded probably deserves one from a game perspective.

from a lore perspective we have at least one character who can reasonably be described as PEQ in terms of tactical and strategic command capabilities.

 

we have a character who was possibly the most powerful psyker in the imperium as a firstborn marine and then he got so powered up the only way for him not to explode was to become a primaris marine (not sure how that worked exactly…bigger body more space for psychic power?) so does that count as nearly primarch level of power?

and we have one of only 2 imperial demons that I’m aware of…so seems giving him stats near or equal to a primarch or greater demon wouldn’t be too out there or unreasonable.

During the heresy when Sanguinius personally witnessed Alatron fall into the warp and transform into the Sanguinor, it’s the most accurate description and we know from then the Sanguinor is no bigger then a first born marine, but naturally once you add wing span it makes him appear bigger then he is. 
 

Also Dante may be as capable strategically as a Primarch, but he’s tired, old and is no longer as physically capable, even after crossing the rubicon, as for Mephiston, because his geneseed activated twice (something that is physically considered impossible and is outside of the emperors design for the organ) Mephiston is physically evolving, not just psychically, and the geneseed does contain the entire genetic make up of Sanguinius, so he may well be turning into a mini Sanguinius and not realise it.

Edited 18 hours ago by Alternis
Typo fixes and additional info added.