Ender26x Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Geez, its been awhile since I've posted back on this forum (may the emperor bless these servers). Anyway, since B&C is back up I've decided to continue my work on my DIY Space Marine chapter, and boy has this chapter been through countless names, home planets, barges, and leaders... But I think I've finally settled on a nice, steady fluff for them, and I think I want to base them upon the geneseed of Rogal Dorn and his Imperial Fists....one problem, there seems to be no more foundings past those of the Crimson Fists and the Iron Hands from the Imperial Fists...so am I stuck with overused Gulliman? Emperor help me! My yellow and black marines deserve decendence from the best primarch of them all! Anyway, here's a basic scheme of what I would like my marines to be like ++Founding++ As mentioned above, I hope Imperial Fists! ++Traits and background++ **Founding number unknown** (need an opinion on which founding to go with?) ++Home Planet++ Following the tradition of a space faring chapter, the Chapter Fortress is actually built upon an asteriod floating freely in the Segmentum Solar. From this asteriod is docked numerous battleships, and the chapter's battle barge, The Scythe. During the periods between campaigns, The Scythe is sent to the planet Mungar, a hive world often mistaken to the the homeworld of the chapter because of the incredible cultural influence the chapter has upon them. ++The First Chapter Master++ It is whispered among the ranks that Brother-Lord Andronicus had long ago fought in the defense of Terra during the Horus Heresy, witnessing the fall of Horus' s barge himself. And while seeing the barge crash to a ground, he had a vision of his future chapter once again defending Terra from an unknown evil. But these rumors have never been backed up with any real evidence that Brother-Lord Andronicus actually defended Terra, but no one within the chapter has ever denied the tale. The current chapter master, Brother-Lord Dominic, dons the very terminator armor and carries the same sword used by Andronicus while on Terra. ++Combat Doctrine++ As with the Imperial Fists, the chapter tends to show little recognition of the word "retreat". But unlike the Imperial Fists, the chapter performs much more shock troop assualts, basing most of its operations on extremely fast, hard hitting drop pod assualts. If the operation demands a longer stay of the chapter's forces, then the chapter's heavy hitters are brought out, which includes 30 whirlwind artillery tanks and 15 land raiders and other assorted tanks. How the chapter came into possesion of so many tanks is unclear (still working on fluff for this). The chapter is known to fight alongside the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands most often in joint operations with their brethern. Still more to add! Until next time... -ender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Absolutely nothing wrong with using the Imperial Fists (well, Dorn) as the genetic primogenitors of your Chapter. Just make sure to make them of the Third Founding or later, and no-one can fault your choice. ...Just browsing... Nice to see a Chapter that uses the Segmentum Solar as the base of operations. Most Chapters seem to fling themselves out to the futherest (sp) reaches of space, but there's nothing against plonking your Chapter in the middle of the Imperium. Be aware, though, that nearly all (habitable) planets within the Segmentum Solar would be heavily populated, and have most of their natural resource stripped long ago. They would also have been the first human colonies both founded and re-discoved by the Great Crusade, so those aspects could have a bearing on your Chapter. Hmm. The placement of Andronicus suggests that 'his future Chapter' would of have to been a Second Fouding, which generally means a no-no. He could of fought on Terra, sure, but he'd have to be alive for quite a while after it to participate in the Third Founding, which could of happened anywhere from a few decades to a few millenia after the Heresy. The heavy use of tanks/whatever is actually rather nicely solved by being in the Segmentum Solar - centre of the Imperium, with many Forge Worlds and materials being shipped to-and-fro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space wolf Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 He could of fought on Terra, sure, but he'd have to be alive for quite a while after it to participate in the Third Founding, which could of happened anywhere from a few decades to a few millenia after the Heresy perhaps he was a simple tach marine or a scout, during the heresy, then after many more campaigns was promoted, then chosen to take over a new chapter. maybe the sword and armor used by the current chapter master did belong to andronicus, but were made for him later than the heresy. however, since his legend is so strong within the chapter, they may believe that he played a bigger role than was actually true...noone can prove otherwise :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender26x Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Thanks for the replies guys, as concerning some things... As for Andronicus, I feel as though I should make both the true story of the chapter master and the story believed by the chapter...The truth being that the Andronicus that founded the chapter was a clone of a prominant Imperial Fists officer that was present during the final battle for Terra, who witnessed the fall of Horus' battle barge. Of course, the chapter believes that it was the same man. Sort of like the 3rd grade hamster who never died >_> As for the Terminator and Sword? Let me think... The chapter needs a fist or hand related name too! Oh, what shall I name them? -ender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I'm pretty sure cloning Marines is a big no-no. Same deal as robots during the Heresy, I believe. You could have the role of Andronicus as a sort of Emperor's Champion. You now, a sort of eternal Champion. A role assumed by whoever and weilds the armour and weapons of the original Andronicus, including the name, and when he falls another takes his place? You could say that Andronicus was a Captain (or perhaps even, Lord Commander) of the Imperial Fists Legion that walked alongside Sigusmund on Holy Terra, seeking out the Champions of Chaos. Sigusmund buggers off to the far corners of the galaxy whilst Andronicus stays with the Imperial Fists, still taking out enemy Champions for the Dorn. Thrid Founding (or later) comes along, another Chapter is founded from the Imperial Fists, and they're granted the Armour of Andronicus as a Chapter relic or something. Chapter Master dons the armour, announces taht his Chapter will forever follow the example of Andronicus, and thus the tradition starts. Just some ideas. Oh, and a name? Hmmm. Something with Glove? Iron Gloves, Mailed Fists, Fists of Dorn, Hands Of Andronicus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 As Dasleah said, there's no problems with using Rogal Dorn's gene-seed. It's a very common choice - but there's nothing wrong with that. If you like Dorn as a primarch and he provides you with inspiration, absolutely use the gene-seed of the Imperial Fists. With regards to the founding, you generally have a choice. You have twenty-six foundings. The first two are detailed, the 13th and 21st are generally avoided. The earlier the number, the better-equipped your chapter (generally). The closer their link to the primarchs, also. Some of these early chapters were around whilst the primarchs were still alive. For some of the later ones, the heresy is almost a distant legend. The heresy happened in 013.M31, with the third founding taking place on 001.M32. That's nine hundred and eighty-eight years between the two. Perhaps Andronicus didn't fight on Terra during the Heresy. I would perhaps remove the link to the Iron Hands - the Iron Hands are noted to be reclusive and distrustful. They believe the flesh is weak. More to the point, they even believe other Space Marine chapters are too weak to adequately protect the Imperium. (After all, the Salamanders and Raven Guard let them down at Istvaan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rymeer Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 As Dasleah said, there's no problems with using Rogal Dorn's gene-seed. It's a very common choice - but there's nothing wrong with that. If you like Dorn as a primarch and he provides you with inspiration, absolutely use the gene-seed of the Imperial Fists. With regards to the founding, you generally have a choice. You have twenty-six foundings. The first two are detailed, the 13th and 21st are generally avoided. The earlier the number, the better-equipped your chapter (generally). The closer their link to the primarchs, also. Some of these early chapters were around whilst the primarchs were still alive. For some of the later ones, the heresy is almost a distant legend. The heresy happened in 013.M31, with the third founding taking place on 001.M32. That's nine hundred and eighty-eight years between the two. Perhaps Andronicus didn't fight on Terra during the Heresy. I would perhaps remove the link to the Iron Hands - the Iron Hands are noted to be reclusive and distrustful. They believe the flesh is weak. More to the point, they even believe other Space Marine chapters are too weak to adequately protect the Imperium. (After all, the Salamanders and Raven Guard let them down at Istvaan). In addition to the Commisar's good points, I'd like to add that a minor change makes the chapter seem more 'human'... instead of Iron Hands... how about UltraMarines? As for the person of Andronicus being ON terra during the Heresy, I don't see why not, but I do see the Commisar's point about the time period... again, perhaps the passing of the armor and weapons of Andronicus got started as a way to honor the first wearer due to extreme feats of honor and sacrifice. Thus engendering the tradition of whomever wears the armor and weilds the weapons, taking on the name-title of Andronicus. Perhaps, 3rd founding or later, the current holder of the 'title' of Andronicus is chosen to be one of thea veteran 'seed' marines for a new chapter, which becomes the founding for the chapter you want. As for a chapter name? I'd tend to want to stay away from anything that might be seen as putting Andronicus up with the Primarchs or the Emperor. Thus, 'Hands of Andronicus' would be a no-no to me. With their Imperial Fists gene-seed... I'd concider other names with 'fist', 'hand', 'glove', 'gauntlet', etc. One of my friends keeps joking that since he's a big fan of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that he should make up a SM chapter named: 'The Imperial Foot'. :lol: I HOPE he's kidding. Keep at it. This has possibilities. Rymeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jibreel Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I dont see why theres a problem with the age isnt Commander Dante of the Blood Angels over 1000. I agree with other people though the Iron Hands arent very good allies. Still sounds good so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 The chapter could have some very long-lived individuals - after all, Grimnar is a pretty old wolf - he was leading a Great Company at the 1st Battle of Armageddon... And Dante is the longest serving commander of the Astartes, having led the Blood Angels a lot longer than 900 years. So yes, it is possible that you commander was an officer in the Legion (maybe 1st company hence with Terminator armour?), became a Captain in the 2nd Founding - perhaps in the Fists chapter, and then was part opf the core who led the new chapter in the third. He might have been gifted with long-lifge, and never having been beaten, he might have become a living legend, and the senior officers of the chapter decided for morale (both that of themselves and their enemies..) the legend couldn't be allowed to die, thus there is like an Eternal Champion of the chapter who is named Andronicus, only the chapter know any different and they ain't gonna tell.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 You have to consider that both the Space Wolves and Blood Angels have special gene-seed. The Blood Angels are noted as having been particularly long-lived. But Cassius, the oldest Ultramarine, is said to be four centuries old. Assume he was a scout in his first year of service to the Imperial Fists during the Heresy. Nine hundred and eighty-eight years later, he's chapter master. How long would he serve for before dropping dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 There has been some implication that the marines of the Crusafe and the Heresy are "uber" in some way - certainly it would not be unreasonable to assume that these marines might have lived to a millenium had they not died in battle.... Or perhaps the geneseed implantation screwed up somehow, and made something "better" than the average marine? Perhaps some strange artefact that the EMperor gifted the fella from the Crusade was the reason for his longevity? It can be a viable alternative - anything can be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Pull a Gulliaman. ... Erm, have him held in statis with wounds that are too grevious to heal, even if placed within a Dreadnaught. Have him having fought on Terra, and part of what little forces the Imperium could muster to persue the forces of Chaos after their retreat. Big explosion, everyone's assumed dead. Third Founding comes along, and Imperial Fists-based Chapter flies to the Eye, in a sort of psuedo Praeus Astartes way (Chapters founded to watch the Eye of Terror) and BAM! They find an old Imperial Fist in statis. With what they can recover from the scattered remains of his ship, they deduce he's a hero, and thus continue their Chapter in his honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 The obvious answer would be for Andronicus to be in suspended animation via his Sus-an Membrane, but as he's an Imperial Fist, he doesn't have that organ. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 It is possible that the Imperial Fists lost the sus-an membrane over time at the Heresy and jusrt after, most chapter woudl have had fully functioning organs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 But there's nothing concrete to back that up other than supposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 But there's nothing concrete to back that up other than supposition. He could get ''lost in the warp'' :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 The Imp Fists are commonly stated as having "lost that ability", probaby some time after the Heresy but before the second fouding (unless the loss of the sus'an and betcher's are coincidental in CF, IF and BT and successors due to some convergent idiosyncracy in their ethics, operating procedures or defective seed), and thus could feasibly have one. And given that the longest recorded sus-an is approx 540 years (a Dark Angel) then this particular captai could have been in susan since just after the Heresy during say a moping up execise, is discovered by an Imperial Patrol, and in the Second Founding is made a Chapter Master.. Com. Molotov: Your quote :P Link to post about geneseed mutations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 But it's not stated when the Dorn gene-seed lost the use of the Sus-An Membrane or the Betcher's Gland. Therefore you're taking liberties with the fluff by saying that an Imperial Fist marine after the heresy could have his Sus-An Membrane, because we don't know if the Imperial Fists did. That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I'm sure that it must be standard issue for all high-ranking Imperial Adepts to have statis fields installed within their escape-pods or rescue boats? The Apothecarian surely has mobile statis units for transporting those indented for internment into Dreadnaught shells? Perhaps the fighting became extremely intense and they were forced to make an emergency landing planetside, along with a few Chaos hulks. Set up a small base of operations with what little supplies they could, but are ultimately over-run after loosing Andronicous (suffering massive injuries in the first wave of Chaos attacks, and being placed within statis, presuming that rescurers are on their way) Being in statis means he'd be pretty damn invunverable to direct psychic detection and intrusion, so as long as they found a nice big cave to hid him in, he should be fine and not found. New Chapter founded, goes to cleanse that world of the (surviving) Chaos Cults, finds ol' Andro, but are unable to remove him from statis ... erm, because it's more tragic that way? :huh: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 All this discussion means there is a problem or it's too complicated to work reasonably. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 No, all this discussion just means we're all a bunch of nit-picking gits :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Dasleah has me there :cuss Yep , we're getting a little engrossed. If you want some form of "Eternal Champion" for your chapter - so be it. Perhaps the armour is special, maybe (Hush, hereticl thoughts comin) it acts in a similar, albeit weaker, way to the Eldar Aspect armour of an Exarch, reatining a small part of the consciousness of the wearer. perhaps the armour itself is a little like Superman - never seen on the battlefield at the same time as the commander.... If you have ever read "Magic Kingdom for Sale!" then you will see paralles with the Paladin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hmm. The thing that sprung to mind there was Lucius' armour (that slowly turns whoever killed Lucius into him) but that's a bit too much Chaos to fit into a Loyalist Chapter. Perhaps 'Andronicous' could be a Dreadnought? They keep the same name, regardless of whoever's interned within them. Perhaps you could write that, through whatever crule fate befell them, every Chapter Master since the Chapter's Founding has ended up inside that same Dread shell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I was thinking that the armour has a complex cogitation device that somehow "transposes" the memories and knoweldge of it's weareres over time. It's certainly possible, perhaps the armour "samples" the brain tissues of the marine wearing it a little like a marine can read memory engrams from brain tissue. that way the commander gains teh benefits of his predeccesors, but over time, he loses his own personality, becoming the strongest part of a gestalt personilty occupied by the suit... That sort of stuff might be "dark age" tech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Ah! I know! Memory implants are standard within many members of the Cult Mechanicus, allowing for a digital record of their cognitive experiences. Presuming some sort of unified file format, you could in theory transfer one set of recorded memories into another implant, thus gaining more expreience from those recorded memories. Perhaps these implants are standard issue for all higher-level Marines, and the implant present within the Chapter Master is dominated by the first Marine's memories - Andronicus. Of course, transfering memories from Marine to Marine, over the generations and countless successions, would result in some corruption and degredation of the memories, not to mention remembering something that you did 3 lifetimes ago would be confusing, so perhaps the 'Andronicus' memories are displayed as the dominant personaility within the implant, giving them all a sort of guiding voice across generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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