How do GW improve sales?

[Dark Shepherd]

Share price is down, profit growth is slowing, how do they realistically improve sales?

 

My thoughts

 

Encourage cross system sales: we wont get back to chaos daemon glory days but letting new Custodes be in 30k AND 40k was player friendly. Knights and Admech could benefit from this too. 

 

Slight contradiction: more plastic 30k primarchs

 

Primarchs: Russ has been teased enough

 

Primarchs for Legions Imperialis: this is free money, tiny plastic Thunderhawks sold like crazy

 

All Black Library ltd editions be (partly) print on demand. Not a huge one but potentially a 7 figure amount or high 6 figure

 

Longer support for Kill Teams

 

Dual kit builds for characters: most AOS characters build a name and a generic character

 

Basically the era of Stick marketing for 40k is dying. 

[darkhorse0607]

-Don't limit new releases to large boxes. I know GW has the hots for this right now, but what happens is that folks who want the box often cannot get the box (scalpers, availability, cost, etc), and by the time the kits release individually the hype cycle has moved on, or the people that were going to impulse buy it (for better or worse) have also calmed down or have decided to hold off. Release the giant boxes along with the individual kits and just drop the production number of the boxes. That way people who want them can have them, people who just want the new thing can also just buy that and don't feel like they're getting FOMO'd to death. 

 

-The Heresy needs some love. I just paint/collect so I am not going to talk rules, but it seems stuck in limbo. Yes, there have been plastic Mechanicum and Custodes. Great. That's not the majority of the player base. The marine range is half done, where you have a ton of stuff (Destroyers, Recon, Legion specific stuff, etc) that haven't transitioned over to plastic, and there's no word (official word) of what's actually happening. For example, if I were to start World Eaters right now, I could buy the resin stuff that's been out for over a decade, doesn't match the new releases, are underscaled at this point and can be a nightmare because the casts are old (or are missing things like Praetors). Or, I could just wait and hope that at some point they get something. That story can be told time after time. There are rumors of new plastic legion stuff (other than the "eventually" we got years ago), but when is that? They said that the legions would get the same support that SoH and IF got when the game relaunched, and that never happened. The armory kits stopped coming. Etc. One of the big attractions for the Heresy of yore was that you could make your marines feel like they were part of a legion (head upgrades, torsos, etc) and that's basically gone unless you have a 3D printer. The Heresy is one of their big game systems based off their financial reports, act like it. 

 

-Black Library. You want to increase profits for Black Library? How about publishing books that people have been asking for, for years now. Black Legion 3 has been a decade at this point. Watchers of the Throne 3. Lion 2.  Pandemonium for you Abnett people. We are going on a year in December since Scouring 1 came out and there's not even a hint of when the next one is coming. While I am not trying to talk badly about specific authors or books, over the last year or so my hype for the lore side has basically died. We had Wicked and the Warped which was a blip on the excitement train, and some smaller gems like Apostle, but by and large it's been fairly flat for the last few years. Etc. 

 

-They need to do something to get people excited about Space Marines again for 40k. I know Xenos/Chaos fans are chucking their keyboards, but Space Marines are the big sell, and the big reaction from the community with Armageddon/new stuff has been a resounding meh. They can do better (look at the Red Corsair kits for an example or even the Armageddon Captain), but it seems like they're phoning it in for the most part. This is subjective obviously, but while SM are still extremely popular, there isn't much hype around them now. Even for Chaos, I was excited for a Red Corsair upgrade sprue or Iron Warriors upgrade sprue, and quite frankly what they released isn't even worth it.

 

I think part of the problem for the 40k side right now is the momentum they built going into the summer. In the Spring you had Huron and friends, Titus, Yarrick+IG stuff, animated trailers everywhere, hype was hyping, Then Armageddon launched and then it just fizzled out. There aren't any codices coming for the rest of the year, they haven't done built hype for anything else (i.e. WARHAMMER DAY GW, THE MINIATURE IS GOING UP FOR ORDER BEFORE YOU EVEN ANNOUNCED A DATE), and for the first time this year, it just seems kind of blah/aimless, rather than building towards anything. 

[Focslain]

31 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

How about publishing books that people have been asking for, for years now. Black Legion 3 has been a decade at this point. Watchers of the Throne 3. Lion 2.  Pandemonium for you Abnett people.

As someone that has dealt with forcing an artist to make what you want. No you do not want this.

 

Let them cook, you force an arc and that arc turns out terrible. What we need is just more stories. Period. Let the authors tell the stories they want to. If it's a continuation of an old arc you loved, GREAT, if not, of well. 

[sitnam]

2 minutes ago, Focslain said:

As someone that has dealt with forcing an artist to make what you want. No you do not want this.

 

Let them cook, you force an arc and that arc turns out terrible. What we need is just more stories. Period. Let the authors tell the stories they want to. If it's a continuation of an old arc you loved, GREAT, if not, of well. 

 

I think some of the fault could possibly be BL. I know ABD has had some mental health struggles but I'm pretty sure Guymer wanted to complete his Iron Hands trilogy, among other threequels we are waiting in

[Focslain]

7 minutes ago, sitnam said:

 

I think some of the fault could possibly be BL. I know ABD has had some mental health struggles but I'm pretty sure Guymer wanted to complete his Iron Hands trilogy, among other threequels we are waiting in

Granted that is different. The authors want to write those, which is good. It's assigning them that can (and usually does) cause a decline in quality. 

 

I can see BL wanting to sit on a publication if it would work in with an upcoming event. But hopefully not too long. 

[Emperor Ming]

Constant price hikes?

 

[darkhorse0607]

20 minutes ago, sitnam said:

 

I think some of the fault could possibly be BL. I know ABD has had some mental health struggles but I'm pretty sure Guymer wanted to complete his Iron Hands trilogy, among other threequels we are waiting in

 

You also had Josh Reynolds who was pretty solid but had such a bad time with BL editors during the Bile Trilogy he said he wouldn't write for BL again. 

 

So while I agree that you don't want to force people, BL is not faultless here with the drop in output

[techsoldaten]

I suspect the reason for sluggish sales are related to prices and the perception of getting what you pay for.

Was thinking of adding a couple Fellgor units to my Black Legion army. $67 on the webstore. Even with a discount from a FLGS, that's a lot for chaff. Occurred to me 3 boxes of them - 30 models - would get me a lot less than the Apocalypse boxed set at $250.

It's not necessarily that the prices are too high - that's a part of it. It's more that the prices are incoherent. Your options are buying a) a giant, heavy box of Space Marines with Orks you are never going to use at a low price per model, or b) a small box of inconsequential models that get shot off the table without doing much at around $6.50 per model. There's lots in-between those two extremes, but that describes a significant portion of the SKUs currently available.

Rules play a role in this. My last game of 40k was somewhat dissatisfying. The first 3 turns were semi-tactical, the last 2 turns were a rush to secure objectives for points on both sides. It made me think that 11th edition feels like 2 different games that don't always favor squad based tactical combat so much as points accumulation. This plays a role in price tolerance, from the standpoint of "what am I going to do with this thing I am paying for?" If the answer is "be useful as a screen for a turn or two until you are blown away," people are less likely to make that purchase. Likewise, if the answer is "I want half this box and plan to sell the rest on eBay for a significant discount" - there's a large number of people who will wait and get what they want off eBay because they can't use half of it. If the answer is "I want this unit as a late stage points capper that doesn't do anything tactically useful" - that's not related to my reasons for playing Warhammer. It's almost an auto-pass, I can get a proxy and print it at home.

So my take is recent GW sales performance reflects a general recognition of the limited utility of certain models relative to what consumers are being asked to pay, along with maybe hitting a ceiling on what people are willing to pay for certain items. I know there are people who just paint models and don't care about what they do on the tabletop, and I'm sure they have their own set of concerns. All I am talking about is the price confusion the current product line creates. 

[Valkyrion]

Governments world wide promoting the idea that we're in financial crisis, inflation, supply problems, and at least a superficial unhappiness with everyday life means folk spend less on things like this, or new kitchens, or new homes, or new cars, or new watches, or holidays.  It'll pass, or collapse. My money is on it passing. 

[TheWarmaster]

Lower prices. 
Have periodic ‘sales’ events. 
 

[Craig]

Bringing in new customers rather than relying on the current ones being an infinite revenue supply is the main one. GW need cheap (not GW cheap but pocket money cheap) entry point sets to bring new hobbyists in.

[SvenIronhand]

2 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Governments world wide promoting the idea that we're in financial crisis, inflation, supply problems, and at least a superficial unhappiness with everyday life means folk spend less on things like this, or new kitchens, or new homes, or new cars, or new watches, or holidays.  It'll pass, or collapse. My money is on it passing. 

Is it governments promoting that or that actually being the case? Luxury items like GW miniatures are just that — luxuries.

[Dark Shepherd]

3 hours ago, sitnam said:

 

I think some of the fault could possibly be BL. I know ABD has had some mental health struggles but I'm pretty sure Guymer wanted to complete his Iron Hands trilogy, among other threequels we are waiting in

Is Guymer a fulltime author yet?

 

I know Josh Reynolds, their best selling AOS author, left in 2020. Seems like he and David Annandale both write for Arkham.Horror now

 

Probably worthy of its own topic but feels like BL is losing its big names

 

Graham McNeil last book 2021. Dan Abnett writes for 47 different comic books. 

 

back to my own topic lol

 

MORE OLD WORLD FICTION

 

One sales boost I am loving is almost every single skirmish unit/game/box comes with a 4 legged.friend, and that aint by accident

 

And Jupiter H Centauri give Gaunts Ghosts Killteam rules

[Marshal Rohr]

There’s no price or rules incentive they’re going to offer, they didn’t even realize there were knights and Custodes without cross system rules at one point, or that Beastmen were in both Age of Sigmar and the Old World if some rumors are to be believed. The only way they grow sales is opening new LGS accounts. It’s not actually selling to customers. 

[Scribe]

6 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Share price is down, profit growth is slowing, how do they realistically improve sales?

 

Improve the game by removing the beta status, dramatically lower the nonsense cognitive load, and reduce the play time (including setup) to a few hours tops.

 

Like the game used to be, when adults could reasonably get their kids to bed and get a game in, instead of trying to line up an entire afternoon for a single game.

 

Because you know who has money? Adults.

 

3 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Governments world wide promoting the idea that we're in financial crisis, inflation, supply problems, and at least a superficial unhappiness with everyday life means folk spend less on things like this, or new kitchens, or new homes, or new cars, or new watches, or holidays.  It'll pass, or collapse. My money is on it passing. 

 

Promoting the idea? I mean have you....spent money lately and seen what things cost? Spoken with Realtor and Builders about what it costs? Checked in with any Painters?

 

Its not an 'idea' its a reality, depending on where you live and all that.

[SvenIronhand]

Another thing: don’t drop things like Crusade after an edition or so, as @ThePenitentOne can attest. Stuff like that majorly kills customer engagement and loyalty.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Bet a 15% price reduction would go a long way.

[Scribe]

Oh yeah, and besides fixing the game you know what else would be great?

 

Not browsing the site and seeing the vast majority of what you could want, Temp Out of Stock. Great for their bottom line, because they dont have stock taking up space, bad for the health of the game.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, Scribe said:

Oh yeah, and besides fixing the game you know what else would be great?

 

Not browsing the site and seeing the vast majority of what you could want, Temp Out of Stock. Great for their bottom line, because they dont have stock taking up space, bad for the health of the game.

I don’t really understand that mentality.

 

if your stock is ‘taking up space’ find a way to sell it. 
you can’t make any money selling things you don’t have. Especially without a back order function 

[Scribe]

45 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I don’t really understand that mentality.

 

if your stock is ‘taking up space’ find a way to sell it. 
you can’t make any money selling things you don’t have. Especially without a back order function 

 

Product in a warehouse, costs you money, it doesnt make you money. If they can sell 100% of what they make, and they are hitting their 70% profit margins, then its to them, all upside.

[Antarius]

How do they increase sales? I'm not sure they do.

I mean, one thing to keep in mind is that they're not necessarily selling less as much as they're not selling more than they used to (and of course, we don't even know that; share prices are not actually linked to performance and profit growth may be hampered by other factors than sales). Which can still be a problem for a listed company, of course.

I'd contend that the current situation is probably more that their sales/profits may have peaked, rather than that they're in decline (although from a corporate point of view that may be the same thing). Warhammer is much more mainstream than it used to be but whether it's the sort of hobby that can truly go mainstream is an open question. I've been quite amazed at how much it has grown over the last decade or so, but it's still a hobby that seems like it has a couple of inherent barriers to true mainstream status - at least to me, but then, I've been wrong before.

 

I don't know whether they've actually hit their sales ceiling, but I'd say that realistically there is a ceiling somewhere. Getting a TV show out there might improve sales, but even then, there must be a point where the people who might actually want to get into Warhammer are already into it and aren't realistically going to buy more (or buy the same at a higher price point). I'm not saying we're at that point - stuff like the Amazon show or more licensing might help or they might cook up something else that will - but maybe we're approaching it?

Edited Thursday at 03:58 AM by Antarius

[Lathe Biosas]

I have a solution in 2 words.

 

Godzilla crossover. 

 

 

[kabaakaba]

21 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I have a solution in 2 words.

 

Godzilla crossover. 

 

 

who would bite it if it's just Monday on Nocturn?

[techsoldaten]

22 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I have a solution in 2 words.

 

Godzilla crossover. 

 

 

All I see is a stumpy legged, scaly Squiggoth with no teef and eczema.
 

[Robbienw]

I don't think most people understand how share prices work.